It's Time To End Costly, Unfair Marijuana Prohibition

SoulManX

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] WASHINGTON -- News that Al Gore's 24-year-old son, Al Gore III, was busted for pot and assorted prescription pills last week unleashed a torrent of mirth in certain quarters.

Gore-phobes on the Internet apparently view the son's arrest and incarceration as comeuppance for the father's shortcomings. Especially rich was the fact that young Al was driving a Toyota Prius when he was pulled over for going 100 mph - just as Papa Gore was set to preside over concerts during a seven-continent Live Earth celebration to raise awareness about global warming.

Whatever one may feel about the former vice president's environmental obsessions, his son's problems are no one's cause for celebration. The younger Mr. Gore's high-profile arrest does, however, offer Americans an opportunity to get real about drug prohibition, and especially about marijuana laws.

For the record, I have no interest in marijuana except as a public policy matter. My personal drug of choice is a heavenly elixir made from crushed grapes. Tasty, attractive and highly ritualized in our culture, wine and other alcoholic beverages are approved for responsible use despite the fact that alcoholism and attendant problems are a plague, while responsible use of a weed that, at worst, makes people boring and hungry is criminal. Pot smokers might revolt if they weren't so mellow.

Efforts over the past few decades to relax marijuana laws have been moderately successful. Twelve states have decriminalized marijuana, which usually means no prison or criminal record for first-time possession of small amounts for personal use.

Yet even now, federal law enforcement agents raid the homes of terminally ill patients who use marijuana for relief from suffering in states where medical marijuana use is permitted.

Beyond the medical issue is the practical question of criminalizing otherwise good citizens for consuming a nontoxic substance - described by the British medical journal Lancet as less harmful to health than alcohol or tobacco - at great economic and social cost. Each year, more than 700,000 people are arrested for marijuana-related offenses at a cost of more than $7 billion, according to the Marijuana Policy Project.

If marijuana were legalized, regulated and taxed at the rates applied to alcohol and tobacco, revenues would reach about $6.2 billion annually, according to an open letter signed by 500 economists who urged President Bush and other public officials to debate marijuana prohibition. Among those economists were three Nobel Prize winners, including the late Milton Friedman of Stanford's Hoover Institution.

Mr. Friedman and others were acting in response to a 2005 report on the budgetary implications of marijuana prohibition by Jeffrey Miron, visiting professor of economics at Harvard. By Mr. Miron's estimate, regulating marijuana would save about $7.7 billion annually in government prohibition enforcement - $2.4 billion at the federal level and $5.3 billion at the state and local levels.

Add to that amount income taxes that would have to be paid by marijuana producers. Drug dealers don't pay taxes, after all. Nor do they concern themselves much with rules of the workplace and worker welfare.

Mr. Miron argues that legalizing marijuana would not increase use because decriminalization hasn't increased use. But, he says, legalization would reduce crime by neutralizing dealers and eliminating the violent black market.

Legalizing marijuana isn't an endorsement of underage or irresponsible use. Best would be that everyone deal with life unmedicated, but adults arguably have a right to amuse themselves in ways that don't harm others.

While some may balk at the idea of legalized pot, it seems clear that some remedy is in order. At the very least, a fresh debate free of politics and bureaucratic self-interest is overdue. Maybe Al Gore could moderate.

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v07/n822/a06.htm
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The problem is most "activists" for pot are the most annoying self centered hippies on the planet. If we could get just one politician that's not crazy to just admit they do (most polls show about 30% of americans smoke) and then go into the actual history of why pot is illegal (Pfizer did it to promote plastics) along with a few facts about its actual health effects it would be legal tomorrow.
 
The problem is most "activists" for pot are the most annoying self centered hippies on the planet. If we could get just one politician that's not crazy to just admit they do (most polls show about 30% of americans smoke) and then go into the actual history of why pot is illegal (Pfizer did it to promote plastics) along with a few facts about its actual health effects it would be legal tomorrow.

Hmmm...
 
As a police officer I have mixed opinions on legal drug usage, especially when it comes to those drugs that have dependency issues; however I feel Marijuana could be legalized but only with controls and limitations in-place; similar to those of alcohol. Controls and limitations like purchase age, locations of usage, etc.

It's naive to say Marijuana has no effect other than causing boredom and hunger; like alochol it's been scientifically/medically proven to reduce reaction time and congnitive skills, so legalized or not, employers should have the absolute right to deny or terminate employment of those people that choose to come to work under the influence. Not just employers of heavy machinery, etc.; even those in administrative or food service...would you want someone who was high and in a "mellow" mood messing with your bank account or credit card info? What about the deep frier guy whose not too concerned if your two piece checken meal falls to the floor before it's passed to the front. Additionally, DUI should be continue to be enforced as it is with regards to drugs other than alcohol.

Again, I don't think legalizing weed is a terrible idea, it just needs to have alot of thought put into it about how it would be done.
 
As a police officer I have mixed opinions on legal drug usage, especially when it comes to those drugs that have dependency issues; however I feel Marijuana could be legalized but only with controls and limitations in-place; similar to those of alcohol. Controls and limitations like purchase age, locations of usage, etc.

It's naive to say Marijuana has no effect other than causing boredom and hunger; like alochol it's been scientifically/medically proven to reduce reaction time and congnitive skills, so legalized or not, employers should have the absolute right to deny or terminate employment of those people that choose to come to work under the influence. Not just employers of heavy machinery, etc.; even those in administrative or food service...would you want someone who was high and in a "mellow" mood messing with your bank account or credit card info? What about the deep frier guy whose not too concerned if your two piece checken meal falls to the floor before it's passed to the front. Additionally, DUI should be continue to be enforced as it is with regards to drugs other than alcohol.

Again, I don't think legalizing weed is a terrible idea, it just needs to have alot of thought put into it about how it would be done.

So you're saying make it like alcohol? That's not that hard or needing of that much foresight. Hell it's far easier for an underage kid to buy a joint than a pack of cigs (least it was when I was underage).

Anyone coming into work high or drunk should have to face the consequences I agree.

Basically sell them like cigs and impose laws like alcohol laws on them, tax them and there you go. Cig. companies already have fields and names ready for this that they've been storing for years.
 
Oh god, most of the posts so far are completely open minded...... that means the ridiculous anti-pot ppl are on their way to make posts like "psshht weed is for stupid ppl who livez in their moms basement LoLz1!!"
 
So you're saying make it like alcohol? That's not that hard or needing of that much foresight. Hell it's far easier for an underage kid to buy a joint than a pack of cigs (least it was when I was underage).

Anyone coming into work high or drunk should have to face the consequences I agree.

Basically sell them like cigs and impose laws like alcohol laws on them, tax them and there you go. Cig. companies already have fields and names ready for this that they've been storing for years.
I generally agree. I think it'd be made much more difficult than it needs to be, but the fact is our politicians would make it that way, probably because of some lobbyists like Fred Thompson.
 
So you're saying make it like alcohol? That's not that hard or needing of that much foresight. Hell it's far easier for an underage kid to buy a joint than a pack of cigs (least it was when I was underage).

Anyone coming into work high or drunk should have to face the consequences I agree.

Basically sell them like cigs and impose laws like alcohol laws on them, tax them and there you go. Cig. companies already have fields and names ready for this that they've been storing for years.
You would also IMO have to make it so they can only be smoked in very specific places. If they are smoked at any bar, then unlike alcohol people can get a second-hand high off of it without touching any, and unlike cigarrettes it is much more immediate. Sure, I doubt second hand high would really affect someone, but all you need is for someone to be drunk and around weed, get into a car accident, and then blame it on second hand smoke and the whole thing gets screwed up.
 
You would also IMO have to make it so they can only be smoked in very specific places. If they are smoked at any bar, then unlike alcohol people can get a second-hand high off of it without touching any, and unlike cigarrettes it is much more immediate. Sure, I doubt second hand high would really affect someone, but all you need is for someone to be drunk and around weed, get into a car accident, and then blame it on second hand smoke and the whole thing gets screwed up.
Yeah, if weed is made legal at some point it will never be a public thing exept maby at specific cafes, there would be too many people complaining about children being exposed to second-hand smoke...
 
So you're saying make it like alcohol? That's not that hard or needing of that much foresight. Hell it's far easier for an underage kid to buy a joint than a pack of cigs (least it was when I was underage).

Anyone coming into work high or drunk should have to face the consequences I agree.

Basically sell them like cigs and impose laws like alcohol laws on them, tax them and there you go. Cig. companies already have fields and names ready for this that they've been storing for years.

I think that's a bit of a stretch but depending on where you're from...maybe so. As for the forethought required, because of the stigma associated with "drug use", I believe it would have to be gradually introduced over an extended period of time and only in limited venues. My initial thought is for it to only be sold from medical institutions... they're plentiful, have built-in security precautions for storage and distribution, medical professionals on-hand, etc.
 
You would also IMO have to make it so they can only be smoked in very specific places. If they are smoked at any bar, then unlike alcohol people can get a second-hand high off of it without touching any, and unlike cigarrettes it is much more immediate. Sure, I doubt second hand high would really affect someone, but all you need is for someone to be drunk and around weed, get into a car accident, and then blame it on second hand smoke and the whole thing gets screwed up.

Definately about predetermined places. But now cigs are becoming so banned it wouldn't be hard to make pot smoking something that could only be done at home or in special destinations (special smoking bars would be hella cool)

There are dangers, but alcohol causes an insane amout of accidents so it's not like we haven't dealt with it before. Actually they did a study in Amsterdam with the effects of getting high. While it did reduce motor speed they found that people concentrated more on driving because of it. Net result? People drove the same. I know this was only one study (and a very funny one to watch, it was on the learning channel) but I'd like to see actual unbiased studies be done on the effects, dangers and benefits (I volunteer myself for this).
 
Oh god, most of the posts so far are completely open minded...... that means the ridiculous anti-pot ppl are on their way to make posts like "psshht weed is for stupid ppl who livez in their moms basement LoLz1!!"

hell, I used to be one of those people...I guess from having two little girls I've learned to "pick-my-battles" a little better.
 
I think that's a bit of a stretch but depending on where you're from...maybe so. As for the forethought required, because of the stigma associated with "drug use", I believe it would have to be gradually introduced over an extended period of time and only in limited venues. My initial thought is for it to only be sold from medical institutions... they're plentiful, have built-in security precautions for storage and distribution, medical professionals on-hand, etc.

I was able to by joints from almost anyone on my block, but cigs were damn near impossible. Everyone thought you might be an underage kid participating in one of those ATF stings.

Pot is far less dangerous than alcohol (or cigs in health matters). It doesn't really need to be introduced slowly, it used to be legal in america. Hell Pfizer made up the name Marijuana strictly because its marketing people thought the name made it more nefarious. Before that it was just called hemp.
 
Definately about predetermined places. But now cigs are becoming so banned it wouldn't be hard to make pot smoking something that could only be done at home or in special destinations (special smoking bars would be hella cool)

There are dangers, but alcohol causes an insane amout of accidents so it's not like we haven't dealt with it before. Actually they did a study in Amsterdam with the effects of getting high. While it did reduce motor speed they found that people concentrated more on driving because of it. Net result? People drove the same. I know this was only one study (and a very funny one to watch, it was on the learning channel) but I'd like to see actual unbiased studies be done on the effects, dangers and benefits (I volunteer myself for this).

I've been involved in hundreds of DUI cases where the probable cause I had to stop someone was because they were concentrating so hard on staying between the lines and not missing any street signs, that they didn't realize they were doing 20 or 30 below the posted limit. They're typically the funny ones. :woot:

Far too often that added concentration tunes out everything else.
 
I was able to by joints from almost anyone on my block, but cigs were damn near impossible. Everyone thought you might be an underage kid participating in one of those ATF stings.

Pot is far less dangerous than alcohol (or cigs in health matters). It doesn't really need to be introduced slowly, it used to be legal in america. Hell Pfizer made up the name Marijuana strictly because its marketing people thought the name made it more nefarious. Before that it was just called hemp.

Anything that impairs you is dangerous if used without reasonable control. I'm not saying pot is addictive, whereas I know cigs are, but if used responsibly I agree it could be legalized. I'll just agree to disagree with you about the speed with which it's introduced though. :oldrazz:
 
Anything that impairs you is dangerous if used without reasonable control. I'm not saying pot is addictive, whereas I know cigs are, but if used responsibly I agree it could be legalized. I'll just agree to disagree with you about the speed with which it's introduced though. :oldrazz:

But we can extend that argument to include cell phones, a radio, and other people in the car. All have been shown to greatly increase your chances of getting into a wreck.

The careful way is probably better, I just feel it unnecessary if the truth comes out about why it was banned to begin with.
 
But we can extend that argument to include cell phones, a radio, and other people in the car. All have been shown to greatly increase your chances of getting into a wreck.

The careful way is probably better, I just feel it unnecessary if the truth comes out about why it was banned to begin with.

You'll get no argument from me about cell phones and I've often wanted my wife and kids to shut the hell up while we're on trips. There's only so many times you can hear "are we there yet", "I have to go potty", "I'm hungry" or "are you sure this is the right way" before you want to drive off a cliff. :cmad:
 
You'll get no argument from me about cell phones and I've often wanted my wife and kids to shut the hell up while we're on trips. There's only so many times you can hear "are we there yet", "I have to go potty", "I'm hungry" or "are you sure this is the right way" before you want to drive off a cliff. :cmad:

See if you got them all high on pot before hand it'd go easier for you. They'd stare out the window and a couple bags of chips would keep them occupied.

"are you sure this is the right way" definately wins for most annoying.
 
they should never legilize weed..I can't stand the smell.
 
See if you got them all high on pot before hand it'd go easier for you. They'd stare out the window and a couple bags of chips would keep them occupied.

"are you sure this is the right way" definately wins for most annoying.

LMAO. :woot:
 
how can people compare second hand smoke with cigs to weed? its nowhere near the same, or exactly the same depending on the person, let me explain. i do not smoke cigs and when im in a bar or something and someones smoking near me i get a bit lightheaded (if i focus on it, because inhaling second hand smoke, enough to get a buzz, off weed or cigs is quite hard) because im not used to it. its the same way vice versa for people who dont smoke weed.

but anyway...

you really need to ask yourselves... are you ready to destroy the taboo that is marijuana? or is it still going to have a stigma? are people who smoke weed going to be looked down upon even more because they can do it more publicly?

its too hard to legalize, say thanks to GW for throwing another anti drug king in the judicial system, so until they all die off and are replaced, we are stuck twiddling our thumbs arguing on message boards.
 
Oh god, most of the posts so far are completely open minded...... that means the ridiculous anti-pot ppl are on their way to make posts like "psshht weed is for stupid ppl who livez in their moms basement LoLz1!!"

it usually ends up like that...
 

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