James Bond: 007 - Spectre

[Tacit Ronin]

Hard to believe that a bond movie would become an anticipated thing.

Skyfall propelled it into bigger leagues

Before the movies made a decent amount of money then faded away like in 80s

Bond lost a lot of popularity after the Golden era of Connery. Both Goldfinger and Thunderball were BO and cultural phenomenons.

 

[Loki882]

Which is ironic as OHMSS is MUCH better than either Thunderball or YOLT.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Craig's Bond seems like he leans more towards the practical side. In Skyfall, he upgrades his weapons during the final battle as soon as he can, and he seems very pragmatic in fight scenes (hence why I like them so much, they're down and dirty). The DB5 coming back works because you can easily pass it off as fixing up old cars is a hobby of his or something.

the DB5 made also sense in that due to his low tech he was untraceable. modern cars are very easy to find once you hack navigation satellites (which Silva presumably had) since so many electronic gadgets are in constant conversation with satellites and stuff

 

[The Batman]

Moonraker was one of the biggest movies of 1979, but yeah, In the Connery era, Bond was basically the 60's version of Star Wars or TDK

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Which is ironic as OHMSS is MUCH better than either Thunderball or YOLT.

OHMSS had no chance at being a hit. Lazenby was being venomously hated before the film even came out.

 

[regwec]

I honestly don't see what's wrong with him still using the PPK. I'm no gun expert but neither are most people watching these films.

One already believes Bond a deadly shot, therefore is able to make just about any gun effective against somebody. People don't really correlate deadliness with functionality on film, because on screen, it's about how the characters use the gun or the pre-existing knowledge of the character's skilled background. Bond being a prime example. It's really not much of a stretch for him to still use it. If you want to increase its deadliness, you can stretch the believably of it a little bit. But I imagine that's more in Bond's skill rather than its firing power. Unless he's thrown in a situation where clearly a PPK is outmatched, then he will use a better weapon which we've seen already.

So pretty much, it's never really been much of an issue. The only way it can be unless the firing power is explained, then you get into that technical territory where one may have to reconcile those details.

I broadly agree, I just wanted to sound out whether the PPK is really an antique or the sort of thing that a bloody-minded traditionalist like Bond might insist on using despite better advice.

I actually quite like the notion of him using a relatively under-powered gun. It underlines his vulnerability as he enters the lions' den again and again. I recall the scene (I think) in the LALD novel, where he is involved in shootout in an aquarium, and he realises that his little Beretta can't get him out of trouble.

 

[The Shape]

I love the PPK. I'd be happy if it continued to make appearances with Bond, even if only for brief moments.

 

[Chesterfield]

OHMSS had no chance at being a hit. Lazenby was being venomously hated before the film even came out.

Craig suffered the same thing with CR but look at how that turned out. Interestingly enough, CR and OHMSS are two of the best entries in the series and OHMSS was a hit btw.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I broadly agree, I just wanted to sound out whether the PPK is really an antique or the sort of thing that a bloody-minded traditionalist like Bond might insist on using despite better advice.

I actually quite like the notion of him using a relatively under-powered gun. It underlines his vulnerability as he enters the lions' den again and again. I recall the scene (I think) in the LALD novel, where he is involved in shootout in an aquarium, and he realises that his little Beretta can't get him out of trouble.

In terms of the source material, you would know better than me. But I assume it comes from the traditional side of the books where the films have adopted this tradition to the character of who Bond is, who is very much a man of habit. Not aimed at you, but for people to question all of this after 23 movies is unnecessary. Plus, the less extent of weapons the better, because it utilizes Bond's ingenuity. I really loved the balance of Skyfall. But they seem they are going to push things more. As Mendes mentioned about the Aston Martin. "It will do things."

Just a prediction of another topic, perhaps Bond once worked for SPECTRE in the past that is mentioned in the synopsis. Unknowingly or not, I have a feeling Blofeld is greatly connected to that past.

The more I think about this, the more exciting it gets. They have a great opportunity after Skyfall which was the perfect getting back on track. Giving us classic Bond but also pushing the envelope even further. But I still want to hold off on stating that they seem to be getting a better understanding of how this franchise is working. The handling of this franchise has been at best uneven over the past 20 years. It will be more clear when this movie comes out.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Craig suffered the same thing with CR but look at how that turned out.

nevertheless, Craig had the benefit of a precedence of a new actor assuming the role every so often. Lazenby was the sacrificial lamb of that precedence to work in the first place. Nobody knew Bond would be as far stretching as it is now. Back in Lazenby's time, his usurping of the Bond throne was tantamount to treason of the whole franchise. He simply wasn't accepted.

 

[Doctor Jones]

What is all this newfound appreciation of OHMSS? OHMSS simply cannot be considered great because of Lazenby. You cannot have a good Bond film without the right actor playing Bond. The story and execution was very well done, but in the end I just don't care because his performance as Bond was just so damn dull. You go from Sean Connery who is brimming with swagger and charm to as flat and plain as a cracker Lazenby.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I thought he was decent. With ample potential to grow into the role with more experience. He certainly nailed the last scene.

 

[regwec]

There is an understandable desire to rehabilitate Lazenby, but I think the reality lies somewhere between the derision that first met him and the subsequent revision. He was good in the action sequences, but (for me) brought very little spark or charisma. He could have been worse, but I have no hesitation in calling him the "least best" Bond.

 

[Gold Samurai]

the DB5 made also sense in that due to his low tech he was untraceable. modern cars are very easy to find once you hack navigation satellites (which Silva presumably had) since so many electronic gadgets are in constant conversation with satellites and stuff

Which when you say it that way makes no sense.


Bond WANTED Silva to come to Scotland. Bond wanted Silva on his playing field and on his terms

A car with GPS would have been ideal for baiting the mouse to the trap.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Which when you say it that way makes no sense.


Bond WANTED Silva to come to Scotland. Bond wanted Silva on his playing field and on his terms

A car with GPS would have been ideal for baiting the mouse to the trap.

but then Tanner and Q would have nothing to do

 

[regwec]

I suppose GPS might have given the baddies an opportunity to intercept Bond and M on their way, which would have been bad.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

There is an understandable desire to rehabilitate Lazenby, but I think the reality lies somewhere between the derision that first met him and the subsequent revision. He was good in the action sequences, but (for me) brought very little spark or charisma. He could have been worse, but I have no hesitation in calling him the "least best" Bond.

He is very forgettable, and I thought he sucked a lot of the promise of OHMSS out of it by being uncharismatic and very un-Bond. The fourth wall quips didn't help either.

It's noble to try and review that film in a more modern light, but I still consider it an absolute dud, especially from the leading man

 

[DKDetective]

I broadly agree, I just wanted to sound out whether the PPK is really an antique or the sort of thing that a bloody-minded traditionalist like Bond might insist on using despite better advice.

I actually quite like the notion of him using a relatively under-powered gun. It underlines his vulnerability as he enters the lions' den again and again. I recall the scene (I think) in the LALD novel, where he is involved in shootout in an aquarium, and he realises that his little Beretta can't get him out of trouble.

Yeah, it does suit the character. You also reminded me of the scene in Dr. No (both film and book) where Bond is so reluctant to give up his little wimpy Beretta despite its repeated failures. Which reminds me... I think the solution to the concern over Bond having an old, underpowered gun is solved by having Bond carry two weapons as Fleming wrote in the books. He had the PPK as his constant carry, light concealed weapon and also a heavier pistol in his car for when he knew he was going to get into trouble. I think Fleming gave him a big, heavy Colt or Smith&Wesson revolver for that.

 

[jmc]

I think Lazenby's problem was that he wasn't an actor and he was locked into playing Sean's Bond not his own. When Moore took over it was more or less a quasi-reboot, infact you could make the argument it was the first reboot of any kind on film, and has been done with every new Bond since.

 

[DKDetective]

I think Lazenby's problem was that he wasn't an actor and he was locked into playing Sean's Bond not his own. When Moore took over it was more or less a quasi-reboot, infact you could make the argument it was the first reboot of any kind on film, and has been done with every new Bond since.

That's a really good point. When Moore was first hired for LALD, they really overhauled the portrayal of the character to establish it as something new and different from the past iteration in order to avoid the Lazenby-type comparisons. More's Bond started out wearing double-breasted suits and smoking cigars as a way to visually distinguish him from Connery's. I think they gave the vodka martini a rest for a while as well.

 

[Venomfan]

people wonder how Spider-Man can come back after the "failure" of TASM 2, but reading this page about how Bonds come back huge, it got me thinking. Was Quantum of Solace not thought of the same way TASM 2 is? Yet the next film was the biggest of them all. Quality delivers

 

[jmc]

That's a really good point. When Moore was first hired for LALD, they really overhauled the portrayal of the character to establish it as something new and different from the past iteration in order to avoid the Lazenby-type comparisons. Moore's Bond started out wearing double-breasted suits and smoking cigars as a way to visually distinguish him from Connery's. I think they gave the vodka martini a rest for a while as well.

It's completely night and day between the two iterations. OHMSS was clearly written for Connery's Bond. You can't really blame the creative team at the time for that decision though, it was basically new territory for the entire industry to be honest.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Bond came back a lot harder after License to Kill and Die Another Day

 

[Dark Raven]

I hope we get some other types of fun scenes in the film. It would be great to have a dancing scene in Rome with Daniel Craig and Monica Bellucci. Maybe they could dance an intense Argentine tango together, with various provocative comments and verbal swordplay made to each other between the moves. It would be like these old card games between Bond and the enemy or similar to the dance scene between Bond and Domino in Never Say Never Again.

 

[Lord]

Yeah, i consider Casino Royale to be Bond's big return, not Skyfall, that one was just the franchise continuing to be elevated, but it did have a lot going for it, from the marketing to IMAX, to rising popularity of Daniel Craig. I don't think Quantum left all that sour a taste, many still seem to have liked it.