The Dark Knight Joker Scars: Accidental; self inflicted?

[Mr. Superhero]

Either decision would've fit the story. Bruce choosing to save Ra's once again would've taken his character development a different way, but it would still have fit the story. Only difference is this specific plot point was out of character. I'm not denying it "worked" in the film's context.

I was under the impression that you thought it was a "bad thing" that Nolan had Batman make a decision based on natural human emotions.

That I can buy, if it takes a toll on him in TDK. If not, wasted opportunity.

I'm not sure I'd call it a "wasted opportunity", because I'm not sure I'd want Bruce dwelling on letting Rah's die with all the chaos that's going on in Gotham. It's just something for Nolan to make reference to, if need be.

And no one cares for that interpretation anymore.

My friend does.

 

[BatSpider]

Oh splitting the qoute, a good thing

 

[Crook]

I was under the impression that you thought it was a "bad thing" that Nolan had Batman make a decision based on natural human emotions.

Not at all. I understand the decision, and how it fits into the story. I just don't care for it since he could've easily still have Ra's die, while maintaining Bruce's compassion for all life.

I'm not sure I'd call it a "wasted opportunity", because I'm not sure I'd want Bruce dwelling on letting Rah's die with all the chaos that's going on in Gotham. It's just something for Nolan to make reference to, if need be.

Doesn't have to be a major plot, but I thought it would connect with Joker's "Tonight you're going to break your one rule" line.

My friend does.

Well then he's dwelling on an interpretation long gone.

Oh splitting the qoute, a good thing

Indeed.

 

[Sandouras]

Ever read All-Star Batman?

Yes and thats the only comic book where such a lame expression is used. I havent seen it anywhere else. Btw, all-star batman is bad. Read it simply for the lulz.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

 

[DoctorJones]

Simply, we won't know. Nolan is keeping the Joker is mysterious and scary.

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

And I like your interpretation for the thematic reasons you describe.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Simply, we won't know. Nolan is keeping the Joker is mysterious and scary.



And I like your interpretation for the thematic reasons you describe.

Thank-you =) I'm glad you got what I was saying because I wasn't sure if I was describing it well enough... but I just love that idea of Joker self-inflicting the second scar. It not only shows him to be a complete crazy monster who is so insensitive to pain he can't even feel his own, but it also shows that he makes the choice to become the demon in the movie... it's not just a matter of a tragic fate or of unfortunate circumstances. Remember, Batman had a very tragic fate too, but he chose to become a hero. So that message of choice is very powerful.

 

[escobar2248]

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

Nice to see you posting again....t:

 

[escobar2248]

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

I could live with that origin for this movie. We already know that Joker is really F'ed up in the head as it is. And somehow, in Joker's twisted mind....scarring the other side of his face is a means of symmetry and balance.

 

[BankManager]

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

Simply awesome.

 

[cjblair]

Oh splitting the qoute, a good thing

So is the spell checker.

 

[cjblair]

Thank-you =) I'm glad you got what I was saying because I wasn't sure if I was describing it well enough... but I just love that idea of Joker self-inflicting the second scar. It not only shows him to be a complete crazy monster who is so insensitive to pain he can't even feel his own, but it also shows that he makes the choice to become the demon in the movie... it's not just a matter of a tragic fate or of unfortunate circumstances. Remember, Batman had a very tragic fate too, but he chose to become a hero. So that message of choice is very powerful.

I think he had both scars done to him by a 3rd party, maybe they thought it was ironic. He's always making bad jokes, giving people a pained smile. Do we get to find out what didn't kill him, what made him stranger? Why would Nolan mention it if there wasn't at least a reference to it in TDK? Maybe the Mob did him in, that's why he's targeting the Mob. The Wizard article said:

"Reports indicate the Joker begins the film as a nobody thug before an unknown attack results in his disfigurement thanks to a razor blade. Left for dead, the encounter alters the man’s perceptions resulting in the birth of Batman’s greatest villain.

But I doubt we'll see that much, but it might explain his obsession with knives.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Nice to see you posting again....t:

Thanks! I had to run off because of school for a while.. .man I'm glad that nasty quarter is over! I was in FOUR science classes! =)

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I think he had both scars done to him by a 3rd party, maybe they thought it was ironic. He's always making bad jokes, giving people a pained smile. Do we get to find out what didn't kill him, what made him stranger? Why would Nolan mention it if there wasn't at least a reference to it in TDK? Maybe the Mob did him in, that's why he's targeting the Mob. The Wizard article said:

"Reports indicate the Joker begins the film as a nobody thug before an unknown attack results in his disfigurement thanks to a razor blade. Left for dead, the encounter alters the man’s perceptions resulting in the birth of Batman’s greatest villain.

But I doubt we'll see that much, but it might explain his obsession with knives.

I think that the mob may have slit open one of his cheeks and left him for dead somewhere (I'm sure that disfigurement wasn't all they did...) but he survived and took his power back by scarring the other side of his face. Seems like that's how his twisted mind would work, proving that what they did didn't matter to him at all, because he was willing to do it to himself as well. And that kind of plot still follows the Killing Joke theme of Joker choosing to become a monster, rather than just being forced into it by fate. If he survived whatever the mob did to him, and instead of walking away and starting another life he chose to become this Joker figure, than he has no one else to blame.

 

[-Crusher-]

He gutted open a girl that Bruce was falling for. Right in front of him.

The mouth slice wasn't to cause pain or to incapacitate, it was to send a permanent message that "the fight wasn't over". Bruce was acting in the heat of the moment, an act of passion if you will.

there you are then. just like i said. everyone has their breaking point, the joker has proved time and time again to be able to get batman to his breaking point. and that was simply the begining of it all for that comic.

 

[Eggyman]

there you are then. just like i said. everyone has their breaking point, the joker has proved time and time again to be able to get batman to his breaking point. and that was simply the begining of it all for that comic.

I love the way Joker is screwing Batman's mind over in TDK. You can just tell from the snippets of dialogue that we've heard - the 'one rule' thing, and the 'freak . . . like me' one too. It's pure Joker that.

 

[-Crusher-]

oh yea, joker is classic for playing the mind games...oh how i love it.

 

[escobar2248]

Thanks! I had to run off because of school for a while.. .man I'm glad that nasty quarter is over! I was in FOUR science classes! =)

I have to start grad school in the fall. Mo' than likely I'm going to go into hiding for some time too. UGH, four science classes! I couldn't even fathom that, LOL.

 

[Sandouras]

I love the way Joker is screwing Batman's mind over in TDK. You can just tell from the snippets of dialogue that we've heard - the 'one rule' thing, and the 'freak . . . like me' one too. It's pure Joker that.

Something tells me that this could be adressed at Harvey/TwoFace. Maybe....
We already know that the trailer doesnt show whole scenes, for example, there is some screen time missing between "a little fight in ya, i like that" and batman standing in front of the joker. Maybe the "then you re gonna love me" line is delivered at another time during the film. In that shot, bale's lips barely move and we see him for 1-2 seconds before he graps the joker. He could be saying something else there in the film. You never know.

So, maybe that line is for Two-Face. Unlikely, but if it does happen, you will bow to me SHH. You will bow before the mighty Zod...er....me.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I have to start grad school in the fall. Mo' than likely I'm going to go into hiding for some time too. UGH, four science classes! I couldn't even fathom that, LOL.

Grad school -ouch! Well at least you'll have a good job when you're all done Yes, four science classes sucked. I have survived with only minimal damage now, but I am a bit traumatized, I don't think I EVER want to do that again... ever. =P

 

[BatmanFanatic]

That somehow Batman's zipline from his grapple gun cuts Joker's face across the mouth, giving him the cut smile.

I've got to say that the zipline theory is pretty ridiculous. I don't think Batman had anything to do with creating the scars on Jokers face. At least I hope not because the symbolism is all messed up then. Joker can spend the rest of his life running around and blaming it all on Bats.

I see this version of the Joker as more of a self-made man, who has decided to let himself slip into a sociopathic insanity rather than being forced into it by tragic fate.

 

[The Joker]

I see this version of the Joker as more of a self-made man, who has decided to let himself slip into a sociopathic insanity rather than being forced into it by tragic fate.

I agree.

I want Batman to have nothing to do with Joker's creation in any way, shape, or form. If only because I'm sick to death of the villains having some personal connection to the heros in these movies.

 

[BatSpider]

So is the spell checker.

my bad

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I agree.

I want Batman to have nothing to do with Joker's creation in any way, shape, or form. If only because I'm sick to death of the villains having some personal connection to the heros in these movies.

Yes, the made-up connection in B89 was awful, but typical script writing where everyone has to be tied up with everyone by the end for "motivation."

 

[-Crusher-]

i liked the way they were connected in B89, but this is a different storyline, therefore i also will take the side of neither being connected in any way, origin-wise.