The Dark Knight Joker Scars: Accidental; self inflicted?

[Jokers_Wild]

i liked the way they were connected in B89, but this is a different storyline, therefore i also will take the side of neither being connected in any way, origin-wise.

If you think about it, Nolan didn't really have a choice. If any of the elements in TDK were too similar to '89, then all you'd ever hear was 'Nolan just remade the '89 movie. Why couldn't he have done something original?' And on and on...that's why the Joker had to be given a different intrepretation...to distance Ledger and his Joker from the one Nicholson did. But it's also a good thing, because these changes all fit with Nolan's vision and universe, whereas '89 fit the Burton one, so it's all good.

 

[escobar2248]

If you think about it, Nolan didn't really have a choice. If any of the elements in TDK were too similar to '89, then all you'd ever hear was 'Nolan just remade the '89 movie. Why couldn't he have done something original?' And on and on...that's why the Joker had to be given a different intrepretation...to distance Ledger and his Joker from the one Nicholson did. But it's also a good thing, because these changes all fit with Nolan's vision and universe, whereas '89 fit the Burton one, so it's all good.

Umm, ya....

Nolan would of been crucified if he would of had any similarities between his Joker and 89's.

 

[deathfromabove]

It's not my favorite moment of the story, but I don't really get the big deal. It's a Batman on his first year or so as a vigilante, and he's being dealt with an unprecedented threat like Joker. I the the writer was trying to point out just how naive Bruce was about this entire thing.

Plus, it's nowhere near as out-of-character like the scene in BB where Bats LETS the villain die...

wait a sec, bruce hiring a hit man to murder someone is less out of character than him not dying to save someone?

im gonna respectfully roll my eyes at that...

 

[Crook]

Did you just blatantly refuse to read the context of my post?

I was referring to Batman cutting up Joker's face with the batarang. Absolutely NOWHERE did I even mention Bats hiring thugs to kill off Joker. Nowhere.

But thanks for presuming. I really needed that.

 

[deathfromabove]

Did you just blatantly refuse to read the context of my post?

I was referring to Batman cutting up Joker's face with the batarang. Absolutely NOWHERE did I even mention Bats hiring thugs to kill off Joker. Nowhere.

But thanks for presuming. I really needed that.

no i didnt blatently refuse to read it.

rather i ignorantly missed it.

slight diff.

apologies regardless

 

[-Crusher-]

its like i said, everyone has their breaking points. even batman is allowed to lose it from time to time and do things he would never do if his mind were in the right place.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Also, we cannot forget that Batman planned to kill Joker in "A Death In The Family", after the death of Robin. Sure, he eventually backed out of the idea, but this goes to show that Batman does indeed have a breaking point, and perhaps Rah's breached that breaking point in Begins when he came back to Gotham, burnt down Bruce's home, mocked his parents, and tried to destroy the entire city, despite the fact that Bruce saved his ass earlier on in the film.

Plus, Batman was only just "starting out" in Begins, so he may be forgiven for choosing not to save Rah's. I mean, it was Rah's who walked onto the train -- no one forced him...

 

[-Crusher-]

who knows, maybe him leaving rahs will come back to haunt him.

 

[Crook]

its like i said, everyone has their breaking points. even batman is allowed to lose it from time to time and do things he would never do if his mind were in the right place.

Sure, everyone loses their cool. But Bruce manages to get his head right just in time. Lord knows how many times he's beaten Joker to near death, but stopping short of actually killing him.

Plus, Batman was only just "starting out" in Begins, so he may be forgiven for choosing not to save Rah's. I mean, it was Rah's who walked onto the train -- no one forced him...

Are you implying Ra's knew walking into that train would lead to his death, regardless if Bats was there or not?

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Are you implying Ra's knew walking into that train would lead to his death, regardless if Bats was there or not?

Obviously not, because the guy expected Bruce to be destroyed in the crossfire of all the chaos. All I'm saying is that Rah's climbed onto that train, so why should Batman go out of his way to save his candy ass, bearing in mind that Rah's had performed the ultimate betrayal on Bruce, and Bruce was enduring a learning curve?

 

[Crook]

Obviously not, because the guy expected Bruce to be destroyed in the crossfire of all the chaos. All I'm saying is that Rah's climbed onto that train, so why should Batman go out of his way to save his candy ass, bearing in mind that Rah's had performed the ultimate betrayal on Bruce, and Bruce was enduring a learning curve?

Ra's walked into the train, but he didn't walk into it knowing it'd be sabotaged and eventually crash to the ground below, lol.

And I've already addressed the learning curve thing many times, so I won't repeat myself. I'll just say that there are many other ways for Bruce to learn the hardships of being a vigilante, short of actually (indirectly) causing the death of bad guys.

 

[(S)laughter 99]

As far as the scars ... I heard a while back that one side of his face was scared by something and then he was insane enough to mutilate the other side of his face in order to have it "match."

I don't know if it's true but I really like the *IDEA* of it. Because it becomes a combination of a tragic accident and a bit of crazy... I don't like the idea of him making both scars because then it's like he's trying to become some sort of monster on purpose instead of having it forced onto him by fate. Whereas if it's 1/2 fate and 1/2 his choice, that's powerful symbolism. It's like the film is saying "you can be handed a tragedy, but whether or not you choose to fall all the way, whether you are that weak and cruel already in your nature, that is up to you. It's not all fate."

Which is also the theme of the Killing Joke.

Excellent theamatic reasons as to why this scarring route would make sense. But when in the movie would they show this scene and how would the audience ever find out without the movie delving into an uncharacteristically bad tangent. Nolan claims that we'll never know where the Joker came from and why he is who he is, but he's also said when asked about flashbacks in TDK that there will be no more in TDK then there was in BB; that means there will be a few. I guess I'm receiving mixed signals, but the 1/2 self-scarring is gnarly as hell; I just don't know of a way they could work it into the movie with flow.

 

[-Crusher-]

because they wont work it into the movie.

 

[Sam_298]

Has anybody mentioned the grenade or possible small explosive in Joker's face blowing up, in reference to what he did to William Fincther and a nod to Burton by getting plastic surgery and also dentures?
I mean Nolan, did say that the bank robbery would be our first view of the Joker and knowing him, everything he does always has a reason.

 

[Sandouras]

Has anybody mentioned the grenade or possible small explosive in Joker's face blowing up, in reference to what he did to William Fincther and a nod to Burton by getting plastic surgery and also dentures?
I mean Nolan, did say that the bank robbery would be our first view of the Joker and knowing him, everything he does always has a reason.

No offense but this is ******ed. First of all, if an explosive blows up in your face, it doesnt carve you, it blows your face to pieces and burns it.

Secondly, the Joker doing that to Fitchner because thats how he got scared? Damn it, this is stretching it so far! But maybe you are right. What if a school bus carved his face? I find the use of a school bus not coincidental. I think that it means something....

 

[Franky4Fingers]

No offense but this is ******ed. First of all, if an explosive blows up in your face, it doesnt carve you, it blows your face to pieces and burns it.

Secondly, the Joker doing that to Fitchner because thats how he got scared? Damn it, this is stretching it so far! But maybe you are right. What if a school bus carved his face? I find the use of a school bus not coincidental. I think that it means something....

Probably a bit too harsh but I have to say........I laughed.

 

[Sam_298]

None taken.
And you're right, it wouldn't be wise to keep dragging on an impossible idea.
But I guess it'll take time to figure it out.

 

[CrypticOne]

If you think about it, Nolan didn't really have a choice. If any of the elements in TDK were too similar to '89, then all you'd ever hear was 'Nolan just remade the '89 movie. Why couldn't he have done something original?' And on and on...that's why the Joker had to be given a different intrepretation...to distance Ledger and his Joker from the one Nicholson did. But it's also a good thing, because these changes all fit with Nolan's vision and universe, whereas '89 fit the Burton one, so it's all good.

I 100% agree.

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

Accidental

 

[gwynplaine]

Since he says in the prologue that everything that doesn't kill you makes stranger, I assume he was given a Chelsea Grin in the past and left for dead and came back as the Joker.

 

[-Crusher-]

I mean Nolan, did say that the bank robbery would be our first view of the Joker and knowing him, everything he does always has a reason.

his reason for robbing the bank was mentioned long ago.

he stole the money of all the ganglords of gotham so he could hold it ransom and get all of the gangs to help him.

 

[Sandouras]

his reason for robbing the bank was mentioned long ago.

he stole the money of all the ganglords of gotham so he could hold it ransom and get all of the gangs to help him.

But robbing a bank could mean something. Maybe he was scarred by a bank manager.

 

[-Crusher-]

But robbing a bank could mean something. Maybe he was scarred by a bank manager.

OH OH! his father was a bank manager who beat him as a child? as if things werent bad enough a random bank manager gave him a chelsea smile because he was going to switch branches?

 

[Banquet]

I know this is a bit off topic, but I keep getting the grisly image of the captain in Pan's Labyrinth screaming with his mouth sliced open. I wonder if the Joker does something like that at some point, except, laughing. That would scary as hell...

 

[Sandouras]

OH OH! his father was a bank manager who beat him as a child? as if things werent bad enough a random bank manager gave him a chelsea smile because he was going to switch branches?

Lol!!!

I know this is a bit off topic, but I keep getting the grisly image of the captain in Pan's Labyrinth screaming with his mouth sliced open. I wonder if the Joker does something like that at some point, except, laughing. That would scary as hell...

Do you have a picture of that scene? Must have been freaky!