The Avengers Joss Whedon leading on "Avengers" short list of directors

[flickchick85]

Just to throw it out there - those worried about the script being littered with "pop culture references" really shouldn't be. That was simply part of the language of the Buffy-verse. Both of Whedon's non-Buffy-verse shows did NOT feature constant pop culture jokes AT ALL.

 

[FrostBite]

Well I decided to check some of his stuff out finally. I still hate Buffy, I mean... really hate it. Granted I only watched the first two episodes, but it doesn't exactly make me want to keep watching through more cheese.

However... Serenity, dang, now that's a movie. People saying Whedon is a one-trick-pony couldn't be farther from the truth. The man is able to produce some cheese, but when he sets his mind to something serious... he gets the job done.

With his handling of an ensemble, and a clash between science and mysticism I can't think of anyone more well suited. Give the man his budget and let him at it.

 

[DocHoliday]

Yet his lines in Speed had Keanu calling a dude a nickname from a decades old cartoon. But you are right to an extent. To be fair it's kind of hard to shoe horn pop culture references in a show that takes place in the distant future.



Anyway...this would go much smoother with some Taco Bell. Sending someone now!

 

[Saint]

Just to throw it out there - those worried about the script being littered with "pop culture references" really shouldn't be. That was simply part of the language of the Buffy-verse. Both of Whedon's non-Buffy-verse shows did NOT feature constant pop culture jokes AT ALL.

Thank you for saving me the trouble of mentioning this.

 

[Saint]

Well I decided to check some of his stuff out finally. I still hate Buffy, I mean... really hate it. Granted I only watched the first two episodes, but it doesn't exactly make me want to keep watching through more cheese.

Generally speaking, I find the first season of Buffy is not the best place to start watching the series. It's very dated, and not representative of the quality of the series.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I remember back when he wrote one of the drafts for the first X-Men film. They rejected it because he said it had too many pop culture references in it.

 

[TikkiEXX]

Yet his lines in Speed had Keanu calling a dude a nickname from a decades old cartoon. But you are right to an extent. To be fair it's kind of hard to shoe horn pop culture references in a show that takes place in the distant future.



Anyway...this would go much smoother with some Taco Bell. Sending someone now!

you mean the Gigantor line? weird that i barely remember it from Speed but i really remember it from New Jack City. the chick that was Nino Browns little sidekick told one of the italian dudes back off Gigantor. see its not that uncommon of a referance if its showed up in a gangster movie

 

[Iceman]

I'm not much of a fan of Serenity or Buffy but I still have a good feeling about Whedon.

 

[bunk]

I remember back when he wrote one of the drafts for the first X-Men film. They rejected it because he said it had too many pop culture references in it.

Or maybe it just didn't have the terrible one-liners they were looking for.

 

[FrostBite]

Or maybe it just didn't have the terrible one-liners they were looking for.

You know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?

 

[Keyser Soze]

Generally speaking, I find the first season of Buffy is not the best place to start watching the series. It's very dated, and not representative of the quality of the series.

I think it was like midway through Season 2 before the show's formula was truly perfected, with Season 3 taking it to the next level. Seasons 4 and 5 weren't so hot, but Season 6.... man. Whedon structured that out so intricately, like a 5 act Jacobean tragic structure. It was so dark, so deep and so ambitious, when you sit it alongside Season 1 it's like two different shows.

 

[Saint]

I can't recall the cast of Astonishing X-Men suddenly acting out of character and behaving like high school students in Sunnydale, all speaking in the same Whedony voice. Instead, each felt like a rounded, nuanced character in their own right, with Whedon boiling right down to the core appeal of each of them and giving them their own distinct voice. He knows how to respect a source material and do tenured superheroes justice. And given the reverence with which he built off Grant Morrison's concepts while simultaneously doing his own thing with them, I wouldn't say there's too much concern about him not respecting what Favreau, Letterier, Branagh and Johnston did before him.

Ah good; another point I don't have to spend time writing.

I remember back when he wrote one of the drafts for the first X-Men film. They rejected it because he said it had too many pop culture references in it.

Source.

 

[Iceman]

So. i haven't seen Kick Ass yet, but even if it is great, does it mean he should direct every superhero movie? The Dark Knight was great, but should NOlan direct The AVengers? Once upon a time fanboys loved Sam Raimi because Spider-Man 2 was great, post-Spider-Man 3 they act like he raped the entire community.

Directors should be given chances that are solely unique. Vaughn did Layer Cake, a stylish British gangster movie when he signed onto every comic book movie ever and then dropped out (X3, Thor, interest in SM4 and now finally Kickass), but he only did something similar (Stardust) after doing a gangster movie.

The best superhero movies were made by directors who were not in the genre at one point. Nolan? He made mind twisting psychological thrillers like Memento and Insomnia. Favreau? Two children movies (Elf being exceptional, but Tony Stark it wasn't). Raimi? A bunch of low budget horror/comedies and a few low budget dramas prior to taking Spider-Man. Singer? A crime drama and a Nazi movie.

Yet the fanboys either want the directors who succeeded in the genre prior or did pure action movies. But those popular directors did not start in superhero movies or the ones who came from action films (RAtner and Rush Hour and Letterer with the Transporter movies) created mediocre films. Even Avengers is just on "Serenity" level, it will surely be superior to most superhero movies made to date. You can't just go back to directors who already had success in the genre, because they likely will not want to switch ships--and when they do it doesn't always transfer well (Singer moving from X-Men to Superman).

Whedon has a similar style to Abrams and Favreau. Their reboots or superhero movies are generally beloved. I'm sure the similarities in style and how they work with actors crossed Marvel's mind. They want another Iron Man or Star Trek. They don't want another Incredible Hulk/Clash of the Titans. That's why they moved away from your choices.

Agreed. When they chose Peter Jackson for LOTR, his back catalogue consisted of completely different types of films lol. I also thought of Abrams when Whedon was first mentioned as Avengers director. Think their approach will be similar.

 

[FrostBite]

I think it was like midway through Season 2 before the show's formula was truly perfected, with Season 3 taking it to the next level. Seasons 4 and 5 weren't so hot, but Season 6.... man. Whedon structured that out so intricately, like a 5 act Jacobean tragic structure. It was so dark, so deep and so ambitious, when you sit it alongside Season 1 it's like two different shows.

I'd hate to skip through, but I get it. Teen vampire slayer. I think I could skip to the good stuff. Because what I saw was... blech. I hope it's night and day as you say.

Not that I really care though, Serenity was the ****.

 

[bunk]

You know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?

I do know what happens; I realize I stopped liking the first X-Men movie long, long, ago. I wish Whedon had written it.

 

[Saint]

I think it was like midway through Season 2 before the show's formula was truly perfected, with Season 3 taking it to the next level.

Absolutely.

Seasons 4 and 5 weren't so hot, but Season 6.... man. Whedon structured that out so intricately, like a 5 act Jacobean tragic structure. It was so dark, so deep and so ambitious, when you sit it alongside Season 1 it's like two different shows.

I agree on all counts; season six is the highlight of the series, in my opinion. Season five I didn't fully appreciate until after I had seen season six. In five Buffy matures immensely (both personally and with regards to her "profession"), but the events of season six just stonewall her; she regresses terribly, and it takes her a while to dig herself out of that--so, on it's own season five may seem weaker, but it works well when considered as part of the larger narrative.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think Keyser Soze and Ace of Knaves should meet on neutral like the midlands and have a dance off. The winner wins the arguement and then afterwards we all have tea and scones.

I agree, this is a great idea. I'll go first. Trudy!

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[Keyser Soze]

I'd hate to skip through, but I get it. Teen vampire slayer. I think I could skip to the good stuff. Because what I saw was... blech. I hope it's night and day as you say.

Not that I really care though, Serenity was the ****.

If you liked Serenity, you should check out Firefly, the show Serenity was a spin-off from. A bit like Buffy, it isn't so great to start, but there's a point about 3 or 4 episodes in, where it's like Whedon knew he was getting cancelled, so he just said, "F*** it, enough with the slow-boil building of a mythology, I'll just cram as many excellent done-in-one stories into however much of this season I get before the plug is pulled." And the result is glorious.

 

[Saint]

Well what sort of reviews did Serenity get...

You should probably look these things up before making insinuations. Serenity has an 81% rating on Rotten Tomatoes--as a frame of reference, Batman Begins holds an 85%.

 

[Saint]

Sterling work on Buffy and Angel? GTFO! lol I've seen plenty of episodes. My mum and ex girlfriend used to love them. Key words: MUM and ex GIRLfriend.

What a tired and worthless argument. "LOL, WHEDON SHOWS IS 4 GURLS!!" Grow up.

You know what's gonna happen, Cap, Stark and Thor are gonna be standing around with their thumbs up their asses whilst Wasp defeats Loki and his hordes of Frost Giants or whatever.

Equally worthless. Whedon has produced four shows; two of them featured female main characters and two of them featured male main characters. The men were not neglected in the latter--indeed, far from it. Whedon writes what is called for, and writes prominent male characters as readily as female ones; anyone with even rudimentary familiarity with his work would understand this. Do you have a real argument, or is this it?

 

[flickchick85]

Generally speaking, I find the first season of Buffy is not the best place to start watching the series. It's very dated, and not representative of the quality of the series.

Agreed. I love Buffy, and I still HATE the 1st season. When my roommate was making me watch the whole series, we started from the beginning, and I was like, "Are you kidding me!!???" I didn't start warming up to the series until the 2nd half of the 2nd season, but by a certain episode in S3 ("The Zeppo"), I pretty much acknowledged that it was kinda brilliant.

Still, if someone's looking for a stand-alone season of the show to sample, I'd probably recommend Season 5, as that one's after all the high school/teen-angst stuff that some people just can't get past.

 

[Keyser Soze]

What a tired and worthless argument. "LOL, WHEDON SHOWS IS 4 GURLS!!" Grow up.

Equally worthless. Whedon has produced four shows; two of them featured female main characters and two of them featured male main characters. The men were not neglected in the latter--indeed, far from it. Whedon writes what is called for, and writes prominent male characters as readily as female ones; anyone with even rudimentary familiarity with his work would understand this. Do you have a real argument, or is this it?

Part of the problem is that we're so used to seeing heavily male-dominated entertainment that when anything comes out that is more even-handed with female characters that are as strong as the male characters, some view it as "too girly".

 

[LastSunrise1981]

So all this lag was due to Joss Whedon being announced as the director for the Avengers? Here I thought Spider-Man was casted, or Thor being revealed, or even Captain America being revealed.

In any event, my opinion on Joss being the director? I like it. I think he'll do a great job and I am a huge Angel fan. I've always preferred Angel over Buffy since that was the more serious, darker, and character driven show. Also I felt characters like Wesley, Fred, Gunn, and even Angel were extremely well written and allowed the audience to sympathize with them.

So I am very eager to see what transpires with this project and how he visualizes the Avengers.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

So. i haven't seen Kick Ass yet, but even if it is great, does it mean he should direct every superhero movie? The Dark Knight was great, but should NOlan direct The AVengers? Once upon a time fanboys loved Sam Raimi because Spider-Man 2 was great, post-Spider-Man 3 they act like he raped the entire community.

Directors should be given chances that are solely unique. Vaughn did Layer Cake, a stylish British gangster movie when he signed onto every comic book movie ever and then dropped out (X3, Thor, interest in SM4 and now finally Kickass), but he only did something similar (Stardust) after doing a gangster movie.

The best superhero movies were made by directors who were not in the genre at one point. Nolan? He made mind twisting psychological thrillers like Memento and Insomnia. Favreau? Two children movies (Elf being exceptional, but Tony Stark it wasn't). Raimi? A bunch of low budget horror/comedies and a few low budget dramas prior to taking Spider-Man. Singer? A crime drama and a Nazi movie.

Yet the fanboys either want the directors who succeeded in the genre prior or did pure action movies. But those popular directors did not start in superhero movies or the ones who came from action films (RAtner and Rush Hour and Letterer with the Transporter movies) created mediocre films. Even Avengers is just on "Serenity" level, it will surely be superior to most superhero movies made to date. You can't just go back to directors who already had success in the genre, because they likely will not want to switch ships--and when they do it doesn't always transfer well (Singer moving from X-Men to Superman).

Whedon has a similar style to Abrams and Favreau. Their reboots or superhero movies are generally beloved. I'm sure the similarities in style and how they work with actors crossed Marvel's mind. They want another Iron Man or Star Trek. They don't want another Incredible Hulk/Clash of the Titans. That's why they moved away from your choices.

QFT. He'll be fine for the job, especially with Favreau producing and other directors helping out with continuity along with Marvel probably having consultants helping him.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I've not watched much Buffy. I saw like half the 1st season, and I do intend at some point to watch more. I bought a 2 pack of the first 2 seasons and just have yet to get to it.

But, it does seem to me one of the few shows that actually was successful in creating a strong female protagonist, while still reaching the audience. As Keyser pointed out, most films are male dominated (as the film industry is male dominated in the writing/directing/producing departments). It had to reach someone to last 7 seasons, and doing so is no easy feat. Just look at most of the action films made today that had female action heroes. Most failed. Why? It's hard to reach that audience. Buffy did. Whedon deserves credit.