Kim Possible is WAY better than Buffy

[thealiasman2000]

You know why I started the Kim Possible VS Buffy thread?

Because I think Kim Possible is how Buffy SHOULD have been. She's better than her and her awful show.

My point:

-Kim Possible doesn't NEED super powers to do what she does. She can do anything, and her being a cartoon character allows her to break the laws of physics.

Sarah Michelle Gellar, on the other hand, needs wire-work and stuntment to LOOK tough, even if she's a scrawny wimp that would be mugged and ****ed in a bad LA neighborhood.

-Kim Possible is a catoon character. Buffy, on the other hand, is Sarah Michelle Gellar, the most annoying and ******ed actress this side of Keanu Reeves.

-Buffy needs all of those fanboys to secure her huge but fragile ego. If she doesn't have brainless people admiring her and worshipping her, she's powerless.

Kim Possible, on the other hand,doesn't NEED fanboys to feel secure about herself.

-Buffy needs all those weapons like the Slayer's Scythe or a rocket launcher to stand a chance against someone tougher than a paralytic mummy.

Kim Possible, on the other hand, regularly fights Shego, a being thatcan fire deadly energy beams from her hands, unarmed.

-Buffy, because of her don't-call-me- babe ****y beeyatch macho attitude, treats everyone like crap. She abused and humiliated that poor kid Andrew.

Kim Possible is a nice, social girl that treats Ron Stoppable as if he were her own brother.

-Kim Possible doesn't have to hide what she does to anyone, including her parents (who are both alive and well)

-Kim Possible actually confessed her love to Ron Stoppable.

Buffy can't get any boy without him either dying, or leaving her for someone else.

-Kim Possible doesn't rely on a group of "friends" to do her dirty work.

-Wade Load is better than Glies, no doubt about it. He's a technological genius on par with Reed Richards.

-Her theme song is better. It actually has lyrics, and catchy onesat that.

-Disney is better than Mutant Enemy, and OF COURSE the guys who created Kim Possible are better than that overrated hack Joss Whedon

-Kim Possible never stopped being a cheerleader, and she's the more popular girl in her school.

Buffy, OTOH, quit cheerleading when the series started and is a social outcast.

 

[JLBats]

Half of the things you said are irrelevent to the topic or shakily explored.

The day Kim Possible gets a book exploring the philosophy behind the show is the day I begin to concede that the two are even comparable. Until then, one is a contemporary teen allegory while the other is a Disney cartoon which, while entertaining, does not come close to approaching the themes and issues Buffy does.

 

[thealiasman2000]

And another reason why Kim Possible is better than Buffy: her fanboys are not anal-retentive tightasses like this guy here.

Buffy is an allegory for what? People worshipping false idols like in the Old Testament?

How the hell can there be philosophy about a braindead valley girl fighting vampires?

That's why Kim Possible it's so good: it's not meant to be philosophical, it's meant to be FUN. and at the end of the day, when analizing a TV show, that's what matters.

 

[JLBats]

Now you've taken it from an intelligent debate to name calling and personal attacks.

Buffy uses monsters as a metaphor for contemporary teen issues. It also questions the meaning of life and the nature of evil, hence allegory. However, you actually have to watch the show to notice these things.

Thinking the show is primarily about a braindead valley girl is just wrong. The show is more about Buffy's struggle with responsibility as a teenager. She is, ideally, a leader of her group both mentally and physically. Buffy is not stupid. She's not in Mensa, but she's hardly stupid. And if you wish to follow up on how philosophy can be present in the show, check out Buffy and Philosophy, a book found in most Philosophy sections. It's very comprehensive and well written.

As well, suggesting that "fun" is what matters when analyzing TV is what's kept TV regarded as a medium for idiots. I would suggest to you that, if it is as you say and Kim Possible is only meant to be fun, then the two shows are hardly even comparable. They strive for entirely seperate goals. And Buffy is hardly a dry show about philosophy. It undercuts any pretentiousness with snark and wit.

 

[Timstuff]

I never really liked Buffy much, but I thought Kim Possible was great (I've seen pretty much every episode). Joss Whedon's best work IMO is Firefly, which is one of my favorite shows to date. But unfortunately, it didn't even last one season, even though IMO it was leagues better than any of his previous work.

 

[thealiasman2000]

I think you are seeing in the shows things that are not there.

Judging from Joss Whedon's other work, "Firefly", I seriously doubt he's an artistic, philosophical person.

If I wanted allegories and philosophy, I'd watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind". I watch TV to have a good time, not to make a psychology class out of it.

Also:

1-Buffy didn't stay as a teenager for too long, unlike Kim Possible. If what you said about Buffy being the champion of teenagedom was true, the show would have ened once she graduated from high school.

2-I've never seen Buffy deal with the usual problems of teenagedom, unlike Kim Possible. She's too busy fighting weak-ass vampires and demons and hanging out with Giles to bother about that.

3-I've never seen Buffy doing ANYTHING remoletely smart. Giles and Willow do all the thinking for her. Her BRILLIANT technique when fighting bad guys is: punch it until it dies. When the creatures does NOT dies after she's done a few of her fake-ass kung fu moves, she goes running after Giles for help.

Kim Possible ALWAYS Come up with a smart plan, with NO ONE's help, no matter what her situation is.

 

[The Question]

-Kim Possible doesn't NEED super powers to do what she does. She can do anything, and her being a cartoon character allows her to break the laws of physics.

Just because she's a cartoon charactewr doesn't mean she should break the laws of physics. And really, I've seen very few examples of her breaking the laws of physics.

Sarah Michelle Gellar, on the other hand, needs wire-work and stuntment to LOOK tough, even if she's a scrawny wimp that would be mugged and ****ed in a bad LA neighborhood.

It's a live action show. Of course it's going to need stuntmen and wire work. If Kim Possible were live action, it would need stunt men and wire work.

-Kim Possible is a catoon character. Buffy, on the other hand, is Sarah Michelle Gellar, the most annoying and ******ed actress this side of Keanu Reeves.

She's not that annoying.

-Buffy needs all of those fanboys to secure her huge but fragile ego. If she doesn't have brainless people admiring her and worshipping her, she's powerless.

Kim Possible, on the other hand,doesn't NEED fanboys to feel secure about herself.

That's complete bull. Neither of them need fanboys to worship them, because neither of them break the fourth wall. Neither is aware that they're in a TV show.

-Buffy needs all those weapons like the Slayer's Scythe or a rocket launcher to stand a chance against someone tougher than a paralytic mummy.

No, she fights hand to hand alot. It's just that it's easyer to kill demons by stabbing them than by beating them to death.

Kim Possible, on the other hand, regularly fights Shego, a being thatcan fire deadly energy beams from her hands, unarmed.

But that's the only power Shego has. She's no stronger, faster, or tougher than an athletic human female. Hand to hand, of course Kim could take her. And Buffy has fought thousand year old vampires, hell gods, government cyborg super soldiers, legions of zombies, uber powerful sorcerers, and the literal armies of hell. Trumps Shego any day.

-Buffy, because of her don't-call-me- babe ****y beeyatch macho attitude, treats everyone like crap. She abused and humiliated that poor kid Andrew.

The poor kid Andrew who murdered his best friend and opened up a portal to hell. And Buffy, usually, is quite nice to her friends.

Kim Possible is a nice, social girl that treats Ron Stoppable as if he were her own brother.

And Buffy treats Xander like her own brother. Your point?

-Kim Possible doesn't have to hide what she does to anyone, including her parents (who are both alive and well)

Why doesn that make her better?

-Kim Possible actually confessed her love to Ron Stoppable.

Buffy can't get any boy without him either dying, or leaving her for someone else.

Actually, Angel left because he realized that their relationship would only end with Biffy hurt, not because he found another girl.

-Kim Possible doesn't rely on a group of "friends" to do her dirty work.

Neither does Buffy. The Scoobies help when they can, but Buffy does most of the fighting.

-Wade Load is better than Glies, no doubt about it. He's a technological genius on par with Reed Richards.

I highly doubt Wade could build a trans dimensional portal. And Giles is a well versed ocultist with in depth knowlege of demons. Not a scientist, but he's still quite good at what he does.

-Her theme song is better. It actually has lyrics, and catchy onesat that.

Why do lyrics make it better?

-Disney is better than Mutant Enemy, and OF COURSE the guys who created Kim Possible are better than that overrated hack Joss Whedon

I've yet to see the creators of Kim Possible write something like the season two finale of Buffy.

-Kim Possible never stopped being a cheerleader, and she's the more popular girl in her school.

Buffy, OTOH, quit cheerleading when the series started and is a social outcast.

Why does that make Kim a better character?

 

[The Question]

I think you are seeing in the shows things that are not there.

Judging from Joss Whedon's other work, "Firefly", I seriously doubt he's an artistic, philosophical person.

Oh, he is.

If I wanted allegories and philosophy, I'd watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind". I watch TV to have a good time, not to make a psychology class out of it.

Why can't you do both?

Also:

1-Buffy didn't stay as a teenager for too long, unlike Kim Possible. If what you said about Buffy being the champion of teenagedom was true, the show would have ened once she graduated from high school.

No. It simply moved on to broader social issues.

2-I've never seen Buffy deal with the usual problems of teenagedom, unlike Kim Possible. She's too busy fighting weak-ass vampires and demons and hanging out with Giles to bother about that.

She did. It was just through metaphore.

3-I've never seen Buffy doing ANYTHING remoletely smart. Giles and Willow do all the thinking for her. Her BRILLIANT technique when fighting bad guys is: punch it until it dies. When the creatures does NOT dies after she's done a few of her fake-ass kung fu moves, she goes running after Giles for help.

Kim Possible ALWAYS Come up with a smart plan, with NO ONE's help, no matter what her situation is.

Buffy became a better tactitian as the series progressed.

 

[JLBats]

I think you are seeing in the shows things that are not there.

Judging from Joss Whedon's other work, "Firefly", I seriously doubt he's an artistic, philosophical person.

Actually, if you'd listen to the man's commentaries on specific episodes, you'd see what I'm talking about.

As well, it's not like I'm making up philosophical **** for the sake of argument, since a bunch of philosophical scholars got together and WROTE A BOOK ON THE TOPIC.

If I wanted allegories and philosophy, I'd watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind". I watch TV to have a good time, not to make a psychology class out of it.

But understand that that's why a number of people see TV as a disposable medium for idiots to enjoy. Some of us do enjoy intelligent commentary with our entertainment.

Also:

1-Buffy didn't stay as a teenager for too long, unlike Kim Possible. If what you said about Buffy being the champion of teenagedom was true, the show would have ened once she graduated from high school.

Last time I checked, Buffy was in high school for three years. Kim has been renewed for a fourth year now, which makes it so that she will have one more year than Buffy. On the other hand, each episode of Kim Possible is half the length of an episode of Buffy. As well, Buffy is much more serialised than Kim.

The shoiw wasn't JUST about being a teenager, although that's the example I most like to use, since I feel it was the most effective use of metaphor on the show. It was more a coming of age story that dealt with being a teenager, and leaving childhood behind.

2-I've never seen Buffy deal with the usual problems of teenagedom, unlike Kim Possible. She's too busy fighting weak-ass vampires and demons and hanging out with Giles to bother about that.

This is a claim so fantastic that perhaps it isn't even worthy of further debate.

I'll go through the series episode by episode and deal with the realistic teen problems Buffy faces-


The Witch- Cheerleading. This one should appeal to you since you seem to love cheerleading so much.

Teacher's Pet- Substitute teachers and virginity

Never Kill A Boy On The First Date- Teen crushes and growing responsibility

The Pack- Peer pressure and cliques

I, Robot, You, Jane- The dangers of the Internet for teens

Out of Mind, Out of Sight- A girl who is perpetually ignored starts becoming invisible

School Hard- Teacher-Parent interviews

Inca Mummy Girl- Foreign Exchange students

Reptile Boy- Wanting to be older and frat parties

Lie To Me- Childhood crushes

What's My Line- Career Week, whether or not Buffy can actually have a future

Ted- Parent's new boyfriends

Suprise and Innocence- The boyfriend who uses you for sex and then turns on you. This them continues throughout the season.

Phases- Teenage male sexuality, explored through the concept of werewolves

Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered- Bad breakups, among other things

Go Fish- The swim team, steroids

Becoming- The concept of "What are we when all our friends are stripped away from us?", the finding of an identity, teenage runaways.

Anne- Continues the exploration of teenage runaways

Beauty and the Beasts- An exploration of teenage abuse

Homecoming- Buffy runs for Homecoming queen

Band Candy- Buffy wishing to be treated more like an adult, the adults of Sunnydale mentally revert to teenagers

Helpless- Buffy's 18th birthday, being forced to deal with a problem without help from Giles, and using only her SMARTS.

Earshot- Buffy can hear the thoughts of others and hears a kid who she thinks is planning to kill everyone

Choices- The gang must decide on their future

The Prom- Goes without explanation

Graduation Day- Also goes without saying.

If you want I'll make another post detailing the episodes of Kim Possible and we can see which one really deals more with high school problems.

3-I've never seen Buffy doing ANYTHING remoletely smart. Giles and Willow do all the thinking for her. Her BRILLIANT technique when fighting bad guys is: punch it until it dies. When the creatures does NOT dies after she's done a few of her fake-ass kung fu moves, she goes running after Giles for help.

Kim Possible ALWAYS Come up with a smart plan, with NO ONE's help, no matter what her situation is.

Again, Helpless is one example of Buffy being forced into independence and intelligence. She also discovers the Mayor's weakness in Graduation Day. And she gets higher SAT scores than most of her friends.

 

[thealiasman2000]

First of all, who are you, JLBats monkey boy?

Now:

1-If I have to explain why a friggin CARTOON CHARACTER doesn't have to obey the laws of physics, I suggest you watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"

Or are you telling me that is possible for a flesh and blood person to survive being crushed by an anvil?

2-Go watch "Scooby-Doo" and tell me she's not annoying.

3-My point was: Kim Possible actually defeated cyborg assasins and superpowered being WITHOUT "Slayer Powers", thus making what she does much more impressive.

And Sarah Michelle Gellar could hardly take a REAL fighter in a fight, like Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris.

4-I've NEVER seen her fighting anyone without weapons that wasn't one of those weakass vampires that Rufus could take with one paw strapped to his back.

5-Why do you think SMG keeps doing ****ty movies? She NEEDS the support of people like you or JLBats to keep her massive ego.

The only reason that show lasted as long as it did was because of the fanboys that see SMG as a perfect godess, and Joss Whedon as the Shakespeare of TV.

6-Seeing as how Buffy is an aggresive sociopath that would rather beat the crap outta males than kiss them (specially if they are not human), if anyone was getting hurt in that relationship, it was Angel.

Not that Angel (whom I know and love) cares so much about the safety of their girlfriends. Ever heard of Cordelia Chase?

Kim Possible, OTOH, never did anything to scare away any men from her life.

7-So, you are saying that firing a beam that can vaporize flesh is a minor power?

I guess that would make all the people from "Dragon Ball Z" weaklings, then.

8-Wade Load has THE ENTIRE WORLD wired up.

And Giles looks up most of what he knows in books, so he's not that great either.

9-Oh, yeah? I have yet to see Joss Whedon and Mutant Enemy create something like "Kingdom Hearts" or "The Lion King".

10-Your "Buffy by Zarathustra" stuff is just laughable. What are the demons a metaphor for, Dr. Freud?

It's just a stupid show about a girl fighting demons. It's no more philosophical than "Charmed".

And bossing around a group of losers that are actually stupider than she is does NOT constitute a great tactician mind.

And I've NEVER seen Kim Possible torture or humiliate anyone, wether they deserved it or not.

 

[JLBats]

This conversation isn't worthy. It's become you debasing us for no reason rather than actually giving logical arguments.

And a lot of your reasons for one show being better have to do with characters being more capable than the ones on the other show. What does that have to do with the actual quality of the show?

 

[thealiasman2000]

JLBat:

1-Notice how you metioned only a few episodes from the first seasons as your inspired philosophical source.

If that series was a fuotain of philosophy and sciology, wouldn't ALL episode be full of it?

2-Having a few smart moments and then going back to idiocy does NOT constitute intelligence.

Even if she WAS smart (which she ain't), her intelligence is nowhere near the level of KIm Possible, who does investigative work IN ALL OF HER CASES.

3-TV IS a disposable mediot for the uncultured, ignorant masses to enjoy.

Why would a respectable sociologist cite a friggin show about a vampire-fighting cheerleader as his source of study over Nietzche, Leo Tolstoi and Thomas Hobbes?

4-If the show was SO great on coming-of-age teenagers, why does everybody hate Dawn, huh?

 

[thealiasman2000]

This conversation isn't worthy. It's become you debasing us for no reason rather than actually giving logical arguments.

And a lot of your reasons for one show being better have to do with characters being more capable than the ones on the other show. What does that have to do with the actual quality of the show?

Oh,excuse me, Mr. Wise-and-Powerful Philosopher, for not being worthy of my dicussion!

And my point WAS that Kim Possible is more capable than Buffy.

Boy, you wouldn't last a day in Grudge Match.

 

[JackBauer]

if you're gonna trash it, do it for reasons that make sense, not ones that make you look like a childish mental case.

 

[JLBats]

Oh,excuse me, Mr. Wise-and-Powerful Philosopher, for not being worthy of my dicussion!

Stop resorting to personal attacks, it's that simple

And my point WAS that Kim Possible is more capable than Buffy.

So wait, this is about who would win in a fight?

So then why are you including stuff like Disney and Whedon being a hack?




And if this is just a grudge match, didn't you just make one on the same topic?

 

[JLBats]

JLBat:

1-Notice how you metioned only a few episodes from the first seasons as your inspired philosophical source.

If that series was a fuotain of philosophy and sciology, wouldn't ALL episode be full of it?

Err, actually I was talking about episodes that deal with high school, and therefore could only use the first three seasons, at which point she graduated.

2-Having a few smart moments and then going back to idiocy does NOT constitute intelligence.

Even if she WAS smart (which she ain't), her intelligence is nowhere near the level of KIm Possible, who does investigative work IN ALL OF HER CASES.

So be it. Buffy frequently researches, however, and her moments of idiocy got a lot harder to find as she grew up... kind of like normal teenagers.

3-TV IS a disposable mediot for the uncultured, ignorant masses to enjoy.

Why would a respectable sociologist cite a friggin show about a vampire-fighting cheerleader as his source of study over Nietzche, Leo Tolstoi and Thomas Hobbes?

But it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.

It's that kind of thinking that keeps comic books regarded as children's medium or the Simpsons regarded as a children's show.

4-If the show was SO great on coming-of-age teenagers, why does everybody hate Dawn, huh?

Because Dawn sucked and didn't even act like a teenager half the time. She hardly represents the show's coming-of-age teens.

 

[thealiasman2000]

1-Dawn acted more like a normal teenager than Buffy ever did.

And Michelle Tratchtenberg is actuallya better actress than SMG.

2-For me, Kim Possible is a better character than Buffy, which makes it the better show.

3-"The Simpsons" it's not a children's show becauseit has adult jokes and adult situations, NOT because it's a philosophical metaphor.

And COMIC BOOKs are mindless fun.

GRAPHIC NOVELS are serious artistic works.

There's a difference.

 

[JLBats]

1-Dawn acted more like a normal teenager than Buffy ever did.

And Michelle Tratchtenberg is actuallya better actress than SMG.

I felt they played Dawn as younger than she actually was... which they did. On the show she was originally supposed to be 12, but then they got an older and actress and made her 14, but "forgot" to adjust her behaviour.

2-For me, Kim Possible is a better character than Buffy, which makes it the better show.

But you're arguing over who would win in a fight, that has nothing to do with who is the better character.

3-"The Simpsons" it's not a children's show becauseit has adult jokes and adult situations, NOT because it's a philosophical metaphor.

Oh, I disagree. I think it's not a children's show because it has satire and hyper-irony, and, surprise surprise-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...f=pd_bbs_1/102-9684477-1869716?_encoding=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/06...ref=sr_1_3/102-9684477-1869716?_encoding=UTF8

And COMIC BOOKs are mindless fun.

Neil Gaiman claims to write "comic books". Do you suggest his works are mindless fun?

GRAPHIC NOVELS are serious artistic works.

There's a difference.

A difference I despise when I go to the comic rack and see some disposable work being put out. I truly wish the X-Men comics of late would try harder to make a statement.

 

[JLBats]

And on top of all this, Joss HAS worked for Disney, doing Toy Story.

 

[The Question]

First of all, who are you, JLBats monkey boy?

Now:

1-If I have to explain why a friggin CARTOON CHARACTER doesn't have to obey the laws of physics, I suggest you watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"

Or are you telling me that is possible for a flesh and blood person to survive being crushed by an anvil?

Of course not. But what does that have to do with Kim Possible? She's never done stuff like that. Not all cartoons completely disregard the laws of physics. And, depemnding on the type of stories being told, not all should.

2-Go watch "Scooby-Doo" and tell me she's not annoying.

It was a Scoobie Doo movie. What did you expect?

3-My point was: Kim Possible actually defeated cyborg assasins and superpowered being WITHOUT "Slayer Powers", thus making what she does much more impressive.

Kim's only defeated two super powered beings in combat. One of whome was an idiot, and the other who's power's don;t give her an edge in close quarters combat. Buffy, on the other hand, has defeated hundreds of super powered baddies.

And Sarah Michelle Gellar could hardly take a REAL fighter in a fight, like Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris.

So? Christie Karlson Romano probably couldn't either.

4-I've NEVER seen her fighting anyone without weapons that wasn't one of those weakass vampires that Rufus could take with one paw strapped to his back.

All of the vampires Buffy fights have super strength and speed. It's just that alot are idiot thugs. The ones who are actually inteligent tend to last more than five minutes. I highly doubt a naked mole rat could beat any of them.

5-Why do you think SMG keeps doing ****ty movies? She NEEDS the support of people like you or JLBats to keep her massive ego.

What the hell does that have to do with Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Besides, the only Sarah Micheal Gellar movie I've ever seen was the Scoobie Doo movie, and that was only because I was very bored and there was nothing better on TV to watch.

The only reason that show lasted as long as it did was because of the fanboys that see SMG as a perfect godess, and Joss Whedon as the Shakespeare of TV.

In other words, people liked it. As you like Kim Possible.

6-Seeing as how Buffy is an aggresive sociopath that would rather beat the crap outta males than kiss them (specially if they are not human), if anyone was getting hurt in that relationship, it was Angel.

Buffy is not an agressive sociopath. She'll beat the crap out of demons if they're trying to hurt people, of course. She cared quite deeply for Angel. It's just that, had they continued to persue a relationship, Buffy would have ended up hurt. Angel, not wanting to face that, left.

Not that Angel (whom I know and love) cares so much about the safety of their girlfriends. Ever heard of Cordelia Chase?

They were never in a relationship. There was a mutual atraction, but it was never really explored.

Kim Possible, OTOH, never did anything to scare away any men from her life.

I still fail to see how that makes her a better character.

7-So, you are saying that firing a beam that can vaporize flesh is a minor power?

When has she every vaporised anyone's flesh? And, Buffy has fought people much more powerful than Shego.

8-Wade Load has THE ENTIRE WORLD wired up.

And Giles looks up most of what he knows in books, so he's not that great either.

And Wade looks up everything on the internet.

9-Oh, yeah? I have yet to see Joss Whedon and Mutant Enemy create something like "Kingdom Hearts" or "The Lion King".

I've yet to see the creators of Kim Possible do that either, since they weren't behind Kingdom Hearts or The Lion King.

10-Your "Buffy by Zarathustra" stuff is just laughable. What are the demons a metaphor for, Dr. Freud?

Peer pressure, abusive relationships, sexual predators, living a more irreverent lifestyle, drugs, and quite a few other things.

It's just a stupid show about a girl fighting demons. It's no more philosophical than "Charmed".

Yes. It is. By alot.

And bossing around a group of losers that are actually stupider than she is does NOT constitute a great tactician mind.

She led an assault on the Hellmouth. She actually led a group of people into hell to fight the armies of the pit. And most of them didn't die. If that's not good tactics, I don;t know what is.

And I've NEVER seen Kim Possible torture or humiliate anyone, wether they deserved it or not.

She needed Andrew to cry to close up the hell portal.

 

[The Question]

And COMIC BOOKs are mindless fun.

GRAPHIC NOVELS are serious artistic works.

There's a difference.

All a graphic novel is is a very long, self contained comic book.

 

[JLBats]

I have a question for you, aliasman. Since you believe that TV is a disposable medium that shouldn't produce any thought provoking work, what do you think of HBO, and shows such as the Sopranos? Do you penalise them for attempting to provoke?

 

[Orko Is King]

And another reason why Kim Possible is better than Buffy: her fanboys are not anal-retentive tightasses like this guy here.

If Kim Possible actually HAD fanboys, then I would urge them to seek psychiatric help.

 

[TheBat812]

both of these shows are jokes.

 

[JLBats]

both of these shows are jokes.

...this coming from the person with the Kreuk avatar?