Kingdom Come

[Deck Rickard]

Although I would want this to be as close of an adaptation as it could be, one area where I might expand upon is some of the secondary and tertiary characters since they don’t get a lot of facetime in the graphic novel. I don’t think Flash, GL or Hawkman even have any dialogue. So I would give them some (at least GL; the other two have transcended into otherworldly forms so maybe they don’t need to speak).

I would also include Ibn’s story. I absolutely loathe “The Kingdom,” the abysmal sequel to KC. However the ONE good thing in it is Ibn’s backstory. I would include some of that and make him more of a player in the overall story.

 

[BobJM]

So, here’s my Kingdom Come dreamcast. I know that getting all of these people would be damn near impossible but… hey, maybe you could talk some of them into doing a big budget HBO miniseries if the right talent was behind the camera. I tried to cast actors in their 60s or older for characters who age normally, whereas characters like Superman and Wonder Woman are a bit younger since they age slower.


Superman: Jon Hamm
Wonder Woman: Lena Headey
Batman: Viggo Mortensen
The Spectre: Mads Mikkelsen
Norman McCay: Donald Sutherland
Magog: Joel Edgerton
Lex Luthor: Gary Sinese
Captain Marvel/Billy Batson: Nicholas Hoult
Vandal Savage: Marwan Kenzari
Selina Kyle: Ming-Na Wen
Ted Kord: Ted Danson
Oliver Queen: Clancy Brown
Dinah Lance-Queen: Allison Janney
Martian Manhunter: Dennis Haysbert
Red Robin: Andrew Koji
GL (Alan Scott): Stephen Lang

Can’t go wrong with Hamm as Superman. I think you use that as your starting point and build from there…

(oh and I’m now seeing with both cast Marwan Kenzari, but in different roles!)

KINGDOM COME
an HBO Max Miniseries Event

Superman: Jon Hamm, 50
Wonder Woman: Carrie-Anne Moss, 54
Bruce Wayne / Batman: Bruce Greenwood, 65

Norman McCay: Clarke Peters, 69
The Spectre: Sean Harris, 56
Magog: Édgar Ramírez, 44

MANKIND LIBERATION FRONT
Lex Luthor: Stellan Skarsgård, 70
Captain Marvel / Billy Batson: James Wolk, 36
Selina Kyle: Angela Bassett, 63
Vandal Savage: Rodrigo Santoro, 46
Ibn al Xu'ffasch: Marwan Kenzari, 39
Edward Nygma: Murray Bartlett, 50

SILENT CAVALRY
Ted Kord: Alan Ruck, 65
Oliver Queen: Thomas Haden Church, 61
Dinah Lance-Queen: Julianne Nicholson, 50
J’onn J’onzz: Lance Reddick, 59

JUSTICE LEAGUE
Red Robin: Darren Barnet, 30
Green Lantern (Alan Scott): Victor Garber, 72
Hawkman: Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, 33

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Recast the whole thing.

Clean slate.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Can’t go wrong with Hamm as Superman. I think you use that as your starting point and build from there…

(oh and I’m now seeing with both cast Marwan Kenzari, but in different roles!)

KINGDOM COME
an HBO Max Miniseries Event

Superman: Jon Hamm, 50
Wonder Woman: Carrie-Anne Moss, 54
Bruce Wayne / Batman: Bruce Greenwood, 65

Norman McCay: Clarke Peters, 69
The Spectre: Sean Harris, 56
Magog: Édgar Ramírez, 44

MANKIND LIBERATION FRONT
Lex Luthor: Stellan Skarsgård, 70
Captain Marvel / Billy Batson: James Wolk, 36
Selina Kyle: Angela Bassett, 63
Vandal Savage: Rodrigo Santoro, 46
Ibn al Xu'ffasch: Marwan Kenzari, 39
Edward Nygma: Murray Bartlett, 50

SILENT CAVALRY
Ted Kord: Alan Ruck, 65
Oliver Queen: Thomas Haden Church, 61
Dinah Lance-Queen: Julianne Nicholson, 50
J’onn J’onzz: Lance Reddick, 59

JUSTICE LEAGUE
Red Robin: Darren Barnet, 30
Green Lantern (Alan Scott): Victor Garber, 72
Hawkman: Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, 33

Good stuff! Funny thing; I originally had Marwan down for Ibn too before settling on him for Savage. But he could play either. Like I said before, Ibn’s story is one that I would definitely expand upon.

Also, love the idea of Angela Bassett as Selina. That’s something I need to see now.

 

[super85]

I have always thought Jon Hamm is a lot better casting as Batman, even if many people want him as Superman.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Hamm could have probably worked as Batman too, yeah.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Note: Some of the characters pictured like Green Lantern, Flash, Joker’s Daughter, Black Canary, etc; have different identities than their DCU counterpart, naturally it wouldn’t be a 1:1 adaptation. With the characters and lore established in the current DCU, some changes would need to be made. Also, I see Black Adam serving the same function as Captain Atom in the original story.

 

[Babillygunn]

View attachment 60205

Note: Some of the characters pictured like Green Lantern, Flash, Joker’s Daughter, Black Canary, etc; have different identities than their DCU counterpart, naturally it wouldn’t be a 1:1 adaptation. That’s why you see Power Woman labeled as Supergirl or Red Robin labeled as Nightwing. With the characters and lore established in the current DCU, some changes would need to be made. Also, I see Black Adam serving the same function as Captain Atom in the original story.

Aren’t most of these characters supposed to be, you know, older? This doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I acknowledged it wouldn’t be a 1:1 adaptation, the second DCEU adapted elements of Death in the Family, Death of Superman, and TDKR after all. So they’re not above tackling stories that are meant to exist much later in the timeline. This would be a loose adaptation that could help close out the DCU. The characters don’t need to be as old as they were in the book. Plus they can use makeup to age up the actors if necessary.

 

[Babillygunn]

I acknowledged it wouldn’t be a 1:1 adaptation..This would be a loose adaptation that could help close out the DCU. The characters don’t need to be as old as they were in the book.

Then don’t call it Kingdom Come if it isn’t going to truly adapt the story. That comic is too important and too good to mess up its adaptation. Slapping the name “Kingdom Come” on something that bears no resemblance to what many (including myself) believe to be the greatest comic ever written would garner nothing but more ire from audiences whose goodwill has already been tested beyond their limits.

the second DCEU adapted elements of Death in the Family, Death of Superman, and TDKR after all.

And they did them very poorly. It was a great disservice to those great comics.

 

[Captain Tired]

To my mind, an optimally successful Kingdom Come adaptation would be filled with actors who have already built up goodwill with audiences as their respective characters across at least a few generally positively received movies. An optimally successful Kingdom Come adaptation would perhaps function at the culmination of a hypothetical Phase Three or Phase Four of a DC movie franchise continuity.

Alas, historically, Warner hasn't had the courage or foresight to really branch out in film beyond Batman and Superman (yes, obviously they've tried it in recent years with Momoa and Gadot, but I wouldn't say their iterations have had a hugely noticeable impact on general audiences, also someone in TV like Lynda Carter, Dean Cain or Brandon Routh would just evoke a quizzical head tilt from younger viewers at this point), and the most successful, likable and iconic Superman to ever grace live-action is already long dead by this point anyway.

It's a question of timing imo. It's equivalent to how Snyder/Warner Bros rushed ahead to Justice League without trying to lay any of the groundwork, or how CW tried to do a half-assed Crisis adaptation. Ultimately it just seemed unsatisfying and even audacious to most. Hardcore fans might have some charitable fondness for Brandon Routh, sure, but ask yourselves if general audiences are really going to like or even give a flying **** about him returning to the role. Of course they're not. Like Cavill, he's the face of what's commonly perceived to be a failed adaptation. It'd be like Barbara Broccoli banking the future of the Bond franchise on a new film headlined by George Lazenby.

 

[Babillygunn]

All I’m saying is I really don’t want them to do a Kingdom Come movie if it isn’t really a movie that resembles Kingdom Come. And a movie that features Cavill, Gadot, Momoa or anyone else from the failed DCEU would not be a faithful adaption of that book.

 

[Herofan]

Then don’t call it Kingdom Come if it isn’t going to truly adapt the story. That comic is too important and too good to mess up its adaptation. Slapping the name “Kingdom Come” on something that bears no resemblance to what many (including myself) believe to be the greatest comic ever written would garner nothing but more ire from audiences whose goodwill has already been tested beyond their limits.

I don't see the greatness aside from the art, otherwise it's pretty much just the writer declaring that superheroes Should Not Kill and that therefore DC is better than Image (and maybe Marvel) plus the shock value of Captain Marvel being turned bad and fighting Superman. Although with it having a lot of fans I can see that it being adapted into the DC movies after Waid pretty much hated Snyder Superman would be pretty inappropriate.

And they did them very poorly. It was a great disservice to those great comics.

The Death of Superman is generally considered, while an entertaining comic, not a great comic (I recall you mentioned you didn't like it) and I think A Death in the Family and The Dark Knight Returns are pretty controversial, TDKR long before and aside from BvS lost a lot of its prestige and acclaim (although mostly from people unable or unwilling to separate modern Miller and the sequels from it).

 

[GreenKToo]

It would be great if that's what Gunn wants all the DC films, animated films, and TV shows to lead up to.

Show a slow progression of new heroes making their appearances, and they have no problem in killing, from common bad guys all the way up to super villains.

The public buys in.
The Older heroes like superman, batman, and ww slowly withdraw from the public spotlight.

 

[Babillygunn]

I don't see the greatness aside from the art, otherwise it's pretty much just the writer declaring that superheroes Should Not Kill

It’s funny, but even though the art is amazing, I, and most people I talk to, believe that it is Waid’s writing that makes it such a great work of literature. It is truly much much more than “superheroes shouldn’t kill.” It’s a deep dive into issues of to what extent is authoritarianism acceptable, especially in instances when the authority is benign, vs should people be given the freedom to make the wrong choices. There’s also issues of loss, grief and rejection. There are spiritual questions as well, including the age old question of why does God allow pain and suffering (a question that goes directly hand in hand with the authoritarian question.). It is a truly layered and rich book and it is a tremendous oversimplification to just say it is about heroes not killing.

The Death of Superman is generally considered, while an entertaining comic, not a great comic (I recall you mentioned you didn't like it) and I think A Death in the Family and The Dark Knight Returns are pretty controversial, TDKR long before and aside from BvS lost a lot of its prestige and acclaim (although mostly from people unable or unwilling to separate modern Miller and the sequels from it).

If I said previously that I don’t like Death of Superman, then I probably misspoke. I agree that it isn’t the best written story and is really just a smash ‘em up story for the most part, but it is undeniably important. I also have routinely gone on record as saying that the animated Death of Superman movie (written by Peter Tomasi) is my favorite Superman film.
I have gone on record as saying that I don’t really love TDKR. I likely fall into the category that you mention of people who judge even more harshly in retrospect given the sequels and things like All Star. But still I have never been totally enamored with TDKR, even before reading the sequels, however I think that I’m certainly in the minority on that front and it is likewise wrong to try to downplay the historic significance of that book (and Death in the Family as well). These three books are among the most important in the history of comics, even if they aren’t perfect as written. And in my opinion the fact that BvS did such an awful job of adapting them is criminal.