Knightfall

[Lord]

That makes me want to slap you.

Those books may be overrated, but they're still damn good. Death of Superman is a waste of paper.

The Death of Superman was a very badly writen story

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

DC superheroes have made appearances in each other's books and team books since the 40s. Hardly a Marvel-created notion.

Seldom. Titles like "World's Finest" or "Justice League" didn't interact with the solo stories. In the 40s this hardly happened except for a guest appearance of Superman and Batman in "Justice Society". Those were mostly easter eggs. The idea of a big shared universe is a concept that came from Marvel. In DC everyone had his own universe, heck, each title had its own universe, "Brave & The Bold" had nothing to do with 'Tec, while at Marvel the Fantastic Four were part of Spider-Man's origin. And so on.

That's not the question at all. I feel like you're having an argument inside your own head, honestly.
Oh no, I agree.

You said that characters like Superman shouldn't be so overpowered.

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who likes the campy, out of this world and unbelievable nature of comics. Let Flash be able ot travel back in time, have Batman have an almost godlike importance to reality as a whole, I love that stuff.

You're the one who was complaining about logicalities.

Good enough. But then again, you wrote:

The real answer is; they shouldn't have such ridiculously over powered heroes, and they should have one actually plausible reason for Superman not to interfere with Gotham, etc.

----

And yes, "The Long Halloween" and "Hush" aren't good stories.

 

[CConn]

Batman and Superman very much had a shared universe before Marvel came along. The existence of titles like "World's Finest" proves it. I'm not saying Supes popped in Batman or Detective all the time, but he doesn't do that now either.

Speaking of which, why didn't you actually reply to the part of my post that had to do with our original discussion? Everything else is quote semantical. Including your pointless jab at TLH.

Superheroes being over powered is a separate debate that isn't really pertinent to what you're saying. I thought you were one of those people who are obsessed with realized. Since you're not, that conversation can be had later.

 

[CConn]

The Death of Superman was a very badly writen story

The real problem with it is, it's really just the first act of a larger story.

Problem is, it should've been done in 2 or 3 issues, not 6.

 

[Lord]

It could have taken 6 issues if the writers had found a more clever way to kill him rather than punching him to death

 

[CConn]

Any death drawn out over 6 issues will be a letdown.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Batman and Superman very much had a shared universe before Marvel came along. The existence of titles like "World's Finest" proves it. I'm not saying Supes popped in Batman or Detective all the time, but he doesn't do that now either.

"World's Finest" is best seen as just another universe. There Batman & Superman had sons no one knows of and so on... They didn't care much about continuity in those days. The Flash was the fastest man alive, but then again, Superman in his main titles was a lot faster. Superman become much dumber and weaker the moment he appeared in JLA. When Superman encounters Martians they were totally different from those Hal Jordan met. Lori Lemaris was Atlantean, but had nothing to with Aquaman.

Nobody cared back then, because most readers were casual readers. Kids. Not adults.

Of course those characters were supposed to exist in one universe, but this concept wasn't really pushed that far until the late 70s. All this crossover stuff is Marvel territory, really.

 

[Rocketman]

I think the DC writers as a collective group are just as confused about the continuity as we are. I don't think anyone knows what the hell is going on anymore. I certainly don't. I gave up somewhere between Final Crisis and Blackest Night.

And like, where does it all actually start, lmao? Is it generally believed that Batman begins with Year One?

 

[CConn]

"World's Finest" is best seen as just another universe. There Batman & Superman had sons no one knows of and so on... They didn't care much about continuity in those days.

None of that is accurate at all.

Just because they didn't reference previous events constantly doesn't mean it wasnt in the same continuity.

You can believe whatever you want, friend, but what you just said there is as much your imagination as actual truth.

 

[CConn]

I think the DC writers as a collective group are just as confused about the continuity as we are. I don't think anyone knows what the hell is going on anymore. I certainly don't. I gave up somewhere between Final Crisis and Blackest Night.

And like, where does it all actually start, lmao? Is it generally believed that Batman begins with Year One?

1. The DC writers did collectively create a new timeline prior to writing all of the new 52 books. They just haven't released it to us,

2. I can see being confused about continuity after the whole reboot...but how on Earth did you get confused between FC and Blackest Night? They're pretty straightforward.

3. Essentially, yes. Batman starts with Year One. There's some other books (such as Shaman by Denny O'Neil) that show parts of Bruce's earlier years...but it's not like you HAVE to read it to know Batman or anything.

 

[Lord]

1. The DC writers did collectively create a new timeline prior to writing all of the new 52 books. They just haven't released it to us,

2. I can see being confused about continuity after the whole reboot...but how on Earth did you get confused between FC and Blackest Night? They're pretty straightforward.

3. Essentially, yes. Batman starts with Year One. There's some other books (such as Shaman by Denny O'Neil) that show parts of Bruce's earlier years...but it's not like you HAVE to read it to know Batman or anything.

Yeah, i heard that one too but i hope they release the timeline soon, yet i think that it's something they will use but won't show the public

 

[CConn]

I think we're all getting way too frizzed out about continuity.

Just assume it's in continuity until one of the new comics contradicts it.

 

[Cain]

That makes me want to slap you.

Those books may be overrated, but they're still damn good. Death of Superman is a waste of paper.

LOL my point is something that has never been rated that highly in the first place cannot be overrated. This applies to Death of Superman while you see people singing the praises of those Batman stories left and right quite often as if they were really some hot **** & the only Batman tales worth reading.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

None of that is accurate at all.

Just because they didn't reference previous events constantly doesn't mean it wasnt in the same continuity.

You can believe whatever you want, friend, but what you just said there is as much your imagination as actual truth.

Do you really think DC approaches the "DC universe" the same way today than they did in the 60s? In 'Tec they didn't care what happened in JLA. In theory they have been part of the same continuity but practically it didn't matter. They only tried to maintain continuity in one title, not with all DCU titles. The first time the really brought a big crossover event into the main titles was the Crisis.

Back then each title was basically a stand-alone one. I know it. I was there. GL had his own martians, Superman other ones. Mort Weisinger even ridiculed a fanboy who wrote a letter on that subject. Hehe.

But okay, I'm finished here.

 

[CConn]

Good. Because you haven't been making sense for a while now.

You actually proved my point in your post; "in theory they have been part of the same continuity."

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. The specifics of how heavily titles crossed over into each other doesn't matter. The fact is, it was all the same universe.

How much titles cross over with each other can vary by writer, editor, decade, etc. That varied back then, it varies now, and it will vary 30 years from now.

And now I'm done.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

And the approach of tying titles closely together to fit into a united universe comes from Marvel and wasn't originally the DC take (example: before Superman was faster than the Flash, at least in his own title, the moment the Marvel infection crept Superman had to be slowed down in his own titles to make the Flash the fastest man alive. ).

So. Over.

 

[CConn]

Nope. Its not over. The existence of World's Finest, Justice League, Justice Society, Etc. All invalidate your assertions. And to compound that, here's some history on Batman and Superman's various encounters before the 60s...

Superman and Batman first met on radio in 1945, and shared several adventures together afterwards on the Superman radio show.

In the comics, there was no big "When Titans Meet" story. They appeared together in All-Star #7 in 1942, as part of a radio fundraiser for war orphans.

Krokodil
08-15-2008, 02:28 PM
Superman and Batman started appearing together in World's Fair comics during the 1939 World's fair. After the World's Fair they changed the title to World's Finest, which was still running Superman-Batman stories when I was a kid in the early 1960s.

They only appeared together on the cover until circa 1954, though.

"In a 1952's Superman #76, written by Edmond Hamilton with art by Curt Swan, Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne share a cabin on an ocean liner. In the darkened cabin, the two try to change into their heroic costumes to respond to a fire. The rising flames illuminate the cabin and both learn each other's secret identities. They team up to battle one of Superman's most insidious opponents - the snoopy Lois Lane.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Nope. Its not over. The existence of World's Finest, Justice League, Justice Society, Etc. All invalidate your assertions. And to compound that, here's some history on Batman and Superman's various encounters before the 60s...

In a "copy & paste way", taking certain characters and putting them into a story, not in form of an organic continuity. Kinda like some other comic book companies still handle this today, for example in the European Disney comics. The Marvel way was to create a universe that made "sense". If you cannot understand this I am sorry.

It's useless to discuss anymore. Really.

 

[CConn]

In a "copy & paste way", taking certain characters and putting them into a story, not in form of an organic continuity. Kinda like some other comic book companies still handle this today, for example in the European Disney comics. The Marvel way was to create a universe that made "sense". If you cannot understand this I am sorry.

It's useless to discuss anymore. Really.

The inability to understand is Quite clearly on your part.

I've never disagreed that characters are more intertwined now then they were 60 years ago. That's something that has gone through many different phases through it's history. And will continue to do so.

I've merely been saying that Batman and Superman have always existed in the same world.