Kramer's A Racist!!!

[Killgore]

Leave Kramer alone. It's less about him being racist and more about a botched attempt to get control back from the room. He had to assert himself and he just spouted off the harshest thing he could think of, it just so happened to not be funny.

 

[Killgore]

Wilhelm, do you think that your girlfriend's yellow teeth are sexy?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

even though HONESTLY, in your true, real heart, you think her yellow teeth are cute, adorable, and sexy.

if you had written "sex-ay" you would've made the best post today.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

^ Amazing.

Yeah, it really is totally amazing that you guys are saying that anger is "truth serum" 100% of the time. It's preposterous.

Where do you freaking think the term "I'm so sorry. I didn't mean that thing I said." cam from?!?

YES, there are times when in reality the person DID mean the horrible thing they said, but they just wish they hadn't let it slip, or they don't want to get in trouble for it, so they say "I didn't mean that.", but they're lying.

But there are times when people say things they honestly didn't mean. I'm speaking from experience, so again, you can sit there in your arrogance and ignorance, thinking you're right, doesn't change the fact that you're completely wrong and just haven't apparently had enough experience interacting with people. *shrug*
whatever.

This:

When people are out of control, you truly see who they are. His instinct was racism. Therefore he is a racist.

is one of the most criminally stupid posts I've read all week.
(to be fair though, that's only 'cause I can't read blind_fury anymore without getting a migraine, so...)

 

[The Overlord]

Actually Kramer may very well be a racist, I heard that he launched into a tirade against some Jewish people earlier this year.

 

[Abaddon]

No, you just quoted "them" and Fred Fury just said up there^, they don't think he really meant it. That's not the same as defending the statement, it's defending the person.
And it's not saying "That wasn't out of line."
It's saying "I don't think he is really a racist just because he flipped out."
They may be wrong, maybe he is a racist. But are you going to sit there and tell me that you've never gotten pissed off and said something and then afterwards felt horrible because you didn't really mean it, but instead, were just trying to hurt the other person as much as you could?

Of course, which is why I'm not calling him a racist.

It's not defending the use of the N word, it's defending the person, saying, "I don't think that's sufficient proof to write him off as a racist."

Well obviously not everyone in the thread is saying the same thing, so it depends on which "they" you are referring to. Several people said the hecklers deserved it and brought up the fact that black comedians use derogatory terms for whites in their routines and some other nonsense that isn't relevant to this specific incident.

 

[Spade]

This situation went where I knew it would, which is sad. I would be genuinely freaked out if I were in the audience and he started this rant, but now it seems that these people are taking advantage of an already horrid turn of events. I saw what the hecklers had to say on TV about this (mind you, they came dressed in clothes that do not denote a need for this monetary award for being verbally attacked). It is very hard to have sympathy for them after their accounts- they basically muted the impact of their heckling and focused on Richards' bigotry hurting them. That they've now hired a lawyer known for zooming her way towards supposed 'injustices' to make a buck is going to start making people wonder whether this is 100% genuine anguish.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but now they're just behaving like opportunists. I have friends who have been verbally abused like this and not one of them has said that any amount of money takes away the sense of worthlessness the attack creates.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Actually Kramer may very well be a racist, I heard that he launched into a tirade against some Jewish people earlier this year.

Yeah, he's probably a racist. Tons of people are.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

*sigh*
I wasn't making a 1:1 analogy.
Fine, then we'll say it's a girlfriend with an eating disorder and a dismorphic body image, so she's 98 pounds, but still fears being fat, so in reality she has %.00004 body-fat, can't get any thinner, and you call her porky, not 'cause she IS, but only because you know that will hurt her specifically.

You're being dumb.



Are you honestly that naive? That you don't believe it's even possible for someone to say something that they don't really mean, when they're under stress or in a vulnerable emotional state?!?

LMAO, gawd
You have a lot to learn about human interaction.

Don't be upset because your previous arguments did not make any sense. This one works a bit better because it is saying the one thing that you know will make them hurt, but there's still a difference in this and what Richards did.

He didn't know these people from adam, so he has to resort to a blanket statement of offensiveness towards all black people. All of them. And in actuality a ****** is not someone who's black, but an ignorant person. And anyone of any color can be an ignorant person. But that's besides the point. many people go on tirades and anger trips. Many people get pissed off. Many peopel lose control and say things they don't mean.

FEW people lose control and sling out racist statements, or kill someone, when they lose control. Because no matter how angry they are, they don't call someone a ****** just because he's a black guy. They call him a mother ****er, or a ***** or whatever and they move on.

The fact that this is the first thing that he resorts to when he is out of control and acting on pure instinct makes him a racist. I really don't understand how you can try and justify his behavior at all.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Actually Kramer may very well be a racist, I heard that he launched into a tirade against some Jewish people earlier this year.

he just did it cuz it's fashionable now, Mel Gibson is the true original.

 

[Abaddon]

Yeah, he's probably a racist. Tons of people are.

It's all the rage these days.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

No. Killing a person once makes you a killer, but being a racist does take more than a one-time incident out of anger.

Saying things is very easy. Everybody, except you apparently, have said something out of anger, pain, carelessness, or low blood sugar that have hurt somebody.

If saying something out of anger, pain, or carelessness or low blood sugar is enough to convict somebody permanently, than we really are screwed as a species.

Saying something is not enough to convict it's the actions that does this, but with freedom of speach does not mean freedom of backlash. You're free to say whatever dumbass thing you want, whereever you want, but don't expect people not to say anything back.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

He didn't know these people from adam, so he has to resort to a blanket statement of offensiveness towards all black people.

exACTLY, maybe you're starting to GET it now.
He didn't know them as people at all. Not their names, not their professions, not their personalities, nothing about their pasts.....SO....he stupidly lashed out at the ONLY thing he knew about them,...they were Black. Really lame, really wrong.
However, if they were people he knew, say, he knew that one of 'em was a Scientologist, maybe the N-Word wouldn't've occurred to him at ALL, and he would've started mocking him for his belief in Xenu. You don't know.

FEW people lose control and sling out racist statements, or kill someone, when they lose control. Because no matter how angry they are, they don't call someone a ****** just because he's a black guy. They call him a mother ****er, or a ***** or whatever and they move on.

Another incredibly naive and patently false post by you.
You need to learn about planet Earth.

The fact that this is the first thing that he resorts to when he is out of control and acting on pure instinct makes him a racist.

Nope, as I said, it may've been simply because that was the only thing he knew might hurt them.

And HOW DARE YOU say I'm "justifying" his use of racist slang?!?
I haven't once.
You people need to learn to r.e.a.d.

It's just like how Abaddon said that people were defending the STATEMENT, when they were really condemning the statement, but defending the PERSON.
Open your mind up a bit.

All I've been saying is that you can't know with 100% surety that he's a racist because he said the horrible word when he was angry on stage.
If you think you can, you're wrong.

And, do you honestly think Jesse Jackson is a racist?

 

[Locs]

Yeah, it really is totally amazing that you guys are saying that anger is "truth serum" 100% of the time. It's preposterous.

I never said that. Thus you'll see the modification I made.

Where do you freaking think the term "I'm so sorry. I didn't mean that thing I said." cam from?!?

YES, there are times when in reality the person DID mean the horrible thing they said, but they just wish they hadn't let it slip, or they don't want to get in trouble for it, so they say "I didn't mean that.", but they're lying.

But there are times when people say things they honestly didn't mean. I'm speaking from experience, so again, you can sit there in your arrogance and ignorance, thinking you're right, doesn't change the fact that you're completely wrong and just haven't apparently had enough experience interacting with people. *shrug*
whatever.

I'm not trying to be ignorant, I thoroughly read and comprehend to my best what folks are trying to say. However, the examples are silly. I've seen the unedit video and I can honestly say that Richards was doing fine calling them motherf-ers. As a white person, calling a black person the n-word and making a reference to lynching etc. has serious implications. I don't get how that is equivalent to the bad examples offered. They just don't add up.That is why I don't understand how folks are going out of their way to excuse the guy.

 

[Ghostvirus]

I am guessing that those you that are so quick to judge richards. Are to young to understand regret.

I myself have lost alot of friends, & girlfriends because I can open my mouth before my mind can filter. The amount of regret inside me from speaking before thinking is almost to much to bare. I have spent most of my life trying to get a handle on it.

What Richards said was wrong no doubt, & he is going to have to live with that. The thing is the only people he should have to apologize to is the two men he said it to.

The fact that a Black man in New York can be affended by something some one said in L.A. is just stupid. Are some blacks that insecure? Seriously chill the f*** out!!!

Also this whole thing about. Why if two black men can say the N-word to each, why can't a white man say it? No one should be saying it! The excuse that the black man is saying it to each to take the power away from abviously isn't working, because if a lonely white man in a comedy club can offend every single black man in America. Just by uttering that word. Well evidently it still has some juice.

Here is my take. blacks keep let this word keep having because it is a cruch that they don't want to let go of. Just like everytime a black man gets pulled over its because he is black. Not because he is for bricks of pot in his trunk. Oh they wouldn't have found that if I was white. Bull Sh**!!!

Fact is there are some blacks that don't want to lose the ability to piss & moan about what whitey has done. Its easier to blame whitey everytime the power gets cut. I mean the bill was only 6 months over due. Damn white man!
I didn't get that job. Damn white man! Yes thats right whitey will be here for you to blame. Even though history has shown that any black person that applies himself can be just as sucessful as anybody else, but if you don't want to make it just blame whitey.

It almost makes me sad I am not black. I have no one to blam but myself for everything that has gone wrong in my life.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I saw his outburst recently. It was bad. 1960s Mississippi bad. I was shocked and offended, and if I were there I think I would have gotten on stage punched him straight in the mouth. I don't even care about the possible consequences.

Do I think he is racist? I guess it's hard to say since no other accusations (that I know of) have been made against him. Had he said "n*****" or just stopped at that first comment he made I'd probably say "no, this seemed like a one time thing". But he kept going, and said things in a way that no longer qualifies as "uncontrolled outburst". There was no "oops I just said n*****" moment in that tyraid. He just kept going and never appeared to show any remorse, even when people started to leave. No apology right after. No "I did not mean to say that". He just kept going.

Sure he apologized after everyone left, sure he did so again on Letterman. But maybe this is his moment of clarity. Racism is not something we always act on or even show, it's something that just comes out. I cannot say the word "n*****" in public or in private, I cannot even bring myself to say it in appropriate venues...such as a "History of Racism" paper or presentation. I'm not saying I'm perfect, just illustrating I could NEVER have such an outburst.

But he could. I don't judge him. I disapprove of his actions, I hope he has learned they are wrong as well. But what he did is so categorical of the silent racism in this country. That we all would say "I'm not racist" if asked, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. And the fact that we still produce people willing to engage in such behavior as what was witnessed there means we have a seriously long way to go.

 

[logansoldcigar]

Some people cant control their anger. Ive said stupid things I didnt mean when I got angry before (one time I got so mad at this kid I started making fun of him cause he was adopted) I doubt he really meant this stuff.

to a point. A stand up comic that throws his toys in that manner would, i suggest, be tending to reflect his real attitudes.

 

[Matt]

I give Kramer credit for one thing.

At least he owned up. He didn't pull a Mel Gibson and blame alcohol or some other crutch, at least he was saying "Yeah, I got pissed and had a tantrum".

Did he mean it? Probably...but at least he is owning up for it.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I give Kramer credit for one thing.

At least he owned up. He didn't pull a Mel Gibson and blame alcohol or some other crutch, at least he was saying "Yeah, I got pissed and had a tantrum".

Did he mean it? Probably...but at least he is owning up for it.

As I think I noted, I give him that. He owned up. A while I can't really think of any way yet that he can atone for that...he took the first step.

However he needs to stop saying "Afro-Americans"....that word bugs me.

 

[Matt]

As I think I noted, I give him that. He owned up. A while I can't really think of any way yet that he can atone for that...he took the first step.

However he needs to stop saying "Afro-Americans"....that word bugs me.

The fact is now, he is villified. He owned up and apologized but people find it easier to say "Yeah! he's a racist!" then move on. The guy could donate all his syndication money from Seinfeld to the NAACP and people would still be calling him a racist.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

exACTLY, maybe you're starting to GET it now.
He didn't know them as people at all. Not their names, not their professions, not their personalities, nothing about their pasts.....SO....he stupidly lashed out at the ONLY thing he knew about them,...they were Black. Really lame, really wrong.
However, if they were people he knew, say, he knew that one of 'em was a Scientologist, maybe the N-Word wouldn't've occurred to him at ALL, and he would've started mocking him for his belief in Xenu. You don't know.

Another incredibly naive and patently false post by you.
You need to learn about planet Earth.

Nope, as I said, it may've been simply because that was the only thing he knew might hurt them.

And HOW DARE YOU say I'm "justifying" his use of racist slang?!?
I haven't once.
You people need to learn to r.e.a.d.

It's just like how Abaddon said that people were saying defending the STATEMENT, when they were really condemning the statement, but defending the PERSON.
Open your mind up a bit.

All I've been saying is that you can't know with 100% surety that he's a racist because he said the horrible word when he was angry on stage.
If you think you can, you're wrong.

And, do you honestly think Jesse Jackson is a racist?

You are justifying what he's saying. You're trying to put the circumstances into context. you're trying to explain human behavior (poorly I might add) to let us poor misunderstanding hypesters know how and why a person could use a statement like this, and that the statements (plural) don't make him a racist.
Sounds like justification to me. Sounds like you don't want him to be labled because of his lableing statements. I mean where's the logic in this? Saying what he said in the manner in which he said it is cause for distinction of his character. This is just common sense.

Now we could ignore common sense and say that people are not their actions or even their words, but that's just not true. What is funny to me is that here we have a person that goes over the top with his comments and racial slurs out in the open for a threeminute tirade about black people, and how in the past (during times of open prejudice) he would have them hanging upside down with forks up their ass, and how he has enough money put this person in jail and people bend over backwards to defend him. It boggles the minds!

It's not him, it's just his words. He was angry, it's just his words. Now who's being naive.

 

[Abaddon]

The fact is now, he is villified. He owned up and apologized but people find it easier to say "Yeah! he's a racist!" then move on. The guy could donate all his syndication money from Seinfeld to the NAACP and people would still be calling him a racist.

Well he gave the impression that he was. It's not as if he doesn't deserve it.

 

[Matt]

Well he gave the impression that he was. It's not as if he doesn't deserve it.

Regardless, he apologized, its over. Lets move on. I don't need to hear Bill O'Reilly day and night talking about how he is racist, or see Jesse Jackson's response as the opening headline on the news.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Kramer's on a stage, filmed and broadcast all over the world.
Some ignorant people here are saying that his outburst is proof that he's a racist, because both anger and alcohol are a sort of "truth serum" 100% of the time.

I would LOVE...to get a transcript of every word every poster here has ever said in his life, and hold him accountable, completely write him off with a damning label, if he/she made an unsavory statement.

Ever once sat and joked about child molestation, say, during the Michael Jackson trial.
Oh, you think child molestation is funny. Child molestation amuses you. So, now we know that you are an indecent person, and if you ever saw a toddler being molested in an alley, you wouldn't try to stop it. You'd just laugh.



It's making me sick.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The fact is now, he is villified. He owned up and apologized but people find it easier to say "Yeah! he's a racist!" then move on. The guy could donate all his syndication money from Seinfeld to the NAACP and people would still be calling him a racist.

He won't be villified forever (assuming we don't start getting a rash of accusations about past "racist" outbursts or actions). His outburst will be swept under the rug at some point, probably because of some other outburst/celebrity screw up. And gradually people won't see him as racist, or just won't care enough to throw that label at him. It's not the first time celebrities have said racist things.

However for the near future he is a racist, but I really cannot feel sorry for him over that...You still need to think before you speak and say things like that...especially if you intend to keep going...and going...and going...and going with the rant.