Endgame Let’s talk the T word (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[Tony Stark]

Steve was also gone in the alternate timeline. He was frozen in ice.

I wonder if "our" Steve told Alternate Peggy that he wasn't "her" Steve, but a clone from a different universe. It would very yikes if he didn't, because that would mean that he erased the future he knew she would build for herself without her consent.

It wasn't his choice to make. He had no right to jump into a different timeline and mess with it.

She didn't build that future for herself in that timeline. She built the one with Steve.

"The past that you travel to, that becomes your future, and the future where you came from that's now your past."

 

[Tony Stark]

We really dont know the circumstances that Led to Cap marrying an Alternate Peggy.For all you know the Alternate Cap was actually killed in 1940s not just frozen in Ice.So it wouldnt be weird for Main Cap to marry Alternate Peggy,

Alternate timelines equals many possibilities




Ancient one calls out Bruce for the selfishness and consequences of their actions. Bruces solution was to return the stones back to the Timelines to the exact time they were taken to avoid messing them up.

It wasnt a perfect solution as we can see but its an attempt

The kicker is the timeline we know in the MCU is screwed even more because after returning the stones they are still destroyed in the current timeline and unable to protect that reality, meaning they are now vulnerable to the Dark Dominion and Strange and the Sanctums have no defense against Dormamu. I think we already know what the premise of the next Dr. Strange film will be.

 

[Abudefduf]

She didn't build that future for herself in that timeline.

But she would have if not for the intrusion of a Steve from a different timeline.

Again, my question is: did he tell Peggy the truth? Or did he arrogantly chose to change her future and erase the lives of her children without her consent?

 

[The_Manhunter]

Exactly. In this an alternative timeline which prime version of Nebula, Rhodey, Natasha and Clint traveled to from the prime universe, alternate version of Thanos, Nebula and Gamora in 2014 were brought to year 2023 in the prime universe. What happened in the prime universe from 2014 to 2023 is same as before, while in the alternative universe things changed starting from year 2014.

This is making my head hurt lol. So does the originak timeline simply *end* when the Avengers use the QR to go back in time?

 

[Hotwire]

I chalk that up to artistic inconsistency on Writers. They thought it would be cooler to have him reappear on the bench and caused unnecessary confusion.

Or, fans aren't understanding it.

 

[samsnee]

So what’s your take?

 

[Hotwire]

So what’s your take?

Me? I already posted it.

 

[Tony Stark]

But she would have if not for the intrusion of a Steve from a different timeline.

Again, my question is: did he tell Peggy the truth? Or did he arrogantly chose to change her future and erase the lives of her children without her consent?

There is no "would have" when Steve travels back to 1945 that is now both his and Peggy's future. The Peggy who married another man from his past is not this Peggy's future. That's why I quoted Bruce stating the rules of time travel.

 

[samsnee]

Me? I already posted it.

It may be Steve’s future to live through the prime timeline we all witnessed and end up back in the 1940s. But unless Peggy was secretly married to Steve this whole time, it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Hotwire]

It may be Steve’s future to live through the prime timeline we all witnessed and end up back in the 1940s. But unless Peggy was secretly married to Steve this whole time, it doesn’t make sense.

We never know who Peggy married. It could be her original timeline future was to be married to time traveling Steve. Kinda like Terminator.

 

[Mutant 77]

Well, but in the "Loki ecapes with the tesseract"-timeline, there was (from the point of view of that timeline's inhabitants) a time travel event that was ALWAYS part of that timeline.

What I mean is: from the perspective of that Loki and the other human beings in that timeline, that timeline wasn't altered, it was ALWAYS the case that time travellers' presence allowed Loki to keep the tesseract.

If that is possible for the Loki-timeline, why shouldn't it be possible for *our* timeline? In the same way that there was always a time travel incident that allowed Loki to escape with the tesseract, there was always a second (time traveling) Captain America in our timeline.

I see no conflict between the branching timeline concept and the predistination paradox concept here, I see that one results in the other.

Yeah, this is a very interesting perspective to ponder about, quite frankly!

 

[Tony Stark]

It may be Steve’s future to live through the prime timeline we all witnessed and end up back in the 1940s. But unless Peggy was secretly married to Steve this whole time, it doesn’t make sense.

It's not the same timeline. They clearly explain that in the movie that paradoxes cannot exist. Steve's past is not the Peggy he marries future they are separate timelines.

 

[Tony Stark]

We never know who Peggy married. It could be her original timeline future was to be married to time traveling Steve. Kinda like Terminator.

No it's not the same timeline. They clearly state in this film that time travel doesnt work like Terminator.

 

[samsnee]

It's not the same timeline. They clearly explain that in the movie that paradoxes cannot exist. Steve's past is not the Peggy he marries future they are separate timelines.

So the question is which timeline are we witnessing now? Is it still the prime timeline or are we in a branch since married Steve showed up in our present even though he should be in a separate timeline?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Then thano still snaps his finger once the stones are put back yes?

Yes. That's why they brought everyone back five years later rather than at the point of the snap or stopping the snap. They don't alter anything in their own past.

The one time travel movie that wasn't mentioned that's the closest is 12 Monkeys. In that movie, they go back in time to figure out the cure to the virus that plagues them, but they don't erase what happened after that. All they do is bring the cure to the future. The only difference is the "cure" are bringing back the dead. 12 Monkeys also has a predestination paradox similar to the Captain America thing because the events of the movie always happened.

Also, if Cap went back to live in the 40s or maybe the 70s, why didn't he warn anyone about the coming threat of Thanos so they could avoid it?

It wouldn't effect his timeline, though.

That's the problem though... He still ends up simply living until today. So he didn't do anything in the "prime" timeline of the film itself... Which presents it's own issues since they said they couldn't change the past for themselves. So there shouldn't have been an old Steve that Bucky and Sam could have met in the first place under those circumstances.

In theory, every time he makes a decision that would alter the past, it creates an alternate timeline, but it wouldn't alter our timeline. Our timeline would be the one where he altered nothing. Think back to when Doctor Strange used the Eye of Agamotto to look at all the potential futures. That's basically the same thing as alternate timelines. Every potential action is a potential timeline.

Once again, the point of returning the Infinity Stones wasn't to prevent their timeline from being altered, it was to prevent the past from begin altered in ways that would doom that timeline.

 

[writer0327]

But what if Loki escaped with the milk and didn't return it?

What if your mum came into your shower and told you she wasn't your mum, but a Hydra agent?

What if Steve Rodgers goes back in time and gets your mum pregnant before she met your dad?

What would happen to your ancestors if Hitler and his army disappeared mysteriously out of existence in 1940?

All new and unique timelines have been created in those cases. But the original MCU timeline is preserved.

 

[writer0327]

Once again, the point of returning the Infinity Stones wasn't to prevent their timeline from being altered, it was to prevent the past from begin altered in ways that would doom that timeline.

Exactly, by returning the stones you preserve the MCU time line exactly as it played out. There were new timelines created throughout the process, but the MCU isn't affected and happens.

 

[warhorse78]

Timelines

So Cap returned the stones to make sure the prime timeline (the one we’ve watched the last ten years) stays intact. But he also stays behind to grow old with Peggy.

So either he wiped out her husband that was mentioned in Winter Soldier, or that was secretly him. Which means he didn’t bother warning anyone about HYDRA running Shield or try to save Bucky earlier.

But past Thanos also travels to the future and is killed. So then there is no past Thanos to collect the stones and do the original snap, creating a paradox.

Anyone have any theories or do we just accept it as timey-wimey shenanigans?

This is why I really don't like time travel to be used all that often. It get's messy. And, I just don't believe in this multiple timelines scenarios that the movie was trying to pull off. I do believe in the ripple effect. Why else would Thor try to warn his mother's death, but she tells him it's her destiny? Either way, I just think this is a topic that Harry Potter (Prisoner of Azkaban in particular) and X-Men (Days of the Future Past) handled far better.

 

[writer0327]

So the question is which timeline are we witnessing now? Is it still the prime timeline or are we in a branch since married Steve showed up in our present even though he should be in a separate timeline?

Still same timeline. Old Steve returns into this one to give Sam the shield.

 

[Primal Slayer]

At the end of the movie when we see all of the movie families standing together, who is the teen who is standing by himself right before we get to Carole?

 

[warhorse78]

I have major problems with Steve just merrily living out his life in the past with Peggy, knowing Bucky is being brainwashed and tortured, SHIELD is being infiltrated by HYDRA, etc., and doing nothing about any of it.

Completely OOC.

This! This is why I am more on board with him being the one to give up his life for the soul stone in exchange for Natasha's life. Not to mention, he would come around full circle to his arch nemesis.

This new character arc for Steve will also add some weirdness when he meets up with his niece. The whole thing should have been avoided altogether. I said it, I'd rather have it Cap die than Iron-Man. Or both go out with a bang. Tony is "Iron-Man", and Steve is "The Soldier" "Man out of Time" etc.

I can say the same about Thor, taking everything that made him Thor, but after a second viewing, I can see them purposefully tearing him down so he has his next trilogy, as well as his cameos in GOTG and possibly be part of the next trilogy of Avengers films to rebuild himself and his kingdom back to it's former glory. Funny, Feige might have said Captain Marvel is the new face for the MCU, but what if it's really Thor? He's already got the charisma, personality and comedic timing of RDJ/Tony Stark, but he's also now going to be crossing over into other character movies like Stark did with Captain America Civil War and Spider-Man Homecoming.

 

[Donner]

At the end of the movie when we see all of the movie families standing together, who is the teen who is standing by himself right before we get to Carole?

Seconded!

 

[MadVillainy]

At the end of the movie when we see all of the movie families standing together, who is the teen who is standing by himself right before we get to Carole?

Seconded!

Harley from Iron Man 3. The kid who helped Tony out in Tennessee.

It was a nice little throwback.

 

[Donner]

Harley from Iron Man 3. The kid who helped Tony out in Tennessee.

It was a nice little throwback.

Thanks!

 

[MadVillainy]

He grew up a lot. Last thing I remember him from was Jurassic World.

I know back when IM3 came out he said he signed a multi film contract and joked that he could be Nova. I don't think Nova will ever appear though