Personally I don't think Branch Timeline nr 2 happens, I never got The impression that Frigga would do any thing to stop her own demise even if she figured out what was gonna happen.
Endgame Let’s talk the T word (SPOILER DISCUSSION)
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LvtLeeTDK
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sorry pal. Didn't read your comment clearly.
This is very good. I'm still seeing a lot of posts which are clearly misunderstanding the concept of time travel invoked in Endgame. Some criticisms, I think, are worthy but it would be better if more viewers had this diagram's understanding of the filmmaker's intentions.
I think this depends on how Steve returns the stones. Is it necessary for him to return them to exactly where and when they were taken?
How about, he simply returns the Power Stone to the Nova Corps and they keep it, in secret, out of Ronan's reach? The Guardians probably don't form then and there's an issue with Ego in the future but maybe something else can be worked out there.
Whatever the case, I think the story of Steve returning the stones is a very interesting one but one we may never see. Perhaps the Russos or someone can give some ideas of how it went down in a future interview.
Mutant 77
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Transcript of the dialogues between Ancient One and Bruce:
A: Sorry I can’t help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I’m dooming my own.
B: With all due respect, I’m not sure the science really supports that.
She shows him a timeline with Infinity Stones circling a single point. The timeline is depicted as glowing, flowing lines like golden yarn wrapped around itself, constantly in flux.
(Supperhero: the branched timeline has been created by the time travel, not by the removal of the stone, because she already refers to it as "my own reality")
A: The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone…
She swoops away the time stone. A dark, branched flow emerges from the timeline following the motion of the stone.
A: and that flow splits. This may benefit your reality, but not my one.
(Supperhero: this is where things get messed up. So if you destroy the stones, you have no "time" anymore? What? No way. Maybe she meant that the Infinity Stones help stabilizing the ALREADY-BRANCHED timeline. She then says: "this may benefit your reality, but not my one". IT DOESNT BENEFIT HER ALREADY-EXISTENT REALITY)
A: In this new branch reality, without our weapon against the forces of darkness, millions will suffer. Can your science prevent that?
B: But we can erase it, we can return each one to its own timeline at the exact moment it was taken.
He grabs the green stone out of thin air from the direction of the flow.
B: So chronologically…
Places it back with the other stones
B: It never left.
He watches as the branch reality dusts and disappears
(Supperhero: the dark-colored branched reality "disappears", meaning that they will not suffer a terrible fate anymore, having the stone in its place... anyway, the time traveler exists in their past for a very brief moment, so the MCU reality splits anyway and the branched timeline is created, no matter what)
A: Sorry I can’t help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I’m dooming my own.
B: With all due respect, I’m not sure the science really supports that.
She shows him a timeline with Infinity Stones circling a single point. The timeline is depicted as glowing, flowing lines like golden yarn wrapped around itself, constantly in flux.
(Supperhero: the branched timeline has been created by the time travel, not by the removal of the stone, because she already refers to it as "my own reality")
A: The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone…
She swoops away the time stone. A dark, branched flow emerges from the timeline following the motion of the stone.
A: and that flow splits. This may benefit your reality, but not my one.
(Supperhero: this is where things get messed up. So if you destroy the stones, you have no "time" anymore? What? No way. Maybe she meant that the Infinity Stones help stabilizing the ALREADY-BRANCHED timeline. She then says: "this may benefit your reality, but not my one". IT DOESNT BENEFIT HER ALREADY-EXISTENT REALITY)
A: In this new branch reality, without our weapon against the forces of darkness, millions will suffer. Can your science prevent that?
B: But we can erase it, we can return each one to its own timeline at the exact moment it was taken.
He grabs the green stone out of thin air from the direction of the flow.
B: So chronologically…
Places it back with the other stones
B: It never left.
He watches as the branch reality dusts and disappears
(Supperhero: the dark-colored branched reality "disappears", meaning that they will not suffer a terrible fate anymore, having the stone in its place... anyway, the time traveler exists in their past for a very brief moment, so the MCU reality splits anyway and the branched timeline is created, no matter what)
FunkMiller
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As I said in the other thread... what about Sharon Carter? She’s Peggy’s great niece. She’d have to know about Steve, wouldn’t she? So she kisses the same guy, with the same name, as her great uncle? She’d have certainly met old Steve... they would have been relatively close family.
Mutant 77
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Transcript of the dialogues between Ancient One and Bruce:
A: Sorry I can’t help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I’m dooming my own.
B: With all due respect, I’m not sure the science really supports that.
She shows him a timeline with Infinity Stones circling a single point. The timeline is depicted as glowing, flowing lines like golden yarn wrapped around itself, constantly in flux.
(Supperhero: the branched timeline has been created by the time travel, not by the removal of the stone, because she already refers to it as "my own reality")
A: The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone…
She swoops away the time stone. A dark, branched flow emerges from the timeline following the motion of the stone.
A: and that flow splits. This may benefit your reality, but not my one.
(Supperhero: this is where things get messed up. So if you destroy the stones, you have no "time" anymore? What? No way. Maybe she meant that the Infinity Stones help stabilizing the ALREADY-BRANCHED timeline. She then says: "this may benefit your reality, but not my one". IT DOESNT BENEFIT HER ALREADY-EXISTENT REALITY)
A: In this new branch reality, without our weapon against the forces of darkness, millions will suffer. Can your science prevent that?
B: But we can erase it, we can return each one to its own timeline at the exact moment it was taken.
He grabs the green stone out of thin air from the direction of the flow.
B: So chronologically…
Places it back with the other stones
B: It never left.
He watches as the branch reality dusts and disappears
(Supperhero: the dark-colored branched reality "disappears", meaning that they will not suffer a terrible fate anymore, having the stone in its place... anyway, the time traveler exists in their past for a very brief moment, so the MCU reality splits anyway and the branched timeline is created, no matter what)
A: Sorry I can’t help you. If I give up the Time Stone to help your reality, I’m dooming my own.
B: With all due respect, I’m not sure the science really supports that.
She shows him a timeline with Infinity Stones circling a single point. The timeline is depicted as glowing, flowing lines like golden yarn wrapped around itself, constantly in flux.
(Supperhero: the branched timeline has been created by the time travel, not by the removal of the stone, because she already refers to it as "my own reality")
A: The infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone…
She swoops away the time stone. A dark, branched flow emerges from the timeline following the motion of the stone.
A: and that flow splits. This may benefit your reality, but not my one.
(Supperhero: this is where things get messed up. So if you destroy the stones, you have no "time" anymore? What? No way. Maybe she meant that the Infinity Stones help stabilizing the ALREADY-BRANCHED timeline. She then says: "this may benefit your reality, but not my one". IT DOESNT BENEFIT HER ALREADY-EXISTENT REALITY)
A: In this new branch reality, without our weapon against the forces of darkness, millions will suffer. Can your science prevent that?
B: But we can erase it, we can return each one to its own timeline at the exact moment it was taken.
He grabs the green stone out of thin air from the direction of the flow.
B: So chronologically…
Places it back with the other stones
B: It never left.
He watches as the branch reality dusts and disappears
(Supperhero: the dark-colored branched reality "disappears", meaning that they will not suffer a terrible fate anymore, having the stone in its place... anyway, the time traveler exists in their past for a very brief moment, so the MCU reality splits anyway and the branched timeline is created, no matter what)
Mutant 77
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FunkMiller
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But (I think) C Lee is postulating that Steve could have gone back in the main timeline? Not an offshoot?
MadVillainy
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Not my timeline. Not my problem
If Sharon met Steve growing up in the Peggy Timeline then the simple solution is that Steve smothers her with a pillow so she can't give the game away in the future.
My feeling is that this conflicts with the internal logic of the film. We'll have to wait for the storytellers to confirm if they meant to create more of a time loop where Steve was always Peggy's husband in the Main Timeline but I don't think that would fully make sense unless it was a different Steve from another unknown (but almost identical) timeline.
My feeling is that this conflicts with the internal logic of the film. We'll have to wait for the storytellers to confirm if they meant to create more of a time loop where Steve was always Peggy's husband in the Main Timeline but I don't think that would fully make sense unless it was a different Steve from another unknown (but almost identical) timeline.
PLOT HOLE:
So all the movie is based on the time travel on the quantum world, and how time travels in different speed in the real world (5hrs) vs quantum world (5years).
The problem is that the first time we see the quantum world, is in ant man, when The Wasp get stucked in the quantum world for decades. She eventually get saved by Ant Man on the second movie, but she has aged exactly the same as Hank Pym.
The problem is, if we follow the idea of time travel from Avengers Endgame, she shouldn’t have aged that much.
So all the movie is based on the time travel on the quantum world, and how time travels in different speed in the real world (5hrs) vs quantum world (5years).
The problem is that the first time we see the quantum world, is in ant man, when The Wasp get stucked in the quantum world for decades. She eventually get saved by Ant Man on the second movie, but she has aged exactly the same as Hank Pym.
The problem is, if we follow the idea of time travel from Avengers Endgame, she shouldn’t have aged that much.
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This is what scrambled my brain. They clearly show the timeline going back to normal once the time traveler returns the stones. What I’m thinking now is the branch is chopped off the original timeline when the stone is returned, having no bearing one way or the other. It’s as if the time traveler never came back to that point and will never have an impact on anything in the future. However, the branch that was severed still exists into its own branch of reality, much like the MCU branch we’ve seen. This new branch is it’s own timeline and will never intertwine with the one it was cut from. Remember in IW, Strange went forward in time and looked at 14million realities and found the one branch where they won. It’s still a mind screw but I think they’ve established there are alternative realities/timelines no matter what happens. At least this thinking allowed me to get some sleep last night.
FunkMiller
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This is what scrambled my brain. They clearly show the timeline going back to normal once the time traveler returns the stones. What I’m thinking now is the branch is chopped off the original timeline when the stone is returned, having no bearing one way or the other. It’s as if the time traveler never came back to that point and will never have an impact on anything in the future. However, the branch that was severed still exists into its own branch of reality, much like the MCU branch we’ve seen. This new branch is it’s own timeline and will never intertwine with the one it was cut from. Remember in IW, Strange went forward in time and looked at 14million realities and found the one branch where they won. It’s still a mind screw but I think they’ve established there are alternative realities/timelines no matter what happens. At least this thinking allowed me to get some sleep last night.
The only real sticking point is how old Steve returns to the main timeline from the new one he created by going back to Peggy. I... guess?
The only real sticking point is how old Steve returns to the main timeline from the new one he created by going back to Peggy. I... guess?
Yeah, this right here just throws everything back into the blender. They should’ve showed bucky and Sam looking out wondering what happened and then cap dancing with Peggy in the past. But the how do we get closure that Cap properly passed the torch to Falcon?
Science be damned, the movie was damn near perfect anyway.....
Mutant 77
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The only real sticking point is how old Steve returns to the main timeline from the new one he created by going back to Peggy. I... guess?
He did that in some way, off-screen. Quantum tech...
RoastBeast
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Well, here's something that was tweaking my brain all night...
So if the Infinity Stones hold time and reality together, and removing one of them can create branches... what happened to their timeline/reality when Thanos destroyed all of the stones? Infinite branches? ... is that why there were so many possible solutions to the problem of Thanos, because those thousands of possible universes actually existed due to Thanos destroying the stones?
RoastBeast
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Yeah, he knows
pretty much who will be involved in the quantum research, just look them up at the right time and do a little balanced reciprocation. Steve "I think it runs on some kind of electricity" Rogers didn't do it himself...
The only real sticking point is how old Steve returns to the main timeline from the new one he created by going back to Peggy. I... guess?
Earlier in the film all the Avengers are able to return to the Main Timeline from their various branches after obtaining the Stones from the past. It seemed initially that they used the specially constructed pad as an anchor point but it may be that using the pad isn't really essential and Steve could very well have transported himself to behind a tree just before younger-him left with the Stones.
I think the best way to think about it is that, in this multiverse of timelines, every time and place in every existing timeline has its own unique location in the Quantum Realm and it's just a matter of navigating to the location you want using the Quantum suits.
Something that confuses me a bit is that Carol tries to fly into the van tunnel at the end without one of these suits on. What is her plan here? What was she going to do? Did she even know that the Stones had to be returned and to where and when?
FunkMiller
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And this is the main point of course.
Okay, the time travel writing is sloppy, but when you get right down to it... does it really matter?
I don't think the Infinity Stones hold time and reality together. More that The Ancient One felt they were powerful resources in the fight against the forces of darkness and to lose one from her timeline would endanger its inhabitants.
I'm not entirely sure why she would think that though. It's true that she uses the Time Stone for good but most of the rest of the Stones are simply hidden, seemingly doing nothing for anybody. If anything, they're just extremely powerful and dangerous and would be better off destroyed but I'm sure she knows more about it than me.
I absolutely agree
Hello epolakie!
I think what they were getting at with their description of time in the Quantum Realm is that it moves unpredictably and in a way which best services the plot rather than to say it moves much more slowly or at the same pace.
drmick
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I agree with Supperhero's take on all of this. It's a pity the movie itself didn't try a bit harder to explain it more. That last scene with Rodgers messes with the logic they had established. And the scene with Banner and the Ancient One could have done with an extra sentence or two of exposition.
I don’t think it’s 1 hour = 1 year, it’s just that Scott was stuck in there for 5 hours and when he got out, he happened to jump to a point 5 years in the future. Janet was stuck in there for however long needed for her the age like that, then got out in year 2018.
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