Endgame Let’s talk the T word (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[samsnee]

So old Steve is from another timeline, and hasn’t been living in the prime timeline according to the Russo’s.

'Avengers Endgame' directors answer Captain America mystery

 

[Donner]

So they confirmed Alternate realities.Finally should clear it up for everyone.




Having Steve live undercover in the Timeline would mess with the Time travel rules already established. It also is extremely hard to explain how Old steve has been undercover all this while without causing continuity questions





They Chose to use the Alternate Realities type Time Travel. The reasons should be obvious once you put on a Writers Hat.

1.This type of Type travel allows the Characters to mess freely with the Timeline without it having consequences on the present. That gave them freedom with Endgame plot

2.This gives them an excuse to create an alternate reality where Loki is alive and they can ignore MCU continuity for TV Show.

3.Alternate realities open the door for some very interesting Futures stories with interesting characters. Characters like Kang the Conqueror, Living Tribunal etc


Side note: Adam Warlock will be in Guardians 3.

Like I said, to me, they will have to someday explain how Steve was able to jump to a different timeline. That's too big of a plot hole to explain away by saying he could just ask Hank Pym. It took until 2023 to figure out time travel. Reality jumping wouldn't be figured out in the 70s.

I don't like the idea of the characters messing with the timeline because it does create new timelines. It's messy and it creates a plethora of alternates where the favs are all still alive. Feels cheap to me. But whatever.

And good, Warlock better be in Guardians 3. I'd hate for a post credits scene to be a complete waste.

 

[Silvermoon]

Like I said, to me, they will have to someday explain how Steve was able to jump to a different timeline. That's too big of a plot hole to explain away by saying he could just ask Hank Pym. It took until 2023 to figure out time travel. Reality jumping wouldn't be figured out in the 70s.

I don't like the idea of the characters messing with the timeline because it does create new timelines. It's messy and it creates a plethora of alternates where the favs are all still alive. Feels cheap to me. But whatever.

And good, Warlock better be in Guardians 3. I'd hate for a post credits scene to be a complete waste.

Who says he jumped back to the prime timeline when his alternate timeline was going through the 70's? And again, he brought a piece of future tech with him... he had his TimeGPS. Either he used that to make the return trip to his original timeline (because the GPS is linked/tethered to the prime timeline - and again, that GPS can make time/location jumps on it's own/without the platform, we saw that with Tony and Cap jumping from 2012 New York City to 1970 New Jersey) or he was able to give that tech to one of the great minds of the alternate timeline he was living in (there's no indication of what year it was in the alternate timeline when he made the decision to return to 2023 prime) and had them assist him make the jump back (again, probably somehow using the fact that the GPS is tethered to the timeline he originally came from).

 

[Donner]

Who says he jumped back to the prime timeline when his alternate timeline was going through the 70's? And again, he brought a piece of future tech with him... he had his TimeGPS. Either he used that to make the return trip to his original timeline (because the GPS is linked/tethered to the prime timeline - and again, that GPS can make time/location jumps on it's own/without the platform, we saw that with Tony and Cap jumping from 2012 New York City to 1970 New Jersey) or he was able to give that tech to one of the great minds of the alternate timeline he was living in (there's no indication of what year it was in the alternate timeline when he made the decision to return to 2023 prime) and had them assist him make the jump back (again, probably somehow using the fact that the GPS is tethered to the timeline he originally came from).

I'd like a story, that's all. I'm not a fan of alternate timelines so that's just me.

 

[djsunyc]

btw, this is all going on the premise that cap was:

1. successful in returning all the stones or
2. he wasn't or
3. the ancient one was wrong.

there's alot to accept w/o knowing exactly what cap did.

i'm still a believer that every single time travel situatoin created a new timeline and nothing reconciles them.

 

[Mutant 77]

Like I said, to me, they will have to someday explain how Steve was able to jump to a different timeline. That's too big of a plot hole to explain away by saying he could just ask Hank Pym.

WELL,
If you think about it, when they return the stones back from "where" they stole, it's not just time travel anymore but interdimensional travel as well, because they are not going back to their "PAST" (the MCU Prime Timeline) but all other "branched" realities that they they created at the beginning, when they time traveled and stole the stones. What a mess!

 

[Kris]

They also don't explain how Steve could have possibly jumped to another dimension to give Sam the shield.



I feel like if they never actually explain this, it'll be really frustrating for fans. Of all the people who could travel between the multiverse, Cap doesn't strike me as the type. Tony or Banner or the F4 sure, but not Cap.

Ok here goes.....
Remember when Tony and Cap have to go back further to get the tesseract at an earlier point in time after messing up the first time with Loki? They use the gps things. Now, the gps things have coordinates that can put you to certain points within that timeline (the main one that we know). It does this without the need for a machine. To get back to the future, they have to appear on the machine. When cap goes back at the end to return stones, he decides to live a life with Peggy and goes back even further to 1940 something. This creates a new reality. If he stays quiet it will all play out like it does in the main reality but it will still be a different reality, if he walked to the park bench it would be a different version of Sam he would be speaking to. So what old Cap likely does is wait until after the other cap is sent back, maybe a day after, then he programs his gps to send him back a day. By doing this the gps coordinates put him back on the original timeline, it has to. So he is now back in the main reality after living a life with Peggy in the other reality. (Peggy married someone else in the main timeline). The reason cap appears on the park bench is because he travelled backwards with the gps and could pick the spot he wanted to go to, instead of travelling forward and needing a machine.

 

[Kris]

WELL,
If you think about it, when they return the stones back from "where" they stole, it's not just time travel anymore but interdimensional travel as well, because they are not going back to their "PAST" (the MCU Prime Timeline) but all other "branched" realities that they they created at the beginning, when they time traveled and stole the stones. What a mess!

If Cap still had his TimeGPS (which he likely was sure to hold onto), that links to the prime timeline... think of it as a tether. So it's likely that was used in some way in getting oldCap back to his original timeline. Whether he used that to jump back to Prime 2023 ala how he and Tony went from 2012 New York City to 1970 New Jersey (no platform needed during that jump, that could explain why he didn't end up on the platform after he 'missed his window'), or else he enlisted the help of the alternate timeline's great minds (whether Howard, or Hank Pym, or even the alternate timeline's Tony Stark) to use the timeline that the GPS device was linked to (the prime timeline) as a guide point in sending him back.

This is spot on! Basically, GPS links to main time line, cap living with Peggy is a new timeline so he waits until after other cap is sent back, maybe one day, and uses the gps to go back a day, putting him back in the main timeline where he wants, without needing the machine

 

[Kris]

So old Steve is from another timeline, and hasn’t been living in the prime timeline according to the Russo’s.

'Avengers Endgame' directors answer Captain America mystery

Old Steve is from the main timeline though, he went back from the main timeline to put atones back and decides to live with Peggy. This creates a new reality he now lives in. He then gets back to a day or so after the other cap gets sent back in this new reality and then travels back a day. The coordinates on the gps will put him back in the main timeline (where Peggy married someone else) that doesn’t matter though cos he lived a life with Peggy in the other reality. The fact he waited a day after cap was sent back and travelled backwards back into the main timeline means he didn’t need a machine (like how Tony and Steve did it that time.). This is how I see it.

 

[drmick]

It definitely feels like there is exposition missing.

Thor seems to be clearly under the impression that he is not allowed to speak to his mum about her future, and going by their plan on how to take the Aether that would also have applied to Jane Foster.

The time platform appears to be essential to travel forward in time, while the GPS devices and suits allow you to only travel backwards. It feels like that should have been explained a bit better.

 

[drmick]

In all of these new timelines Xandar gets destroyed, either by Ronan, or Thanos.

 

[Mutant 77]

It definitely feels like there is exposition missing.

Thor seems to be clearly under the impression that he is not allowed to speak to his mum about her future, and going by their plan on how to take the Aether that would also have applied to Jane Foster.

The time platform appears to be essential to travel forward in time, while the GPS devices and suits allow you to only travel backwards. It feels like that should have been explained a bit better.

Yes, definitely. More exposition and more sequences involving the time/interdimensional travel.

 

[Mike Murdock]

N


No I think i’m still right the first time. They just go to different points in time on the same reality/timeline. The only branch I can see if where


Ok cool! This now makes some sense! One more question though, this one is good! In all the possibilities Doctor Strange saw, Thanos wins, except one (main timeline). Does this mean that in every other timeline / reality created, Thanos eventually wins??? I think so!

Every potential timeline branching from their actions in that fight. Any alternative timeline caused by prior actions were not part of that.

Think of it this way. Whenever you arrive an an intersection where you can go left or right, you create two timelines - one where you went left and one where you went right. Doctor Strange saw all those potential outcomes as well. Now if you add people coming back from the future, you're adding additional timelines to the equation for every action or non-action, but those wouldn't have been the ones Doctor Strange saw.

 

[Mutant 77]

 

[Havok83]

These time travel shenanigans are more confusing here than the hot mess that is the Fox series with Days of Future Past

 

[Mike Murdock]

Fox's time travel is simple. It's "we don't care and neither should you."

 

[Another_Fool]

I kind of wish that the Russos didn't explain it and left it up to the viewers to decide and instead offer how either theory works.

Personally I like the thought that Steve was still in the main timeline and he had always been Peggy's husband a la time also being a flat circle. I know some have said how could he just sit and let the bad things happen, but it also seems consistent with Steve that the right thing is to not tamper with anything in case it leads to Thanos being victorious.

I dunno. I just know I loved the final scene.

 

[Donner]

I kind of wish that the Russos didn't explain it and left it up to the viewers to decide and instead offer how either theory works.

Personally I like the thought that Steve was still in the main timeline and he had always been Peggy's husband a la time also being a flat circle. I know some have said how could he just sit and let the bad things happen, but it also seems consistent with Steve that the right thing is to not tamper with anything in case it leads to Thanos being victorious.

I dunno. I just know I loved the final scene.

A million times this.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In truth, once a movie is released it is up to the viewer on how they interpret it. The Russos can state their intent, but that doesn't necessarily mean even they were right.

 

[Kris]

Every potential timeline branching from their actions in that fight. Any alternative timeline caused by prior actions were not part of that.

Think of it this way. Whenever you arrive an an intersection where you can go left or right, you create two timelines - one where you went left and one where you went right. Doctor Strange saw all those potential outcomes as well. Now if you add people coming back from the future, you're adding additional timelines to the equation for every action or non-action, but those wouldn't have been the ones Doctor Strange saw.

Cool! Makes sense!

 

[Kris]

It definitely feels like there is exposition missing.

Thor seems to be clearly under the impression that he is not allowed to speak to his mum about her future, and going by their plan on how to take the Aether that would also have applied to Jane Foster.

The time platform appears to be essential to travel forward in time, while the GPS devices and suits allow you to only travel backwards. It feels like that should have been explained a bit better.

If you think about it the machine is kinda the doorway back into the present moment (normal timeline). The reason they can go back without a machine because there are events before to go back to. They would not be able to travel to a future moment without a platform.

 

[samsnee]

In truth, once a movie is released it is up to the viewer on how they interpret it. The Russos can state their intent, but that doesn't necessarily mean even they were right.

And I'm sure they didn't try to make it airtight because they want to focus on the emotional element of the story, not necessarily the scientific one, at that point. Which I think is the right call.

 

[Thome216]

I kind of wish that the Russos didn't explain it and left it up to the viewers to decide and instead offer how either theory works.

Personally I like the thought that Steve was still in the main timeline and he had always been Peggy's husband a la time also being a flat circle. I know some have said how could he just sit and let the bad things happen, but it also seems consistent with Steve that the right thing is to not tamper with anything in case it leads to Thanos being victorious.

I dunno. I just know I loved the final scene.

Totally agree. I'd much rather that there is only one universe where all the possibilities happened and all exist side-by-side, paradoxes-be-damned.

So even though Thanos jumped from 2014 to 2019, Infinity War still happened and he still won. And though Gamora jumped from 2014 to a time past her death, she still died getting the Soul Stone. And though Loki was brought back to Asgard by Thor, he still escaped before that could happen.

Paradoxes! Answers to everything!

 

[Mutant 77]

Fox's time travel is simple. It's "we don't care and neither should you."

If you consider "First Class" as a soft reboot, even before accounting the time travel in DOFP, everything is 100% fine.

The time travel in DOFP was well-thought.

 

[Kris]

Hi all,

Thought I had it figured out, just one thing I don’t get. If Cap goes back to put the stones back, he obviously goes to the points just after they were taken and puts them back. When he goes back even further and decides to live with Peggy does he get to a point where Loki gets tesseract or does he live through the normal timeline again. If he has to put the stones back the fact they took the stones in the first place affected the past so what reality does old cap live through?