Endgame Lets talk the Loki Timeline (spoilers included)

[Flash525]

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but I wouldn't mind a discussion focused on it. The Avengers went back in time to collect the infinity stones and to then return to the present, use them, and then return them to their rightful place as to not effect the timeline. Right.

The scene between Banner and the Ancient One went into this in some detail, with her saying that if the timeline was changed, there'd be a new, dark branch that threw off a new timeline. Bruce then debunked her simply stating that if they put the stones back where they took them from, there wouldn't be a change.

Sounds like a solid plan, at least until the accident in NY where Loki escapes using the Tesseract. At the end of the Avengers (prime timeline) Loki is taken to Asgard and locked in a cell, the Tesseract taken to Odin's vault. Through this, Loki assists Thor in defeating the Dark Elves, dies, returns to Asgard, tricks Odin to Earth, and takes over.

The comes Ragnarok, where Loki again has a huge part to play, then Infinity War where he dies. Now, if Loki used the Tesseract to escape NY, he'd not end up in the Asgardian prison, wouldn't escape, wouldn't fake his death, wouldn't temporarily rule Asgard, Odin wouldn't be tricked (and in turn, may not die), Loki wouldn't end up on Sakaar, rescue his people from Hela, and then subsequently be killed by Thanos.

Is Loki existing on one of those other timelines now? Presumably one where the events of Thor 2, Thor Ragnarok, and both Infinity War and Endgame happened (if at all) differently for him?

 

[COCOS]

he had a whole tv show coming, so we'll see soon enough...

 

[metaphysician]

There are even more important effects. With Loki escaped and not imprisoned, Asgard likely fairs better against the inevitable Dark Elf attack ( since Loki doesn't provide the direction that allows Kurse to sabotage the palace's defenses ), Frigga doesn't die, and all kinds of things happen thusly. Also, it presumably takes longer for Asgard to rebuild the Bifrost, the Nine Realms go into chaos for longer, and Thor might be stuck on Earth.

 

[Bren]

We (well, the half of us left) are all bowing to Lord Loki who is a vassal to Thanos.

 

[Kris]

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but I wouldn't mind a discussion focused on it. The Avengers went back in time to collect the infinity stones and to then return to the present, use them, and then return them to their rightful place as to not effect the timeline. Right.

The scene between Banner and the Ancient One went into this in some detail, with her saying that if the timeline was changed, there'd be a new, dark branch that threw off a new timeline. Bruce then debunked her simply stating that if they put the stones back where they took them from, there wouldn't be a change.

Sounds like a solid plan, at least until the accident in NY where Loki escapes using the Tesseract. At the end of the Avengers (prime timeline) Loki is taken to Asgard and locked in a cell, the Tesseract taken to Odin's vault. Through this, Loki assists Thor in defeating the Dark Elves, dies, returns to Asgard, tricks Odin to Earth, and takes over.

The comes Ragnarok, where Loki again has a huge part to play, then Infinity War where he dies. Now, if Loki used the Tesseract to escape NY, he'd not end up in the Asgardian prison, wouldn't escape, wouldn't fake his death, wouldn't temporarily rule Asgard, Odin wouldn't be tricked (and in turn, may not die), Loki wouldn't end up on Sakaar, rescue his people from Hela, and then subsequently be killed by Thanos.

Is Loki existing on one of those other timelines now? Presumably one where the events of Thor 2, Thor Ragnarok, and both Infinity War and Endgame happened (if at all) differently for him?

I think the discussion between Banner and the Ancient One explains how putting the stones back prevents the altered timeline going ahead without a stone, the altered timeline would still go ahead even when the stone is replaced, it just means that it isn’t an imbalanced timeline (without the stone). An example would be when Nebula and War Machine get the power stone. War Machine returns and Nebula is hacked and Thanos finds out about the plan. He travels to the future etc. If you were to stay in that timeline Thanos would not exist past 2014. Now, when cap goes back to replace the stone he is in that timeline, where Thanos will travel to the future and not exist. That will not change, what will change is it will not lose a power stone as cap went back to replace it.

This is the bit I struggle with. If cap goes back to replace the last stone and then back further to live a life with Peggy, he is creating a new timeline but on the base timeline where Loki takes the tesseract. Surely this event will happen during Old caps lifetime? If anyone has ideas on this let me know!

 

[Flash525]

I think the discussion between Banner and the Ancient One explains how putting the stones back prevents the altered timeline going ahead without a stone, the altered timeline would still go ahead even when the stone is replaced, it just means that it isn’t an imbalanced timeline (without the stone). An example would be when Nebula and War Machine get the power stone. War Machine returns and Nebula is hacked and Thanos finds out about the plan. He travels to the future etc. If you were to stay in that timeline Thanos would not exist past 2014. Now, when cap goes back to replace the stone he is in that timeline, where Thanos will travel to the future and not exist. That will not change, what will change is it will not lose a power stone as cap went back to replace it.

This is the bit I struggle with. If cap goes back to replace the last stone and then back further to live a life with Peggy, he is creating a new timeline but on the base timeline where Loki takes the tesseract. Surely this event will happen during Old caps lifetime? If anyone has ideas on this let me know!

It is/was my understanding that the scene we witness between Peggy and Steve (dancing) takes place after Steve became an icicle. Old Steve would then know where his younger self is, and when, at any given period so he could avoid him(self).

It's also possible that when Peggy tells Steve during his visit to her that she met someone, fell in love, got married etc that she was actually talking about him from the future. The scenes between Steve and Peggy didn't baffle me at all; they made sense as it could have always happened, though it would have been hard for old Steve to not involve himself in any of the events that preceded to erupt; him knowing about Bucky (as the winter soldier), the attack on NY, the events of ultron, Hydra etc.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Couldn't Steve theoretically have gone back to the moment the

Spoiler

Tesseract was kicked to loki and prevented him from getting it. Thus ending that timelines split. I mean it would be hard to pull off but still doable

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

There are even more important effects. With Loki escaped and not imprisoned, Asgard likely fairs better against the inevitable Dark Elf attack ( since Loki doesn't provide the direction that allows Kurse to sabotage the palace's defenses ), Frigga doesn't die, and all kinds of things happen thusly. Also, it presumably takes longer for Asgard to rebuild the Bifrost, the Nine Realms go into chaos for longer, and Thor might be stuck on Earth.

Spoiler

I'm blanking on why Loki getting the Cube would mean it takes longer to rebuild the Bifrost?After he jets with it I get the other stuff you are saying but how would that affect how long the Bifrost gets rebuilt?

 

[Kris]

Couldn't Steve theoretically have gone back to the moment the

Spoiler

Tesseract was kicked to loki and prevented him from getting it. Thus ending that timelines split. I mean it would be hard to pull off but still doable

That is a possibility, but now i’m thinking that any point you go back on the timeline you follow the branch that comes next.

So, all these new timelines were created by the avengers going back to get the stones. Steve, at the end goes back to replace the stones. So with the power stone for example, let’s say Cap appeared on morag just before It was taken and hid in the background. He would see war machine take power stone and nebula get hacked, then he would come out from the background and say “I have the power stone” and replace it. If he didn’t jump back to replace the next stone and stayed in that timeline he would be in the the timeline where Thanos finds out about the plan, jumps to the future and doesn’t exist.

I’m halfway through writing this and my head hurts. There is a lot of followers waiting for the person that can YouTube this and explain the whole thing 100%.

 

[djsunyc]

Couldn't Steve theoretically have gone back to the moment the

Spoiler

Tesseract was kicked to loki and prevented him from getting it. Thus ending that timelines split. I mean it would be hard to pull off but still doable

yes - but he didn't know that happened and there were 2 tesseracts that needed replacing. so no win situation. and technically - we don't know which one he replaced but chances are it was the 1970 on so loki can have his alternate timeline series on disney+

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Just something interesting about ol' Loki.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]