LHC Particle Masher thread... (Quest for "Theory of EVerything")

[November Rain]

Well why wouldn't we assume the same thing of AIDS or any other disease research? Aren't there special interest groups *cough* drug companies *cough* that might want to hold onto any vaccines and make a profit off them??

True, very true although however if the goverment sponsors were the main sponsors of this research the ability to regulate these prices would be easier. It's far harder with infrastructure on that scale to vary the price of manufacturing.

Saying that, AIDS, just came up and is one of quite a few social issues that are affecting us now.

Not that AIDS research isn't important, but how is it considered "short term?" How many years have we been working on AIDS? How much money have we spent on it? Again, not saying it wasn't money/time well spent but I'd hardly call it a "short term issue."

I say short term as a relative thing. it is affecting people now, today, hundreds of millions of people and effective research as well as good public awareness and some religious aid could help erradicate it within a generation or two.

But there are other issues, such as unemployment, crime, the health services (again I'm speaking from a UK point of view where these services are funded by tax payers), the allocation of such a large amount of money towards the research is perhaps irresponsible when there are things that could be helped now.

This goes along with Fat Tonie's post below. And I don't have all the information here, but how much money was really given to this project by the government? And did the source of this money REALLY effect the money granted to those projects you deem more important? You seem to be implying that any shortfall in funds to "important Socio-econimical problems" is directly related to the misappropriation of funds to non-essential research? I just don't know that that is entirely the case.

this is an extract directly from it's page on wikipedia

I'm sorry if deeming poverty, welfare, education, disease and world faming as 'deemed' important rather than an experiment which is likely to arouse more questions than answers that is IF it works. Why not plough that work into areas where we could definitely see some results rather than hoping this experiment would provide something useful as an by-product.

it really is just a quest for knowledge on a large scale to try and piece together why we are here and how we all formed.

The total cost of the project is expected to be €3.2–6.4 billion.[3] The construction of LHC was approved in 1995 with a budget of 2.6 billion Swiss francs (€1.6 billion), with another 210 million francs (€140 million) towards the cost of the experiments. However, cost over-runs, estimated in a major review in 2001 at around 480 million francs (€300 million) for the accelerator, and 50 million francs (€30 million) for the experiments, along with a reduction in CERN's budget, pushed the completion date from 2005 to April 2007.[20] The superconducting magnets were responsible for 180 million francs (€120 million) of the cost increase. There were also engineering difficulties encountered while building the underground cavern for the Compact Muon Solenoid, in part due to faulty parts loaned to CERN by fellow laboratories Argonne National Laboratory, Fermilab, and KEK.[21]
David King, the former Chief Scientific Officer for the United Kingdom, has criticised the LHC for taking a higher priority for funds than solving the Earth's major challenges; principally climate change, but also population growth and poverty in Africa.[22]

Throwing all available cash at a problem isn't always the answer. If you shut down everything else and throw all the money you have at one problem your going to have wasted money and people either standing around or doing redundant work.

Hypothetically, if they run this experiment and discover a clean, cheap, renewable energy that would solve the worlds energy problems.....would your tune change or would it still be less important than AIDS research?

Again, I'm saying allocating money accordingly needs to be the answer. The research isn't being done to find clean cheap renewable energy, it's not one of its goals. Your hypothesis could be used to justify any experiment on any scale but in the world of business, it isn't applicable.

Throwing cash at a problem isn't going to solve it but taking eyes of it certainly is and I haven't once seen a justifyable answer to why this experiment and the approximate 5 billion pounds (10 billion dollars) spent on it is worth the time, money and resources spent while plenty of other areas are talking of budget cuts and many other areas of research aren't retaining their funding because they pitches aren't as awe inspiring.

I work in research so i know how annoying it can be when yourself and someone else are bidding for funding and the new exciting one wins, especially if it continues to suck the budget it originally received after its bid

meh.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The LHC will be down for a few months and from what some of the CERN people told me yesterday they do not expect it to produce real results until 2010.

 

[November Rain]

have you invested in it Ahura?

 

[Ahura Mazda]

No I have not, as the returns, if any, do not meet my requirements. i just find it intellectually to be an interesting topic and something which could lead to certain technologocal breakthroughs even though it is not likely.

 

[Alex The Great]

I bet it'll explode in 2012. The Mayans are right again!

 

[Arcturus]

edit.

 

[BlackLantern]

lol Im too young to do anything, however i would like to see some protests or something like that. Hopefully they will come to their senses and turn it off and never speak of it again

I'm still waiting for an answer to why they should do that....

 

[Carcharodon]

I'm still waiting for an answer to why they should do that....

There isn't a good answer. There's no reason to worry. People hear "black hole" without knowing what the hell a black hole even IS (or the conditions under which it would exist) and they panic. They don't realize that particle collision is something that's been studied for years and years now, and it's just been scaled up.

People have this inane and ignorant perception of science and of scientists that they follow no ethical codes or guidelines in their research. They have stuck in their minds images of so-called "mad scientists" that don't consider the consequences of their actions (when in reality scientists are inherently and by far more aware of the consequences of their actions, certainly moreso than the general public).

 

[craigdbfan]

LHC Shuts Down (Temporarily)


The particle collider that gave scientists a glimpse of what may be the Higgs Boson shut down Thursday for a two-year revamp that will allow it to pursue the quest with renewed vigor.

Um ok.

 

[Piper Maru]

Gordon!