Lindy Hemming IS the costume designer

[John-An]

Welcome to the official thread of the costume designer of Wonder Woman.

Her past with superheroes was not so brillaint in the opinion of many BUT there's something called improving and of course change of director (the director influences in a costume, so her work must fit the vision of the director and the world he was trying to adapt, no matter how ugly you think TDK batsuit is, I agree, but it was perfect for Nolan's world) you can say whatever about TDK costumes, but we are talking about an OSCAR winner designer here and a different world.

Especially in the WWI clothes and Amazons clothes (Diana's is GORGEOUS) she has done a really, really good job.

You can talk whatever you want about her work and stuff that the production publishes about the costumes here

 

[OutOfBoose]

It's Lindy Hemming? Holy damn... Didn't know that.

She did marvelous job with costumes in TDK trilogy (outside the batsuit).

 

[KillerWolf]

I won't be clutching this thread with Hemming's many shortcomings as a costume designer, but will instead focus on some aspects of the Themyscirian armor I do find interesting...

While I do think that Hyppolita's and Menalippe's costumes are overdesigned and do appear too advanced and SF-like (Wilkinson did a much better job at making Diana's costume appear more grounded - modern in craft, but belonging to an ancient civilization in design), I do like the armor of common soldiers and I do like the fact that they have their own thing going on and are rather unique, instead of being purely Grecian in style (though they do retain some of its elements). Basically, I find them to be a middle ground between Pre-New 52, very ancient Greece inspired Amazons and New 52, more crude and primitive ones.

Pre-New 52:

New 52:

DCEU:

Now, what DCEU Amazons wear does retain some Grecian elements such as bronze body contouring armor and leather skirt called pteruges, but the way the leather bodice and metal upper chest armor combine is rather unique, especially when it comes to those half-pieces that create an aesthetic that is clearly a nod to the myth of Amazons being one-breasted. The pteruges as well have more of a unique look, being in a shape that truly does look like feather (pteruges actually means "feathers") and being quite long, which is something I'm not very fond of as it's rather impractical. But this is always the case with movie armors, I'll get to that more later...

Jenkins herself has said next: "Themyscira is influenced by the Greek but it’s clearly more then that. It’s a place that has the ‘you’ve never been to’ kind of feel. To me, they shouldn’t be dressed in armor like men, it should be different. It should be authentic and real – and appealing to women.”
And I do kinda get the impression that it is an armor designed by women for women with the aesthetic they went with.

What I do find especially interesting is the recurring eagle or bird theme with those outfits - Diana (in her WW outfit, I believe her regular one as seen above is that of a new recruit or a student) and Hippolyta both have eagle crests on their armors, Antiope has an eagle on her shield and a studded leather skirt in the shape of a bird's tale and Menalippe and aforementioned common soldiers have these long, feather-shaped pteruges that create something of a bird's tale aesthetic as well.

As for the practicality, armors are not entirely practical, but that's Hollywood for you... it's expected. To be honest, even the way Diana carries her sword on the back is completely impractical and was not how swords were truly carried historically (there's a reason why such way of carrying a sword is called "Hollywood style") - idea has always been to be able to draw the sword as quickly as possible, while immediately getting into defensive position... by carrying the sword sheathed on the back, it doesn't just take more time to draw it if the sudden attack happens, but one would completely expose him/herself for the arrows or melee attacks that way. Longswords were carried like a soldier would carry a rifle, over ones shoulder. Anyway, I digress...

I already mentioned the length of those pteruges, which by the way don't really offer that much of a protection (they are pretty much useless against direct attack) and are, similarly to Roman cingulum, being primarily there for aesthetic reasons and the sake of modesty (of course, cingulum was also a badge of rank in the Roman army).
High heels (or more correctly - wedges) are probably the most impractical thing, though I do believe they are meant to add more height to the actors, so I'm willing to give it a pass... they probably won't be seen much in the film and they do wear flat footwear as well.
As for the probably most ridiculous thing in fiction ever - the notorious breast armor, yeah, it is as impractical as one would assume. Armor is meant to deflect a weapon, so there shouldn't really be any dents and cavities, as it makes it easier for the tip of a sword or a spear to penetrate the armor there... such dent between breasts would mean that it makes it easier for the enemy to go straight for the heart. However, one and only thing that redeems this to an extent is the fact that the aesthetic is being Grecian-inspired, making it a female version of the male ancient Greek muscle cuirass that historically did exist:

I probably bored to death any unfortunate soul that courageously embarked in tackling this wall of text, but these are some things I took from the Themyscirian design we saw so far, which I found to be interesting (not expecting anyone else to share my sentiment). Anyway, to make a long story short (way too late!), there is an interesting concept behind these outfits that I like and that for most part does end up looking good. Despite Hemming being involved.

 

[haephestus]

I enjoyed your post KillerWolf. It was very informative.

I don't mind the costumes. They're not what I would have chosen, but they're probably a decent middle ground between what I would like to see (i.e. traditional Greek / Roman armour with 5,000 years of development and refinement) and what I would hate to see (i.e. entirely impractical, T&A-focused leather mini-dresses and bikinis teamed with extra-high spiked heeled boots).

I do like that the colour palette is somewhat consistent as it signifies a single "culture" and gives the impression of an "army", even though each Amazon appears to be free to tailor their armour to meet their particular preferences. It will be interesting to see whether they explain why Diana's "armour" is red and blue instead of the widely used gold / bronze that every other Amazon wears. I'm guessing it's because it is the Amazon's "champion" armour or something similar and is therefore meant to stand out from the crowd.

Going forward, I would personally like to see the bodice of Wonder Woman's armour changed to something more similar to Queen Hippolyta's armour (i.e. provide coverage / protection up to the neck instead of being a strapless bodice).

 

[KillerWolf]

Thanks. It is much appreciated.

Anyway, I was also keen on that idea of having a familiar ancient design meeting more advanced craft, but I must say that I also like those a bit more crude and unique outfits for most part. Again, especially ones of the common soldiers. And the fact that they have uniformed and unified look, with some personal tweaks is something that I like as well. It's pretty much how a real army looks like unless when on a parade or something...

As for Diana's armor, I was also of mind that it is a champion armor of a sort... or perhaps a custom made one for the princess. Both of those could have an eagle crest on it, so they are equally likely possibilities. I don't think it is made by the gods though, as it retains the same aesthetic as the rest of Amazonian armor. And Menalippe has a more colorful one as well, with those pteruges and bodice being of a red-purplish shade.

When we were discussing costumes, before they showed us how Wonder Woman looks like, I always thought they would give her a more reasonable armor and would cover her up more. I can't fault them for staying true to the comic book's aesthetic though. And I guess one could explain Diana wearing more revealing armor, by her being invulnerable anyway and her personal preference of being more flexible.

By the way, now we got some set pics of Amazons in dark armor with purple capes:

They immediately reminded me of Roman Praetorian guard that would wear crimson or purple capes. Both colors were a symbol of royalty, particularly purple which was quite expensive. Don't know if that should be the case with Themyscira, but I do get an elite guard vibe out of them. Could be because of these preconceptions of mine though.

 

[haephestus]

They immediately reminded me of Roman Praetorian guard that would wear crimson or purple capes. Both colors were a symbol of royalty, particularly purple which was quite expensive. Don't know if that should be the case with Themyscira, but I do get an elite guard vibe out of them. Could be because of these preconceptions of mine though.

Me too. The armour also seems to be more .. "refined" or well-crafted which to me indicates higher level soldiers. And with the exception of the Amazon not wearing a helmet, the armour also appears to be identical, with no variation in design. That might also indicate some kind of elite guard as opposed to general soldiers or individual high-ranking soldiers.

In the other thread, someone suggested that this Amazonian armour could be from a different time period which may also be true. It does seem to be more "traditional" Greek / Roman armour, so perhaps it is from when Themyscira was first settled or created and the Amazons eventually evolved into the other armour which we've seen?

 

[KillerWolf]

Me too. The armour also seems to be more .. "refined" or well-crafted which to me indicates higher level soldiers. And with the exception of the Amazon not wearing a helmet, the armour also appears to be identical, with no variation in design. That might also indicate some kind of elite guard as opposed to general soldiers or individual high-ranking soldiers.

In the other thread, someone suggested that this Amazonian armour could be from a different time period which may also be true. It does seem to be more "traditional" Greek / Roman armour, so perhaps it is from when Themyscira was first settled or created and the Amazons eventually evolved into the other armour which we've seen?

It is hard to tell without a better look up close. Could be that they're wearing similar ones to Antiope's studded leather armor with dark metal upper chest part, but it is a more fully armored look from those we've seen so far and definitely reminds of the typical Grecian (and by extension, Roman) armor in design. Or rather, contour, as it is too afar to say with certainty.

But I do have a feeling that KRYPTON hit the mark with the theory that those are Amazons from other era.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I probably bored to death any unfortunate soul that courageously embarked in tackling this wall of text, but these are some things I took from the Themyscirian design we saw so far, which I found to be interesting (not expecting anyone else to share my sentiment). Anyway, to make a long story short (way too late!), there is an interesting concept behind these outfits that I like and that for most part does end up looking good. Despite Hemming being involved.

Hey, I'm always interested in armor and ancient weaponry, etc. Not nearly as well-versed in it as you, but that made your post especially interesting to me.

I kind of hate the chaps and boots look in that photo... I do prefer something more Hellenistic, bare thigh, flat-soled sandals and bronze greaves. It feels like, "oh, we didn't want them to be too naked," never mind that Greek men of that time fought without much clothes at all, just a few pieces of bronze armor and maybe a tunic.

I do like that the colour palette is somewhat consistent as it signifies a single "culture" and gives the impression of an "army", even though each Amazon appears to be free to tailor their armour to meet their particular preferences. It will be interesting to see whether they explain why Diana's "armour" is red and blue instead of the widely used gold / bronze that every other Amazon wears. I'm guessing it's because it is the Amazon's "champion" armour or something similar and is therefore meant to stand out from the crowd.

Depending on which version of her origin they want to use, it may just be some variation on the old thing about dressing their ambassador/emissary/champion in the colors of the country she is visiting, if she is indeed returning Captain Trevor to his homeland...though from what I've seen it doesn't necessarily look like that's the case, and anyway a WWI pilot probably wouldn't be flying over the sea, so I have no idea what they're up to.

I've heard that Greek warriors may have decorated their armor with painted symbols, etc, unqiue to their own tastes. I have no idea if that is true, perhaps KillerWolf would have some thoughts on that. In any case it's not hard to imagine hers being different for any number of reasons.

Going forward, I would personally like to see the bodice of Wonder Woman's armour changed to something more similar to Queen Hippolyta's armour (i.e. provide coverage / protection up to the neck instead of being a strapless bodice).

You know, I feel that... but I'm torn because I also like the way BvS made her look more or less like the traditional Wonder Woman we all know, but more armored. I think it's a pretty damn good compromise.

 

[teardrop]

I really like the DCEU Wonder Woman costume as it's a mixture of traditional comic look and various update attempts.

to me, Wonder Woman costume/armor is symbolic, ceremonial in essence. against any opponents that can really serious hurt her, no armor can actually protect her anyways.

would like to see her don different armors in the JL movies and especially more solo movies when occasion arises, like these

 

[teardrop]

so far I'm very impressed by the costume design and execution; actually not just the costume, but the overall art direction. there are WWI period details and imaginary paradise island stuff.

very rare for not just cbm, but for any genre.

 

[KillerWolf]

Hey, I'm always interested in armor and ancient weaponry, etc. Not nearly as well-versed in it as you, but that made your post especially interesting to me.

I kind of hate the chaps and boots look in that photo... I do prefer something more Hellenistic, bare thigh, flat-soled sandals and bronze greaves. It feels like, "oh, we didn't want them to be too naked," never mind that Greek men of that time fought without much clothes at all, just a few pieces of bronze armor and maybe a tunic.

Well, thanks. I am glad that you've found it interesting. Keep in mind that I am not truly an expert, though... it has been primarily my hobby for many years and a part of my education to a much lesser extent.

I agree about those "chaps" as you call them. I don't like them at all and they shouldn't have been included. This might sound sexist or as if I'm not getting laid as regularly as I should, but their legs should definitely be less covered. Not only that those leather parts they wear under the greaves stand out quite a bit from the rest of the costumes, but they don't really make any sense in the context... there's just no purpose to them - they don't provide any protection and if we're to go by the ancient Greeks and many cultures of the time, it can't be for the sake of modesty, as they admired the physique of an athletic body and did not find the nudity as shameful as we do today, much less uncovered legs. Those parts are only pieces of costume that are pretty much clearly there to avoid making the Amazons over-sexualized. But things like this are unique to each culture and change through time, so sometimes you can't go fully historically accurate if you want today's audience to watch it and take the film seriously. I am proponent of historical accuracy before everything else, but on the other hand, I can understand such changes in films.

And I suppose if we're to give them purpose, it could be said that they're there to protect the skin from metal greaves that get heated in the sun (still, the simpler solution would be to have the leather inside the greaves themselves). As for the sandals, ancient Greeks actually did wear soft footwear as well, not much different to those the Amazons above wear. And we should keep in mind that Amazons, while existing in ancient Greek myths, are supposed to be a culture of their own.

And when it comes to the Greek warriors decorating their armors, as far as I know, they would occasionally custom paint their shields with animals, geometric patterns or depictions of particular scene, not really the cuirass itself. They'd also engrave or emboss their helmets and crests and horse's hair would be put on helmets as well, but this was all typical for high-ranking officers or soldiers from rich families, not your common soldier. But, yeah, there is indeed number of ways to explain Diana's outfit being different, though I don't find it to be much different, which is something I do like, as for once it doesn't stand out that much. It is more colorful and a bit less armored, but other than that, it fits with what we've seen of Themyscirian aesthetic well. There were ceremonial and parade outfits of a sort, or a custom made ones that were clearly more colorful and aesthetically pleasing than your typical armor, so there's nothing strange with WW outfit within that context.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Well, thanks. I am glad that you've found it interesting. Keep in mind that I am not truly an expert, though... it has been primarily my hobby for many years and a part of my education to a much lesser extent.

I get you. But even so, you're more versed in it than I am. What I know comes largely from art history classes 20 years ago when I studied art in college. Anything else I know about ancient armor or weaponry would be suspect as it comes from games and such, so I don't rely too heavily on that stuff except in having learned words like "greaves," "vambraces," fauld," "cuirass," etc.

I agree about those "chaps" as you call them. I don't like them at all and they shouldn't have been included. This might sound sexist or as if I'm not getting laid as regularly as I should, but their legs should definitely be less covered. Not only that those leather parts they wear under the greaves stand out quite a bit from the rest of the costumes, but they don't really make any sense in the context... there's just no purpose to them - they don't provide any protection and if we're to go by the ancient Greeks and many cultures of the time, it can't be for the sake of modesty, as they admired the physique of an athletic body and did not find the nudity as shameful as we do today, much less uncovered legs. Those parts are only pieces of costume that are pretty much clearly there to avoid making the Amazons over-sexualized. But things like this are unique to each culture and change through time, so sometimes you can't go fully historically accurate if you want today's audience to watch it and take the film seriously. I am proponent of historical accuracy before everything else, but on the other hand, I can understand such changes in films.

All of that is exactly my point as well. We know in Hellenistic cultures the attitude towards nudity was different; it was a male-dominated culture and, particularly in the early days, they expected modesty in women, but men used public baths and athletes performed in the nude, coated in oil. This is also why ancient Greek statues of gods and great war heroes are usually nude, because nudity was associated with strength and general badassness. It's not hard to imagine a female-dominated culture of a similar bent would thus treat women in a similar fashion, thus not sexualizing them but viewing female nudity as a symbol of might and glory. Of course, I would not expect to see the Amazons naked in any film or comic, and as you said, they're not meant to be precisely Greek, so they can more or less be whatever the storytellers decide they ought to be. But a little leg is just correct for the period, as are short battle-skirts (pteruges, I learned that word from you tonight!) and exposed arms.

And I suppose if we're to give them purpose, it could be said that they're there to protect the skin from metal greaves that get heated in the sun (still, the simpler solution would be to have the leather inside the greaves themselves). As for the sandals, ancient Greeks actually did wear soft footwear as well, not much different to those the Amazons above wear. And we should keep in mind that Amazons, while existing in ancient Greek myths, are supposed to be a culture of their own.

The leggings might also be good if you're mounted on horseback, I suppose.

And when it comes to the Greek warriors decorating their armors, as far as I know, they would occasionally custom paint their shields with animals, geometric patterns or depictions of particular scene, not really the cuirass itself. They'd also engrave or emboss their helmets and crests and horse's hair would be put on helmets as well, but this was all typical for high-ranking officers or soldiers from rich families, not your common soldier. But, yeah, there is indeed number of ways to explain Diana's outfit being different, though I don't find it to be much different, which is something I do like, as for once it doesn't stand out that much. It is more colorful and a bit less armored, but other than that, it fits with what we've seen of Themyscirian aesthetic well. There were ceremonial and parade outfits of a sort, or a custom made ones that were clearly more colorful and aesthetically pleasing than your typical armor, so there's nothing strange with WW outfit within that context.

Oh I agree, the armor in these photos definitely matches with Wonder Woman's costume, and I appreciate that as well. I always want her costume to be functional, first and foremost, and to retain the iconic look we associate with her in some clear and bold way. Zack Snyder has a background in Art History, so I suspect he knew exactly what he wanted to see when he was approving designs for BvS.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I really like the DCEU Wonder Woman costume as it's a mixture of traditional comic look and various update attempts.

to me, Wonder Woman costume/armor is symbolic, ceremonial in essence. against any opponents that can really serious hurt her, no armor can actually protect her anyways.

would like to see her don different armors in the JL movies and especially more solo movies when occasion arises, like these

I'm not crazy about the Valkyrie look, but I'd love to see her in a helmet and cape and with maybe some extra armor on her shoulders, not all of the time but when she's doing full-on warrior goddess-style badassery or something, it'd sure be awesome as hell to have her geared up a little more.

Still, like you said, she's nigh invulnerable and not only that, she's easily the best fighter in the DC Universe, lightweight gear that doesn't impede her mobility or flexibility probably is ideal for her, although, she is also hella strong so I guess the added weight isn't a concern...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

This kind of look is my JAM.

 

[Lily Adler]

That costume is the one many fans wanted to see and I was not disappointed.

 

[haephestus]

This kind of look is my JAM.

I really like the Donna Troy as Wonder Woman costume.

But, I don't think it went over very well. I especially liked that it gave Diana her own colour palette of gold, silver and brown, with a touch of red and white.

 

[KillerWolf]

I get you. But even so, you're more versed in it than I am. What I know comes largely from art history classes 20 years ago when I studied art in college. Anything else I know about ancient armor or weaponry would be suspect as it comes from games and such, so I don't rely too heavily on that stuff except in having learned words like "greaves," "vambraces," fauld," "cuirass," etc.

I was into historical sword fighting for a solid period of time and have studied archeology for a short while, but most of my knowledge on this subject comes from seeking out such literature on my own. Yeah, games are rarely accurate when it comes to the armor and weaponry, either being anachronistic or mixing styles of different cultures, though there is something to learn on a basic level, despite that... I believe I also heard most of those terms when I was playing RPGs as a kid. t:

All of that is exactly my point as well. We know in Hellenistic cultures the attitude towards nudity was different; it was a male-dominated culture and, particularly in the early days, they expected modesty in women, but men used public baths and athletes performed in the nude, coated in oil. This is also why ancient Greek statues of gods and great war heroes are usually nude, because nudity was associated with strength and general badassness. It's not hard to imagine a female-dominated culture of a similar bent would thus treat women in a similar fashion, thus not sexualizing them but viewing female nudity as a symbol of might and glory. Of course, I would not expect to see the Amazons naked in any film or comic, and as you said, they're not meant to be precisely Greek, so they can more or less be whatever the storytellers decide they ought to be. But a little leg is just correct for the period, as are short battle-skirts (pteruges, I learned that word from you tonight!) and exposed arms.

Agreed.

The leggings might also be good if you're mounted on horseback, I suppose.

Good thinking... this could work as well.

Oh I agree, the armor in these photos definitely matches with Wonder Woman's costume, and I appreciate that as well. I always want her costume to be functional, first and foremost, and to retain the iconic look we associate with her in some clear and bold way. Zack Snyder has a background in Art History, so I suspect he knew exactly what he wanted to see when he was approving designs for BvS.

Yeah, it hits the middle ground between being functional and retaining the aesthetic of the comic book costume. Again, her armor is too revealing to be entirely functional, but, if it's really needed, it could be justified by Diana being pretty much invulnerable and her personal preference of remaining more flexible and mobile in battle. And, as I already said, I can't really blame them for staying true to the costume from the comics, when it comes to the shape of the armor. They did all the changes that were necessary - gave her skirt and armor, so I'm happy with the design.

 

[KillerWolf]

Just noticed that woman on the far left seems to have bronze/gold armor along with purple cape, instead of the dark one others wear. I assume her to be an officer of the purple caped Amazons. She also looks a bit like Doutzen Kroes to me, who seemingly has a role in the film, though it's too far to tell:

 

[John-An]

Circe confirmed

 

[KillerWolf]

Not sure if it's due to lighting or what, but armor plates look much less bronzish here:

Kinda reminds me of armor from "Amazons Attack!" run, especially with these long pteruges (which I am still not a fan of):

 

[KillerWolf]

 

[KillerWolf]

 

[TheRedWraith]

I'm not crazy about the Valkyrie look, but I'd love to see her in a helmet and cape and with maybe some extra armor on her shoulders, not all of the time but when she's doing full-on warrior goddess-style badassery or something, it'd sure be awesome as hell to have her geared up a little more.

Still, like you said, she's nigh invulnerable and not only that, she's easily the best fighter in the DC Universe, lightweight gear that doesn't impede her mobility or flexibility probably is ideal for her, although, she is also hella strong so I guess the added weight isn't a concern...

I wouldn't mind a helmet that looks like it is based on the Tiara only with an added nose guard as I loved the way the nose guard on the tiara looked when it was drawn by Jim Lee in ASBAR.

 

[KillerWolf]

Ah, this?:

I generally like how bulky Jim Lee used to draw tiara, even the regular one:

Looks almost like a helmet, fitting for a warrior.

 

[Dark Raven]

In the EW article, why does it talk about Lindy Hemming as if she designed the WW costume? That's not her work. I don't know if the bits they talk about are just some tweaks she made (like the work on the bracelets) or if they're just talking generally and assuming because Hemming is this movie's designer that she created the costume before.