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Lucas' notes from the 80's

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episodes I - III' started by Sundancer, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Sundancer Cynicist

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    http://www.themarysue.com/george-lu..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=crowdignite.com


    Gotta admit, I like this way better.
     
  2. Llama_Shepherd Registered

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    I don't I much prefer that Yoda is a jedi, not a guru and the force is only accessible to Jedi/Jedi bloodlines.
     
  3. Human Torch Registered

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    I like Yoda being a "Great warrior" better than a Guru.But I like the idea that anybody could tune into the Force with enough effort/instruction.
     
  4. justpassinby Registered

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    Eh. On the one hand that stuff undeniably sounds cooler than the prequels, on the other hand they contradict the bloodline/warrior stuff that was included in the movies (80s), and might've been cooler there than these notes.

    I like the idea of Yoda being "above swordfighting" rather than being powerless in combat, but whatever. I forget, did Lucas start claiming the prequels to be his "original vision" around the turn of the century, or not that much actually?
     
  5. Wheels Groovy

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    I hate the idea that only people of a certain bloodline can be Jedi. I mean a child growing up in this universe, who wants to be a Jedi, can't because he doesn't have the right DNA? That sucks. I understand that comes from the old idea that only those of noble birth can be knights, but I don't like that old European caste system stuff.

    I actually do like Yoda as an active Jedi though. A little old guy who doesn't look like much, is in fact, a great warrior; that's a change that worked for me.
     
  6. Human Torch Registered

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    I think originally the reason behind Yoda not being a "fighter" is part of the question why didn't he and Ben try to take on Vader & The Emperor?

    Even in ROTS,Yoda & Palps are pretty evenly matched.Palp gets the upper hand and Yoda goes "No mas.I'm done."They didn't really have a valid reason to sit on their hands for 20 years and hope Luke &/or Leia could do a better job.

    Had it gone as originally planned,Ben wasn't strong enough to beat the Emperor and would be hard pressed to beat Vader who was "more machine than man" at that point.Yoda couldn't fight.So they had no choice but to wait for a younger student to take up the mantle.
     
  7. doobie Registered

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    I read the John Carter on Mars trilogy a couple of years ago, and there's a character in the last book who is a sword master dwarf alien who bounces off walls and flips around the place, beating everyone, but looks wizened and harmless before he fights. I am sure Lucas read that book sometime in his childhood (as he's a known fan of the series) and kept the image in his head untill CGI let him adapt it. Whether it was Yoda specifically he had in mind who knows. I prefer this interview to the story we finally got anyway. (no prequel hater here, just hated her dying in childbirth).
     
  8. Victarion Iron Captain

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    I've read that Lucas took quite a bit from John Carter. The DNA restriction opens up some interesting possibilities, if you think about it. Let's say a child grows up wanting to be a Jedi, but can't because he or she doesn't have the right midichlorian count. So that child does something else, and learns about some technology that can harvest midichlorians and encapsulate them in a capsid and envelope similar to a virus. Then, that enveloped, capsid-encoated bundle of midichlorians can be injected and make its way into a host cell. Upon entering the host cell's nuclei, the midichlorians begin replicating like a virus, and integrate themselves with the host's genome. Then, similar to the construction and release of a virus from the host cell, midichlorians are released into the host.

    Tl;dr I just made midichlorians work.
     
    #8 Victarion, Oct 4, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  9. Thundercrack85 Registered

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    I have to say the DNA restrictions thing sounds like it rather goes against the spirit of the originals.
     
  10. I'm Old Greg do you love me?

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    Maybe Lucas changed a lot so no one who worked on the OT would be credited with preplanned ideas on his Prequel trilogy.
     
  11. Brother Jack Coffee and Contemplation

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    It's truly mind boggling how much Lucas changed from what he was in that exchange. This is the exact opposite of what he ended up doing with the force and Yoda, two of the most egregious errors he made in the prequels. It's like his whole mindset was completely reversed. From what was logical and consistent to the spirit of what was presented in the OT to the antithesis of that.
     
    TheVileOne likes this.
  12. I'm Old Greg do you love me?

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    Well yeah, his Academy award winning exwife edited STAR WARS and his producer helped him make A New Hope and Empire... then Lucas fired them and everyone got Return Of The Jedi and the Prequels.
     
  13. TheVileOne Registered

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    The idea that you need to have the right blood to use the Force was stupid, and it was always stupid.

    That's why Lucasfilm refuses to mention Midichlorians at all in the new movies. The Force is an energy field that surrounds life and all things. It is in all things and exists everywhere. You simply have to open your mind to it.

    I don't like that they rewrote what happened to Luke and Leia's mother either. That works a lot better than "she's lost the will to live" and Leia telling Luke about her "real mother" who died when she was very young.

    That's because as Lucas pointed out here, when that was written, that was supposed to be her real mother that she remembered!

    But even if you killed off Padme, you could've done a dozen other things that were better than have her die of a "broken heart."
     
  14. Herofan Registered

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    I also don't really see that the Jedi would tend to be either fighters or teachers, the prequels (clearly) combining and valuing both roles makes a lot more sense.

    Never cared much one way or the others for "midichlorians" as they're related to blood but can also at least seem to be pretty random, not much against the idea that anyone can access the Force.
     
  15. MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    I don't like the idea that a wise and knowledgeable jedi being unable to defend themselves. The wiser you are, the more formidable you are. That's how it should be.

    Also some people being more force sensitive implies that there's a sense of order and destiny involved with the force which I like.

    I feel like anyone having the option to be a master jedi or sith would bring imbalance to the force.
     
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  16. TheVileOne Registered

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    Midichlorians are stupid and always were stupid.
     
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  17. Herofan Registered

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    Blood/familial relation to Force strength was already at least implied in ANH and RotJ.
     
  18. TheVileOne Registered

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    I think that's fine. Midichlorians are still dumb.
     
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  19. Bruce Wayne you've done a man's job, sir!

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    Like a lot of things with the prequels, it's the clinical nature of the way midichlorians are discussed and how it sucks out all the romance and mystery from the very idea of the force. It's, and forgive me for regressing to 'Buffy speak' when I say this, the overt 'scientification' of something previously only talked about in supernatural, mystical, even religious terms that fans found/find hard to swallow.
     
  20. Mondragon My other Avi is Gaucho Mickey

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    Agree, of all the things that felt off with the prequals, nothing bothered me more than Yoda tossing his cane then leaping around like a frikin loony-toon.

    Watching Empire as a kid I was absolutely mesmerized seeing the deceptively insignificant Yoda lift an impossible ship out of a swamp, a spiritual, tempered being whose true power, beauty and skill manifest through an absolute calm, serene state of being.
    An unforgettable powerful, beautiful moment and character.

    Lucas 20 years later: Actually Yoda's "strength" is he flips around like a lunatic doing somersaults, cartwheels and spins, like a frikin caricature. (He also works in an office building)
    He lost me.

    Yoda as a master (while he also trained physically) seemed about teaching focus as his means to harnesses the "force", made sense.
    His power came through absolute calm, serenity, while reliance on the physical, weapons or devices, would fail you, and you'd ultimately lose that fight.
    His greatest lesson was to recognizing what you must ultimately confront is whatever you take with you, what you most fear about yourself.

    Luke ultimately recognizing accepting that half of himself, and not fearing it, not letting it control him, switching off his sabre, his father seeing the impossible act he could never do, saved him, brought balance, the Return of the Jedi, what have you.

    So seeing Yoda (retroactively) abandon that calm serenity, for the more physical, jumping around and attacking with a sabre like a cartoonish maniac seemed a complete betrayal of everything the character was. (to me)

    --
    As to Midichlorians (which also rang off) however I never took that as it only manifests in specific bloodlines (that seems like fan misconception), just wherever it does appear(which can be anywhere) , it can be detected/measured.
     
    #20 Mondragon, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  21. henzINNIT Registered

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    I highly doubt Lucas ever had any plans for the prequels beyond Luke's dad going bad and then getting burned up in lava. He likes to mythologize his vision for the franchise but we know too much about the workings behind the scenes to take that seriously.

    Saying Yoda wouldn't fight in the 80's may just be him anticipating potential criticism and trying to give an explanation for why the character isn't more active in the plot. Maybe he had strong views on how Yoda would behave back then, I'm not so sure. The real answer may well have been more like "I couldn't make a puppet fight". Lucas insisted on some pretty bizarre stuff as his original vision later on. I doubt much was ever set in stone.
     
  22. Bruce Wayne you've done a man's job, sir!

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    I enjoyed the implication in the OT that Yoda and the Emperor were far too powerful to even bother with lightsabers. They were beyond that. It's a shame they kind of went back on that in the prequels. The best part of the duel between the Emperor and Yoda isn't when they're dueling with lightsabers, it's when Yoda' absorbing the force lightning in his palm or when the Emperor is literally throwing senate pods (thanks Wookiepedia) at him. Those were the best aspects of that duel, not the ridiculous lightsaber parts.
     
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