The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[random_havoc]

You know if they never made any more Skywalker sage films the fans would riot.

LucasFilm can't win...









....outside of having tremendous critical and box office success.

You have zero evidence of that. It's a baseless claim you're making in order to put down those whose opinions you don't agree with. I, and obviously looking at the backlash, many others came to these prequels wanting and expecting to see Luke as a badass Jedi master. Instead we got a complete loser. Thread title answered

 

[Orba]

One thing I don't get [BLACKOUT]is that if the projection trick was going to kill Luke anyway, why not just go there in person?[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]We don't know that his X-Wing still worked, it had been sitting underwater for about 5 years. Also if you look the door to Luke's hut was made from a piece of an X-Wing indicating that he had been using it for parts.[/BLACKOUT]

Because that way puts Kylo in a "hahah! I killed Luke Skywalker!" place as opposed to "Luke Skywalker, you son of a *****..."

[BLACKOUT]Also this.

If he went in person what would he have done, destroy the whole army by himself? The Clone Wars showed that Jedi were not one person armies (except for maybe in that episode of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars with Mace Windu ), and even if he had stopped one army Kylo would just have sent another and another until Luke eventually went down. If Luke fell at the hands of the First Order it would have been a victory as far as Kylo was concerned, no matter how many of his troops died to do it.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[random_havoc]

I'm sick of the Superman / Christ allegory. Superman isn't Jesus; he's Moses.

Superman began that way but the character imagery changed with time decades ago

 

[Spider-Fan]

You have zero evidence of that. It's a baseless claim you're making in order to put down those whose opinions you don't agree with. I, and obviously looking at the backlash, many others came to these prequels wanting and expecting to see Luke as a badass Jedi master. Instead we got a complete loser. Thread title answered

For me, how is it more interesting if Luke is just amazing at everything? Where is the conflict? On one level, I get it. We have lots of nostalgia for the OT, and we want to see Luke be amazing because to us, he is. But that doesn't mean it is what was best for the story, and the story comes before just offering fan service.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Interesting, thanks to those that responded

 

[Orba]

I imagine some believe that the film should have ended more like this..

[YT]mj07qh51zPI[/YT]

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I imagine some believe that the film should have ended more like this..

[YT]mj07qh51zPI[/YT]

That would have been cool.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What I will say though is that for me Luke's sacrifice would have had a lot more meaning to me if he had been there.

I know he couldn't have defeated the first order all on his own. But drawing Kylo out a different way, and then showing him who's boss before being overwhelmed by them while the remaining rebels escaped would have been better for me.

I hate that he died, and it pisses me off we only got him in one movie of this new trilogy, but I could have accepted it more if the above happened.

 

[danoyse]

You have zero evidence of that. It's a baseless claim you're making in order to put down those whose opinions you don't agree with. I, and obviously looking at the backlash, many others came to these prequels wanting and expecting to see Luke as a badass Jedi master. Instead we got a complete loser. Thread title answered

I can’t believe anyone watched TFA and thought Luke’s immediate next move would be “badness Jedi master.”

I saw TFA, and assumed that after losing his nephew to the dark side, plunging the galaxy into tragedy and chaos, he had withdrawn into hiding trying to live under the weight of all that had gone so terribly wrong, and at this point, reluctant to rejoin the fight.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I can’t believe anyone watched TFA and thought Luke’s immediate next move would be “badness Jedi master.”

I saw TFA, and assumed that after losing his nephew to the dark side, plunging the galaxy into tragedy and chaos, he had withdrawn into hiding trying to live under the weight of all that had gone so terribly wrong, and at this point, reluctant to rejoin the fight.

See, that's not what I got from TFA regarding Luke. I get that he blamed himself for Ben. But Han mentioning Luke going searching for the first Jedi temple implied Luke went there for a solution to Snoke and The First Order, not to hide from them. The solution possibly being a greater understanding and mastery of the Force.

 

[danoyse]

What I will say though is that for me Luke's sacrifice would have had a lot more meaning to me if he had been there.

I know he couldn't have defeated the first order all on his own. But drawing Kylo out a different way, and then showing him who's boss before being overwhelmed by them while the remaining rebels escaped would have been better for me.

I hate that he died, and it pisses me off we only got him in one movie of this new trilogy, but I could have accepted it more if the above happened.

No, it worked better that he wasn't there.

First of all, if was there, "showing who is boss" with some kind of flashy lightsaber fight, I think we would have ended up with a lot of a stuntman CGI'd to look like Mark Hamill (and everyone would be instead complaining about how the CGI looked). Instead, we had Mark front and center in that scene, standing his ground and being a total badass.

Secondly, he DID show who was boss. He humiliated Kylo Ren by demonstrating how little he grasps of the Force, denied Kylo the opportunity to kill him, helped the Resistance escape, handed the First Order an embarrassing loss, got not one, but two fabulous digs in about Han's murder, and most importantly, left behind a story of heroism and the power of the Force that will inspire the next generation of heroes to keep fighting.

Luke was a badass.

 

[danoyse]

See, that's not what I got from TFA regarding Luke. I get that he blamed himself for Ben. But Han mentioning Luke going searching for the first Jedi temple implied Luke went there for a solution to Snoke and The First Order, not to hide from them. The solution possibly being a greater understanding and mastery of the Force.

But I saw the way Han was over losing Ben, and how he reacted when Rey and Finn mentioned Luke, and it was clear to me that things were bad. Even more so when Rey finally finds him at the end. He didn't look like he intended to be found.

 

[Orba]

See, that's not what I got from TFA regarding Luke. I get that he blamed himself for Ben. But Han mentioning Luke going searching for the first Jedi temple implied Luke went there for a solution to Snoke and The First Order, not to hide from them. The solution possibly being a greater understanding and mastery of the Force.

Han mentioned that people believed that Luke had gone in search of the first Jedi temple, in other words it was a reasoned guess that he had gone there. That indicates that when Luke left he had not told anyone that he was going. So after his life fell apart he up and disappeared without talking to his friends and family, not telling them that he was going, where he was going, without a way to contact him, and without taking R2 D2 with him. He had never even shared the map to Ahch-to, something that if he had would have made things far easier for everyone. And once he got there he stayed there for 5-6 without bothering to try to contact anyone.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

No, it worked better that he wasn't there.

First of all, if was there, "showing who is boss" with some kind of flashy lightsaber fight, I think we would have ended up with a lot of a stuntman CGI'd to look like Mark Hamill (and everyone would be instead complaining about how the CGI looked). Instead, we had Mark front and center in that scene, standing his ground and being a total badass.

Secondly, he DID show who was boss. He humiliated Kylo Ren by demonstrating how little he grasps of the Force, denied Kylo the opportunity to kill him, helped the Resistance escape, handed the First Order an embarrassing loss, got not one, but two fabulous digs in about Han's murder, and most importantly, left behind a story of heroism and the power of the Force that will inspire the next generation of heroes to keep fighting.

Luke was a badass.

Why do think if we had gotten a lightsaber fight it would have had to have been flashy? I would have been fine with something like what we got between Rey and Luke earlier in the movie, with Luke clearly showing he is the master by dodging and swiping away attacks like they were nothing, only this time both characters would have had a lightsaber.

Then once clearly beaten Kylo give the order to fire on Luke and it eventually overwhelms him and he dies, but the remnants of the Rebellion escape in the same way.

And as Luke goes down, he gives a sly smile to Kylo and says "see you around kid" leaving Kylo terrified and his position weakened.

Luke showing Kylo how little he grasps the force means nothing to anyone but Kylo, the rest of the First Order wouldn't bat an eyelid.

But I saw the way Han was over losing Ben, and how he reacted when Rey and Finn mentioned Luke, and it was clear to me that things were bad. Even more so when Rey finally finds him at the end. He didn't look like he intended to be found.

I agree with the part where things must be bad. But again, the mention of Luke searching for the first Jedi temple doesn't imply abandonment to me. It implies Luke feels he isn't enough alone to overcome the First Order, and was looking for other solutions.

I guess we will just have e to agree to disagree here.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Han mentioned that people believed that Luke had gone in search of the first Jedi temple, in other words it was a reasoned guess that he had gone there. That indicates that when Luke left he had not told anyone that he was going. So after his life fell apart he up and disappeared without talking to his friends and family, not telling them that he was going, where he was going, without a way to contact him, and without taking R2 D2 with him. He had never even shared the map to Ahch-to, something that if he had would have made things far easier for everyone. And once he got there he stayed there for 5-6 without bothering to try to contact anyone.

But in TFA R2 had the map to Ach-to with just one part missing, that missing part was with a Jedi worshipper. Again it doesn't imply Luke didn't want to be found, only that he had made it difficult to be found. That could have been so Snoke and Kylo couldn't kill off the Jedi for good like they wanted to.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly, of all the things in TFA, the map to Luke never made much sense to me and was just all kinds of full of logic holes. I accept it because it is a Star Wars movie, but much of the map's story line in TFA bothers me.

Luke made it hard to be found for a reason, and we were presented with 2 options: Training harder in the arts of the force or lost hope and needed to find it again. Option number 2 has more potential for drama and is more interesting (though maybe not as cool to fans), so they went that route. Ultimately I like this route.

 

[danoyse]

Why do think if we had gotten a lightsaber fight it would have had to have been flashy? I would have been fine with something like what we got between Rey and Luke earlier in the movie, with Luke clearly showing he is the master by dodging and swiping away attacks like they were nothing, only this time both characters would have had a lightsaber.

And it would have been just another lightsaber fight. What we got was better. He outsmarted him on every level.

"I would have been find with like what we got between Rey and Luke earlier in the movie...

Except we already had that scene with Rey and Luke. What do it again?

We got more than a fight. We got a view of the sheer power of the Force that no one had ever seen before. And he didn't even have to pick up a lightsaber.

Then once clearly beaten Kylo give the order to fire on Luke and it eventually overwhelms him and he dies, but the remnants of the Rebellion escape in the same way.

That's boring.

And as Luke goes down, he gives a sly smile to Kylo and says "see you around kid" leaving Kylo terrified and his position weakened.

Still boring.

Luke showing Kylo how little he grasps the force means nothing to anyone but Kylo, the rest of the First Order wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Except that it doesn't. The entire First Order saw their Supreme Leader get fooled by a Jedi - far from the last - by showing powers far greater than his. They were all about destroying Luke because they thought once he was gone the Jedi would go with him, except that Luke's act inspires a new generation of Jedi that's far more formidable to the First Order.

I agree with the part where things must be bad. But again, the mention of Luke searching for the first Jedi temple doesn't imply abandonment to me. It implies Luke feels he isn't enough alone to overcome the First Order, and was looking for other solutions.

I guess we will just have e to agree to disagree here.

He lost the nephew his family trusted him with. People died because of his failure. That has to weigh on him, you see it when Rey finds him at the end of the movie. That was solitude, not gearing up for Round 2.

 

[danoyse]

Honestly, of all the things in TFA, the map to Luke never made much sense to me and was just all kinds of full of logic holes. I accept it because it is a Star Wars movie, but much of the map's story line in TFA bothers me.

Luke made it hard to be found for a reason, and we were presented with 2 options: Training harder in the arts of the force or lost hope and needed to find it again. Option number 2 has more potential for drama and is more interesting (though maybe not as cool to fans), so they went that route. Ultimately I like this route.

I get that the Max Von Sydow character was there because Leia was asking for his help to try and find him, which also said to me that Luke was trying not to be found.

What was the deal with R2, though? He had the last missing piece. Did Luke know he had the last missing piece? Did R2 power down for all that time on purpose? How did he know to power back on?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I get that the Max Von Sydow character was there because Leia was asking for his help to try and find him, which also said to me that Luke was trying not to be found.

What was the deal with R2, though? He had the last missing piece. Did Luke know he had the last missing piece? Did R2 power down for all that time on purpose? How did he know to power back on?

I had a ton of questions. How did R2 know to power back on? If the First Order had R2's part of the map as well, how could they not just send people to explore those areas and find him (they were only missing a small section of the map)? Why did this map exist in the first place? Etc.

Ultimately, it is a Star Wars movie, so I just let it go, but for me, it wasn't the cleanest of plot ideas and seemed ill thought out. TLJ doesn't build on these answers, but I am glad it didn't. Would have just bogged itself down in exposition. Better to just move forward.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Yeah, what we got was far greater than any simple lighsaber duel could have delivered imo.

Luke played on Kylo's inferiority complex masterfully and brought out both his fear and doubt, which the First Order witnessed so it would have impacted on their morale while at the same time galvanising a seriously weakened resistance. I loved it. Imagine what the tale of Luke Skywalker taking them all on with (what they saw was) minimal effort without even getting a scratch would do to not only bolster Luke's legend but also to inspire...

 

[Sithborg]

What Luke did will affect the First Order. As their new Supreme Leader is likely to become even more unstable. Robbing Kylo Ren of the victory of killing Luke Skywalker is great, and ripe with story opportunities.

Vader got to kill his former Jedi master, Kylo Ren doesn't.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I had a ton of questions. How did R2 know to power back on? If the First Order had R2's part of the map as well, how could they not just send people to explore those areas and find him (they were only missing a small section of the map)? Why did this map exist in the first place? Etc.

Ultimately, it is a Star Wars movie, so I just let it go, but for me, it wasn't the cleanest of plot ideas and seemed ill thought out. TLJ doesn't build on these answers, but I am glad it didn't. Would have just bogged itself down in exposition. Better to just move forward.

For me it implied Luke had given R2 most of the map in case he needed to be found to rejoin the fight. The flashback of Luke touching R2 for was when he gave him the map, and dropped he missing piece off to MVS.

It implied to me he was ready to rejoin the fight if needed and he wasn't off disappearing, but trying to get a greater weapon to defeat Snoke and Ren.

 

[Brother Jack]

What was the deal with R2, though? He had the last missing piece. Did Luke know he had the last missing piece? Did R2 power down for all that time on purpose? How did he know to power back on?

I think the canon explanation for that was R2 had gotten the databank of every known Jedi temple from when he plugged into the Deathstar in ANH. It wasn't a missing piece so much as the entire map, and BB-8 happened to have the specific coordinates of where Luke had gone. As to why R2 powered back up in that moment... you got me. That was a pretty lame deus ex machina to be honest.

 

[random_havoc]

For me, how is it more interesting if Luke is just amazing at everything? Where is the conflict? On one level, I get it. We have lots of nostalgia for the OT, and we want to see Luke be amazing because to us, he is. But that doesn't mean it is what was best for the story, and the story comes before just offering fan service.

I think that's a cop out the same way it's a cop out when people say you can't write a good Superman story. Because in both, you can write a great story with a powerful character (even more so with Luke than Superman since his more powerful Jedi master powers aren't defined yet), it's been done many times. And also because nobody said Luke has to be amazing at everything, you just don't have to rob him of all the good qualities he had (again, even Hamill has repeatedly said in interviews he hated what Rian Johnson did with his character).
Saying this was "best for the story" is a copout just like when Snyder fans try to explain why Superman just "had" to snap Zod's neck.

 

[random_havoc]

I think the canon explanation for that was R2 had gotten the databank of every known Jedi temple from when he plugged into the Deathstar in ANH. It wasn't a missing piece so much as the entire map, and BB-8 happened to have the specific coordinates of where Luke had gone. As to why R2 powered back up in that moment... you got me. That was a pretty lame deus ex machina to be honest.

And none of that is told in either movie because it's just one more way in which they were badly written. Why'd R2 power back on? Never told? How'd BB8 get the coordinates to where Luke is? Never told. How'd R2 get the other part of the map? Never told. Who was Snoke? (one of the TWO BIG MYSTERIES IN EPISODE 7!!!) Never told.
Repeated and obvious bad writing that fans of the movies like to ignore