The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Batmannerism]

The prequel supposedly gave the fans what they wanted and showed the jedi's powers in their prime (super speed, spinning and dancing like a top, super jumps) and to be honest none of them were more creative or impressive as The Last Jedi's sleight of hand (basically a modern Clint Eastwood using the pan trick).


Of course any Jedi would've been killed by the barrage of torpedos because they are not gods. Yet we get to see two legendary display of power, one is an illusion the other is the real power to project illusions across a galaxy.

The prequels display of full jedi power was much less creative, artful and more juvenile but that's what many wanted from Luke this time around.

Fair comment dude ! I thought it made for a grand exit.

( I love spoilers but I regret knowing about that particular twist)

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I respect Mark Hamill's opinion on Luke.

He defined the character in many ways however there's a reason actors typically aren't writers and vice versa.

One specializes in strictly performance and the other specializes in storytelling cover to cover.

 

[The Riddler]

i get he was disillusioned with teaching the jedi methods, but i don't see how it's anything but out of character (or lazy, convenient writing) for luke to literally leave kylo to snoke (and arguably the universe for that matter). there's literally no inkling of hero in him...no consideration to confront snoke or to win back kylo. if anything, luke should have wanted to destroy snoke and end the jedi...effectively bringing balance to the universe by destroying the dark side and never again perpetuating the jedi ways. for him to be a hermit and ending the jedi...while letting snoke and kylo run rampant is the worst case scenario: a critical imbalance towards the dark side.

anyone want to address this? luke's actions simply don't make sense within the narrative unless we accept luke is an apathetic coward.

 

[titansupes]

It's like... Doc Brown, when they ****ed up and created that awful Alt-1985, said "I'm going to destroy this damn time machine, my whole life's work... But first we have to fix the mess we've caused".

Imagine if instead, he said "We really ****ed the world up. Better destroy the time machine right now and go hide in the corner."

Like... I'm cool with Luke evolving, and doing a movie featuring a heavily disillusioned Luke. I loved the TFA set-up and the shocking "The Jedi must end" line.... But have it make sense in the context of what we've seen.

Have Rey show up, wants him to come back with her to help the Resistance and train her. Luke refuses to do any of that until he figures out what's wrong with the Jedi way, believing he can't be effective until he sorts it out (he tells her the half-truth about what happened with him and Ben).

She agrees to help him locate and access the library. It takes two powerful Force wielders to access, so combined with her passion for learning it-- and her desire to belong somewhere-- and Luke's passion for passing on the Jedi knowledge and helping a lost soul, leads to him giving her a few begrudging lessons along the way... they bond. You'd combine Rey's existing engineering/scavenger skills and Luke's Jedi knowledge to do a mini-Indiana Jones style sequence of them accessing the Temple.

Luke finds the Jedi books... he reads something that horrifies him, which leads him to the "Jedi have to end" line. Then the rest plays out much as it did in the movie.

Like... USE the set-up.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

anyone want to address this? luke's actions simply don't make sense within the narrative unless we accept luke is an apathetic coward.

I said this recently...

The thing that never occurred to Luke was the fact that the force would need to recalibrate once he created the jedi order.

Let's be honest. Without any speed bumps the new jedi order might've maintained peace and prosperity throughout the galaxy for centuries.

But the force requires balance, not necessarily justice, peace and family.

If that means your loved ones betray you and your holy temple is burned to the ground, your extended family of students are massacred, and your beloved star pupil/nephew entrusted to you by your closest friends and family becomes a genocidal dicator due to your negligence then so be it.

Luke would be an idiot to try and "fix" the force when clearly there was nothing he could do without being completely sabatoged again and again by an uncaring force that recalibrates in the most cold hearted ways on any given sunday.

 

[<(o_o)>]

anyone want to address this? luke's actions simply don't make sense within the narrative unless we accept luke is an apathetic coward.

Luke was basically turned into Yoda after Revenge Of The Sith, Luke became afraid & just skipped town, not the best way to go but what they went with. They could have made a whole prequel movie about why didn't Luke do this or the other but they just didn't want to devote all that much time to Luke Skywalker. It would have just been Obi Wan & Darth Vader all over again.

 

[BatLobster]

It's like... Doc Brown, when they ****ed up and created that awful Alt-1985, said "I'm going to destroy this damn time machine, my whole life's work... But first we have to fix the mess we've caused".

Imagine if instead, he said "We really ****ed the world up. Better destroy the time machine right now and go hide in the corner."

Like... I'm cool with Luke evolving, and doing a movie featuring a heavily disillusioned Luke. I loved the TFA set-up and the shocking "The Jedi must end" line.... But have it make sense in the context of what we've seen.

Have Rey show up, wants him to come back with her to help the Resistance and train her. Luke refuses to do any of that until he figures out what's wrong with the Jedi way, believing he can't be effective until he sorts it out (he tells her the half-truth about what happened with him and Ben).

She agrees to help him locate and access the library. It takes two powerful Force wielders to access, so combined with her passion for learning it--
and her desire to belong somewhere-- and Luke's passion for passing on the Jedi knowledge and helping a lost soul, leads to him giving her a few begrudging lessons along the way... they bond.

Luke finds the Jedi books... he reads something that horrifies him, which leads him to the "Jedi have to end" line. Then the rest plays out much as it did in the movie.

Like... USE the set-up.

Is it ever confirmed that he didn't read the books though? I took the "page turners, they were not" joke as implying maybe Luke read some of the texts, but hadn't read them in their entirety. I don't think the idea is that he went to the island and never even looked at them. It's entirely possible he did. We also don't know at which point he decided to cut himself off from the Force.

“Time it is, for you to look past a pile of old books.”

I'm okay with the movies leaving some stuff vague and semi-unexplained. It's always been the case.

Side note, it's interesting to think that he could have come across the original Jedi chosen one prophecy in one of those books.

 

[titansupes]

Is it ever confirmed that he didn't read the books though? I took the "page turners, they were not" joke as implying maybe Luke read some of the texts, but never finished. I don't think the idea is that he went to the island and never even looked at them. It's entirely possible he did, and was having a hard time with them for whatever reason.

“Time it is, for you to look past a pile of old books.”

Yoda: Read them, did you?
Luke: *flustered* Well, I--

That at least heavily implies that he... flicked through a couple, at best? I just don't buy that, as much as I loved Yoda's page turner line.

The "Time it is... For you to look past a pile of old books" line, and the rest of the scene except the page turner line, would still be perfectly applicable in the version I outlined. Heck, maybe more so.

Side note, it's interesting to think that he could have come across the original Jedi chosen one prophecy in one of those books.

Yeah, I was hoping for that. As long as it related to the emotional relationship of Luke to the Jedi way, and not to some "Rey's a new secret Chosen One" thing.

Instead... Not much at all.

 

[BatLobster]

I mean, I guess it's somewhat open to interpretation.

That's the thing with Star Wars today. Back in the day, our imaginations could just run wild and fill in all these plot gaps. Today, we'll just get novels that do it. Somehow, they'll find a way to cover Luke's time on Ahch-To in canon and we'll probably know every little detail eventually.

As is, I think the movie did a nice job balancing Luke's sense of failure in a personal way and tying that into the Jedi as a whole. His lines about it the Jedi being vain struck me as something he may have gleaned from how he was interpreting those texts. I mean, what else would he be basing that off of?

My assumption all throughout the movie was he had seen stuff in those texts that either solidified his doubts about the Jedi or caused him doubt.

My thing is, I go into these films now knowing that nothing will be delved into with as much juicy detail as I would want. If I was judging these films solely based on how much they explored what I personally wanted to see explored, both TFA and TLJ would get an F.

 

[writer0327]

anyone want to address this? luke's actions simply don't make sense within the narrative unless we accept luke is an apathetic coward.

There's nothing heroic about what Luke did. Not only that, he was one gigantic failure as a Jedi teacher and master.

One can only imagine how much trouble he went through to seek out young Force-sensitive children, convincing their parents to entrust him with their training and changing their entire lives going forward. They build a training temple, Luke shepherds these young children for who knows how long, but senses the darkness in one of them. Is it Ben? Nah, can't be. That's my nephew, he's family. But he can't escape from what he sees in front of him. Luke knows his father's history, as well as his own. Hell, he damn near turned to the Dark Side himself.

But Luke saw all of that and thought he could prevent it or avoid it. But then it all happens....history repeats itself.

Before he was full of himself as the big bad Jedi Master, now he's jaded and disillusioned. Kids are dead, temple is gone...The Jedi have failed exactly in this same manner before: prized pupil turns to support a Dark Side villain, innocent students are slaughtered, temple burned to the ground, and the survivors disappear into hiding. It's the Jedi Way!

Time to blow the whole thing up and be done with it.

 

[TheVileOne]

What about Luke's third lesson for Rey? Was that scene cut or will we see it in Episode 9?

 

[BatLobster]

What about Luke's third lesson for Rey? Was that scene cut or will we see it in Episode 9?

I was meaning to mention that. Leaving the third lesson out seems like a nice little bit of setup for 9.

But oh yeah, Rian Johnson blew up the saga and left JJ nothing to work with.

(As far as I know it's not a deleted scene, but who knows. Rian said in an interview that there's about 30 minutes of deleted scenes on the Blu-ray)

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think people need to stop thinking of the force as some zen buddhist entity and realize it can be old testament God when it comes to balancing things out.

If that means killing your whole family and you witnessing a holocaust then so be it.

And to top it off, those things will be the result of your noblest intentions, hopes and dreams.

Of course Luke said, "f**k this".

He's not stupid and clearly his best intentions will blow up in his face if that what "the force" requires at any given moment.

 

[writer0327]

What about Luke's third lesson for Rey? Was that scene cut or will we see it in Episode 9?

Deleted scene is my guess.

 

[writer0327]

I think people need to stop thinking of the force as some zen buddhist entity and realize it can be old testament God when it comes to balancing things out.

If that means killing your whole family and you witnessing a holocaust then so be it.

And to top it off, those things will be the result of your noblest intentions, hopes and dreams.

Of course Luke said, "f**k this".

He's not stupid and clearly his best intentions will blow up in his face if that what "the force" requires at any given moment.

Exactly. The Force clearly interferes with the galaxy whenever it feels compelled to. There's no getting around it; it's been emphasized in the series several times. All these various individual people believe they are in control or they have it figured all out, and the Force says.... "Nope! Watch this!"

 

[jmc]

What bugs me the most is how I felt absolutely nothing for Luke's death at the end. A character like that with decades of being the face of the series dying should have had me blubbering like a baby, and yet I felt absolutely nothing when he faded away. Shame.

 

[titansupes]

What bugs me the most is how I felt absolutely nothing for Luke's death at the end. A character like that with decades of being the face of the series dying should have had me blubbering like a baby, and yet I felt absolutely nothing when he faded away. Shame.

I said this in another thread, but the fake-out/fade away of the projection scene didn't allow the proper emotional build for the real fade away scene.

 

[TheVileOne]

Deleted scene is my guess.

Maybe they filmed and deleted it, but the idea gets reappropriated into Episode 9?

 

[Aximili86]

It's not a flawless statement but Yoda did at least go away with a plan in mind.

So did Luke. Right or wrong, he had a plan. Live out his days in relative peace, die in a couple decades, and break the cycle of conflict.

Not a very good one, of course, considering what Snoke & Kylo were up to out there in the real world. But hell, Yoda' & Obi's "rely on the children of the wife-choking-child-murderer to bring him back from the brink and hopefully not turn all wife-choking-child-murderer themselves" seems...risky, even insane, too.

Keep in mind, Yoda had already basically fought Sidious to a tie in EpIII, and Obi had bested Anakin. Guess they're little sissymen cowards for not joining up and infiltrating Coruscant or whatever Star Destroyer Palps is on at the time for Round 2. Seems, on paper, they'd have a decent chance of prevailing. One guy fought to a draw, the other had a victory.

But yeah, screw those little wussymen. What kind of Jedi are they anyway, wasting time in a swamp and a desert for 20 years? A disgrace to their order.

 

[markjoedelonge]

What bugs me the most is how I felt absolutely nothing for Luke's death at the end. A character like that with decades of being the face of the series dying should have had me blubbering like a baby, and yet I felt absolutely nothing when he faded away. Shame.

That's because they faked his death with the hologram crap, and then they really killed him. Even if you were invested with this version of Luke, it's a really stupid decision. Why pretend to kill him only to really kill him? Ugh.

EDIT: I see titansupes beat me to it haha.

 

[writer0327]

I said this in another thread, but the fake-out/fade away of the projection scene didn't allow the proper emotional build for the real fade away scene.

In both of the crowds I watched the film, there was a cheer when it was revealed that Luke was Force-projecting from the island...and almost an instant gasp of shock when he disappeared.

I thought it was a poignant end considering how Luke's final years had gone.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What bugs me the most is how I felt absolutely nothing for Luke's death at the end. A character like that with decades of being the face of the series dying should have had me blubbering like a baby, and yet I felt absolutely nothing when he faded away. Shame.

I didn't cry mostly because I knew he finally found redemption and peace.

And he'll always be part of the force.

I actually apply this outlook to real life to an extent.

The part that made me ugly cry is when Kylo saves Rey.

Just the idea of that person you care about finally pulling a 180 and becoming the hero you always hoped...it impacted me for personal family reasons but I would understand if most people just like the action, lol.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That's because they faked his death with the hologram crap, and then they really killed him. Even if you were invested with this version of Luke, it's a really stupid decision. Why pretend to kill him only to really kill him? Ugh.

EDIT: I see titansupes beat me to it haha.

I knew he wasn't going to die during the barrage of torpedoes. It was clear they were setting up a legendary display of Jedi power.

The mental projection aspect was mostly a shocking twist.

After that I could see Luke dying around the corner but how did you guys not get emotional during the binary sunset with William's score and Luke in deep reflection???

 

[writer0327]

Maybe they filmed and deleted it, but the idea gets reappropriated into Episode 9?

Possibly, perhaps as a flashback. I guess it depends on what they are planning to do with Rey and her Jedi training.

 

[titansupes]

In both of the crowds I watched the film, there was a cheer when it was revealed that Luke was Force-projecting from the island...and almost an instant gasp of shock when he disappeared.

I thought it was a poignant end considering how Luke's final years had gone.

It was just a weird build-up that pulled too many reversals, for me.

Projection Luke* non-fighting Kylo ramped up to "If you strike me down--". Invoking Obi-Wan's words like that leads everyone to thinking "Luke's about to die".

The 'saber passes through Projection Luke and we get the reveal of Real Luke on the island. Cheers go up because it all says "Tricked you, Luke's going to live, everyone!" Projection Luke fades away with a "See you around, kid". Kylo's furious because he was tricked and the Last Jedi's going to live.

...And thirty seconds later... Real Luke fades away to actual death.

The fake-outs and the way it was visualised just didn't let it land for me. I like the projection scene and LOVE the death scene, but they didn't belong back-to-back.

*Also, I thought it was pretty obvious from the outset he was a Force projection, given he showed up out of nowhere in the Crait base, his hair was shorter and both his hair and beard died brown. Then he takes all that fire from the Walkers without a even speck of dust landing on him. And he pulls out the blue (destroyed) lightsaber. Why, I don't know.

The only bit of doubt I had about it was... "Well, this movie's made a lot of bad decisions already... Maybe he really did take the time to use Just For Men."