Man of Steel vs Superman: The Movie

[Loki882]

I didn't say the romance in STM was forced, in fact I didn't bring up the romance at all (except to criticize Donner's message that Superman can never truly have a proper romance with Lois, that's really depressing and stupid). I simply said that while I liked Kidder, I preferred Adams. Also, there was no romance in MOS, it was a friendship that had the beginnings of a potential romance. They're was definitely an attraction, but the kiss at the end was an emotional release after surviving a huge disaster (spur of the moment). I found STM Perry to be cliché and just the fact that Fishburne was willing to die just to make sure an intern wasn't alone made me care about him. Also, how were the characters in MOS caricatures, I honestly don't understand that criticism at all. STM Lex, Otis, Miss Tessmacher, and Perry were all caricatures. General Zod alone had more complexity than anyone in STM, except Christopher Reeve and MAYBE Margot Kidder, heck even Col. Hardy had more character development than most of the cast in STM.

 

[writer0327]

I didn't say the romance in STM was forced, in fact I didn't bring up the romance at all (except to criticize Donner's message that Superman can never truly have a proper romance with Lois, that's really depressing and stupid). I simply said that while I liked Kidder, I preferred Adams. Also, there was no romance in MOS, it was a friendship that had the beginnings of a potential romance. They're was definitely an attraction, but the kiss at the end was an emotional release after surviving a huge disaster (spur of the moment). I found STM Perry to be cliché and just the fact that Fishburne was willing to die just to make sure an intern wasn't alone made me care about him. Also, how were the characters in MOS caricatures, I honestly don't understand that criticism at all. STM Lex, Otis, Miss Tessmacher, and Perry were all caricatures. General Zod alone had more complexity than anyone in STM, except Christopher Reeve and MAYBE Margot Kidder, heck even Col. Hardy had more character development than most of the cast in STM.

Zod's character was well drawn, but his was about the only one.

By caricature I meant that they were all versions of players we've known from watching and reading Superman stories in the past. They didn't have character in and of themselves. There was nothing about Perry White that made him endearing and lovable or even likable. I was supposed to like him, not because of any character trait that was brought out in the film, I was supposed to like him because he's Perry White, editor of the Daily Planet, remember him??? So at the end of the film, he's in peril, and we're supposed to be worried or concerned. He could have been "citizen of Metropolis #4" trying to protect another random citizen because as far as I'm concerned, there was nothing about the Jenny Olsen character or his that gave me reason to care about them caring about each other.

The character building was weak, that's my only point. I didn't get any indication throughout the film that Clark even liked Lois, unless I was supposed to read something in an offhand look or something. And if I am to believe they kissed purely from a release or purely from attraction, then that shows how poorly the relationship was built. At least in STM there was a relationship.

 

[blumatic]

So an ok story told well, is better than a good story told in an ok fashion?

Legit question.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So an ok story told well, is better than a good story told in an ok fashion?

Legit question.

Execution is everything.

 

[Ipodman]

Superman the movie for sure... but MOS is good enough...

 

[blumatic]

Execution is everything.

Then what happened to Superman Returns?

Legit question. Because I think it's a well made film. But not a good one.

Maybe the story was bad?

 

[Ipodman]

So an ok story told well, is better than a good story told in an ok fashion?

Legit question.

I would say so... if your good story is told in a not-so-good fashion, it wouldnt appear as a good story anyway. But with good story telling, an ok story can be made to look better than it really is

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Then what happened to Superman Returns?

Legit question. Because I think it's a well made film. But not a good one.

Maybe the story was bad?

I disagree.

While the production and SFX values were high the storytelling was hurt by bad pacing, unfocused character/story arcs, poorly chosen tone, a hack job screenplay, etc.

So both the story and execution were lacking despite the money spent on production and SFX.

 

[blumatic]

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Then what happened to Superman Returns?

Legit question. Because I think it's a well made film. But not a good one.

Maybe the story was bad?

I agree. As far as cinematics go, Superman Returns was a very well made film. The plot was tired and hackneyed. Spacey as a corrupt businessman would have been killer, but we got a Hackman redux. In relation to Superman The Movie it was terrible though and MOS blows it out of the water like an atom bomb!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

i would say so... If your good story is told in a not-so-good fashion, it wouldnt appear as a good story anyway. But with good story telling, an ok story can be made to look better than it really is

this!!!

 

[Loki882]

SR was an inferior rehash of STM. The story wasn't strong enough for a two and a half hour film, so the movie was filled with filler. I was also ugly too look at (in my opinion). It was too dark and dreary visually, the costume was terrible, and the final confrontation was lame. It had a poor story idea from the beginning.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

At least STM and MOS fans can both agree that SR sucks.

 

[Loki882]

The kiss doesn't mean the relationship was poorly built because it was a spur of the moment thing after they both nearly died. If they hadn't gone through that hell, they probably wouldn't have kissed. I liked Perry because of his ACTIONS, screentime was irrelevant to me (this wasn't the movie to give the DP a lot of screentime anyway). The characters in STM were also caricatures since we've seen all of them in the comics before, it works both ways.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

The kiss doesn't mean the relationship was poorly built because it was a spur of the moment thing after they both nearly died. If they hadn't gone through that hell, they probably wouldn't have kissed. I liked Perry because of his ACTIONS, screentime was irrelevant to me (this wasn't the movie to give the DP a lot of screentime anyway). The characters in STM were also caricatures since we've seen all of them in the comics before, it works both ways.

Sure, Lois and Clark lives their share of exciting and deadly adventures. How that evolved into love is not really clear.

I liked Perry too, but because Fishburne's charismatic. I'm not sure what all of those actions of his were.

 

[Migu-EL]

Zod's character was well drawn, but his was about the only one.

By caricature I meant that they were all versions of players we've known from watching and reading Superman stories in the past. They didn't have character in and of themselves. There was nothing about Perry White that made him endearing and lovable or even likable. I was supposed to like him, not because of any character trait that was brought out in the film, I was supposed to like him because he's Perry White, editor of the Daily Planet, remember him??? So at the end of the film, he's in peril, and we're supposed to be worried or concerned. He could have been "citizen of Metropolis #4" trying to protect another random citizen because as far as I'm concerned, there was nothing about the Jenny Olsen character or his that gave me reason to care about them caring about each other.

The character building was weak, that's my only point. I didn't get any indication throughout the film that Clark even liked Lois, unless I was supposed to read something in an offhand look or something. And if I am to believe they kissed purely from a release or purely from attraction, then that shows how poorly the relationship was built. At least in STM there was a relationship.

I have to disagree. Perry White shows character right from the start in MOS. The fact that he agreed with the decision that Lois made to not run her story about Clark because of the possibility of a chaotic reaction by the public to a person with extraordinary abilities, shows that he is a man of high morals (being that he is in the business to sell newspapers that says a lot). Also, as another poster mentioned, the fact that he was willing to risk his life to make sure that his intern doesn't die alone, speaks volumes of the type of person he is and makes me at least actually care about his character. Could they have fleshed out his character? Sure, but he is only a secondary character and I feel that they built the character enough for the story.

As far as the kiss between Lois, I think it was believable. I mean, he had already saved her life twice before that. So I could see how Lois would have a desire to want to kiss him and feel a sense of attraction to Clark. As for Clark, Lois is the first person other than his parents to know about his abilities. So he feels a sense of trust with her that I'm sure he had never felt with anyone else. So I don't find the fact that they kissed after both of them were on the brink of death (or at least the phantom zone).

 

[Migu-EL]

Sure, Lois and Clark lives their share of exciting and deadly adventures. How that evolved into love is not really clear.

I liked Perry too, but because Fishburne's charismatic. I'm not sure what all of those actions of his were.

When was it mentioned that they loved each other or implied in the film? They shared a kiss, nothing more. People kiss all the time, it hardly means that the "love" each other.. lol

 

[Senator Pleasury]

When was it mentioned that they loved each other or implied in the film? They shared a kiss, nothing more. People kiss all the time, it hardly means that the "love" each other.. lol

Yeah, I wish girls like Lois kissed men all the time just because. That doesn't happen though.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I still think saying MOS is better than Superman is like saying Lady Gaga is better than Madonna.
But I will say I liked Perry in MOS. I liked that he understood the human masses enough to know that telling the an alien was amongst them would cause them to flip out. I also loved how he worked so hard to protect Jenny. He of course can't hold a candle to the best Perry White from Lois & Clark, but he was better than the one from Superman.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I love Superman the movie, and I love Man of Steel more
Superman the movie is mostly classic silver age Superman
Man of Steel is a solid step in adapting Superman's evolution from golden age (before the ability to fly), to silver age, with a good mix of New Earth Superman, which I honestly like more, it did a nice job bridging between different eras

The one thing I don't like about Man of Steel is [blackout]The ending with Clark in the Daily Planet, feels awkward right now[/blackout]
Superman the movie (the 2:30 hours version) has some silliness in the last half hour, with the speed he moved in to go back in time he could have done what is shown in HISHE Superman

 

[Loki882]

I wouldn't know since I don't follow either of the queens of weird. There was never any mention of love in the movie, I think that will play a bigger role in the sequel. For now, their two friends who trust each other completely and who also played tonsil hockey once in the heat of the moment. I agree with migu-El about Perry's character.

 

[Loki882]

As for the final scene, we haven't really seen Cavill's version of Daily Planet Clark, so I can't really judge. Lois knows who he is, and Goyer has said that Perry probably knows (which I agree with). I like the idea that the DP staff secretly know the Clark is Superman, but choose to turn a blind eye because they like and respect them (and he saved their lives).

 

[Migu-EL]

Yeah, I wish girls like Lois kissed men all the time just because. That doesn't happen though.

I'm pretty sure if every man could save a woman more than once, using heat vision and the ability of flight, then sporadic kisses from woman would be a regular thing.. LMAO. Either way, it was never implied that they were in love.

 

[Loki882]

Especially if the world almost ended, and both played a large role in preventing that.

 

[Migu-EL]

Exactly.