Comics Marc Guggenheim's latest explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day

[kguillou]

I know but that flashback was like 2-3 pages long. I know i sound harsh, but i was just really really looking forward to seeing Spidey and DD pair up again, and instead we got a Spidey/Vince team up. The last time i remember Spidey and DD teaming up was during Bendis' daredevil run where spidey briefly appeared for a little bit.

 

[carnageehw]

And if you don't like their "giant climax"...they'll label you politically!!

New fun times at Marvel!

If you don't like the "giant climax", you must be a virgin.

 

[Themanofbat]

I know but that flashback was like 2-3 pages long. I know i sound harsh, but i was just really really looking forward to seeing Spidey and DD pair up again, and instead we got a Spidey/Vince team up. The last time i remember Spidey and DD teaming up was during Bendis' daredevil run where spidey briefly appeared for a little bit.

So that flashback was better than the Bendis issues...

 

[moraldeficiency]

Matt Murdock recently teamed up with the penial system to get eddie brock out of jail and **** Spider-Man over. That was a good team up.

 

[shinlyle]

So that flashback was better than the Bendis issues...

You're crazy! Those Bendis DD issues were golden!! Of course, the best lines in one of the issues never happened:
"I don't need this....I have a hot wife at home!"

Now, it probably read:
"I don't need this....I havea hot significant other at home who I am in a civil union with!"

 

[shinlyle]

If you don't like the "giant climax", you must be a virgin.

HA! I was waiting for someone to make that joke!t:

 

[Styleshift]

Marvel is made up with quite the tricksters these days....with constantly FALSELY advertising their issues.

THE STORY:
Her name is . She's Spider-Man's newest and most terrifying nemesis -- and she just discovered his secret identity. With an army of villains at her command, even with the help of Daredevil, can Spidey protect his secret identity from his new foe? Find out as Marc Guggenheim and Phil Jimenez give you the fight of Spidey’s life against the Brand New !

Now of course you can say that DD did "help" him by giving him his costume to use....but look how they led off ("with an army of villains at her command.")

That and the bad ass cover that Phil Jimenez drew for 567 made things very misleading and dissapointing when I was looking through the catalog before it came out.

It's like Marvel is saying LOOK please love our new character!
and Vin was pretty cool before that whole thing...but it was pretty ridicoulous for her to attack peter and let him get away (obviously in a super human way) while seeing his face through a sniper lense. you can say she didnt see Vin in the dark...but she saw his face later during that arc.

 

[kguillou]

THANK you Styleshift. thats all i'm saying, marvel tricked us, when i saw the cover for 567, i got soo amped, i thought we were gonna see DD and spidey team up. Not only did they not team up but i had to endure 2 issues of spidey swinging around in a goofy lookin DD costume.

 

[farmernudie]

You're crazy! Those Bendis DD issues were golden!! Of course, the best lines in one of the issues never happened:
"I don't need this....I have a hot wife at home!"

Now, it probably read:
"I don't need this....I havea hot significant other at home who I am in a civil union with!"

Or he wouldn't even have to go home just for a girlfriend who may or may not be there.

Unless it was a very serious "marriage-like" boyfriend girlfriend (relationship)...and if it was, then why go to a devil-magic-reboot to change terms of the wording??

Idoitic, if you ask me. But yeh, lots of back issues i've read, just don't work anymore, no matter how much marvel trys to wink at us, or trys to convince us overly hard, to say it is all the same.

 

[Styleshift]

THANK you Styleshift. thats all i'm saying, marvel tricked us, when i saw the cover for 567, i got soo amped, i thought we were gonna see DD and spidey team up. Not only did they not team up but i had to endure 2 issues of spidey swinging around in a goofy lookin DD costume.

hah and lets not forget the "heartwarming events of One more day."

some people say they had a problem with the cover to the first issue. since they made a character that never had any ramifactions to the story appear on the cover like he was going to mess Spidey up. but we've seen that before...so it didnt bother me.

what bother me though is how Spidey and DD seemed more....Ultimate in the story. I remember when the two used to throw jokes at eachother and be close friends...what happened? (I don't mean all campy like batman and robin either. )

Or he wouldn't even have to go home just for a girlfriend who may or may not be there.

Unless it was a very serious "marriage-like" boyfriend girlfriend (relationship)...and if it was, then why go to a devil-magic-reboot to change terms of the wording??

Idoitic, if you ask me. But yeh, lots of back issues i've read, just don't work anymore, no matter how much marvel trys to wink at us, or trys to convince us overly hard, to say it is all the same.

I just bought "The best of Spider-man" vol. 3 today.
The marriage needs to exist for most of the book.
funny how they refer to it as the best of Spider-man while Peter is married.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

shouldn't marvel re-release stories of the "Fixed" universe through a series of Essentials like books?
Like having the wedding not happen, harry moving to europe while on rehab, fixing the clone saga mess where MJ liked to shove a pillow under her shirt to pretend that she was pregnant, Spidey's involvement during civil war, etc... revealing the "true" remasking agent and stuff... maybe "haters" will shut up... and if they still don't like it... they're bootleggers, sexist and ageist!! because they're supporting a younger female knockoff of the one true satanic Spider-Man...

 

[Venom 1988]

shouldn't marvel re-release stories of the "Fixed" universe through a series of Essentials like books?
Like having the wedding not happen, harry moving to europe while on rehab, fixing the clone saga mess where MJ liked to shove a pillow under her shirt to pretend that she was pregnant, Spidey's involvement during civil war, etc... revealing the "true" remasking agent and stuff... maybe "haters" will shut up... and if they still don't like it... they're bootleggers, sexist and ageist!! because they're supporting a younger female knockoff of the one true satanic Spider-Man...

Joking or not, that would be stupid. Just because some stuff is non-canon now, doesn't mean they should go back and rewrite parts of old issues and erase all existance of it in material form (i.e. Trades, back issues, etc...). If that was the case DC would be recalling 40+ years of info before the Crises in the 80s.

Christ some of you people act like your new to how retcons work. There gonna release a new canon version of what happened on the wedding day sure, but they wont re-release an edited version of the original wedding story. Love it or hate it, I serverly doubt there gonna return Spidey to his Pre-OMD self.

PS- Nothing changed with Civil War

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

stupid IS the marvel way regarding Spidey... besides if so little changed like they say... this new Spidey history book could be released without a hitch...

i mentioned civil war because it was the last big assed event that spidey was involved before One Moronic Deal... (BiB is a side-effect of civil war and an excuse to have black suit spidey around the time of Tobey-Man 3)

 

[moraldeficiency]

Joking or not, that would be stupid. Just because some stuff is non-canon now, doesn't mean they should go back and rewrite parts of old issues and erase all existance of it in material form (i.e. Trades, back issues, etc...). If that was the case DC would be recalling 40+ years of info before the Crises in the 80s.

Christ some of you people act like your new to how retcons work. There gonna release a new canon version of what happened on the wedding day sure, but they wont re-release an edited version of the original wedding story. Love it or hate it, I serverly doubt there gonna return Spidey to his Pre-OMD self.

PS- Nothing changed with Civil War

I remember when they ben reilly being the real Spider-Man was something marvel wasn't going to change either.

Lot's changed with civil war, btw. First off the memories of the entire planet were wiped clean, all news footage, internet chatter, written articles and computer files were deleted, tony stark lost all his peter parker info and everyone was made stupid enough that no one would question why all of a sudden they can't remember who spider-man unmasked to become. Now either the event's happened the same way and the above all happened or civil war was retconed. Either way, things changed.

 

[shinlyle]

I remember when they ben reilly being the real Spider-Man was something marvel wasn't going to change either.

Lot's changed with civil war, btw. First off the memories of the entire planet were wiped clean, all news footage, internet chatter, written articles and computer files were deleted, tony stark lost all his peter parker info and everyone was made stupid enough that no one would question why all of a sudden they can't remember who spider-man unmasked to become. Now either the event's happened the same way and the above all happened or civil war was retconed. Either way, things changed.

Marvel says alot of things were permanent that weren't.

How many mutants ACTUALLY lost their powers after House of M?
How long did it take Spidey to be remasked?
How long did Ben Reilly stay the one true Spider-Man?
How long did Wolverine go without his nose?
Dead is dead....except for Colossus...and Thor....and Steve Rogers will be back before the movie come out...

This current change to Spidey is no more permanent than anything else in comics. Also, if Peter And MJ get married in the movies, expect them to magically get remarried/undo the deal with Mephisto in the comics.

 

[Galactus]

Marvel says alot of things were permanent that weren't.

How many mutants ACTUALLY lost their powers after House of M?
How long did it take Spidey to be remasked?
How long did Ben Reilly stay the one true Spider-Man?
How long did Wolverine go without his nose?
Dead is dead....except for Colossus...and Thor....and Steve Rogers will be back before the movie come out...

This current change to Spidey is no more permanent than anything else in comics. Also, if Peter And MJ get married in the movies, expect them to magically get remarried/undo the deal with Mephisto in the comics.

The funny thing with Spider-Man is that he has been through countless "life changing" events, and yet post-OMD it is like almost nothing has changed at all since the 70's...

 

[Venom 1988]

Lot's changed with civil war, btw. First off the memories of the entire planet were wiped clean, all news footage, internet chatter, written articles and computer files were deleted, tony stark lost all his peter parker info and everyone was made stupid enough that no one would question why all of a sudden they can't remember who spider-man unmasked to become. Now either the event's happened the same way and the above all happened or civil war was retconed. Either way, things changed.

Yea all that you mentioned happened after Civil War though, so my statement still stands. Nothing changed with Civil War

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yea all that you mentioned happened after Civil War though, so my statement still stands. Nothing changed with Civil War

I guess it depends if they're going with the nothing changed theory or if slott's changing things like he's currently doing. I know the company line is one thing, but they are changing past events beyond the marriage like the new harry arc coming out, the changes in the symbiote, and the fact that peter thinks something else happened other than making a deal with the devil, so who's to say civil war stayed the same? If it did JJJ, wolverine, tony stark, doc strange, every reporter on the planet, Norman Osborn, venom, daredevil, reed richards (actually the whole FF), Black Cat, Puma and of course Peter Parker are by far the absolutely stupidest people on the planet for not even questioning what happened. I mean think if the everything happened deal went through just like it said, Peter Parker remembers Spider-Man unmasking but can't remember his own face or why no one's brought it up and doesn't think that's worth thinking about or looking into in the least? Of course if my ass had superpowers and was getting schooled by fun runners while not quite showing the foresight in web management that he did at 16 maybe I'd be too busy being a poser to notice.

 

[kguillou]

Well, here's what i think marvel is getting at and i know this sounds crazy but from the sound of things, i think everybody in the MU is at least aware of the fact that their minds were erased and they once knew spidey's identity. Something happened that erased everybody's memory of spidey's identity and the people and the heroes are aware that something happened, but they probably dont know what. In NWTD pt 2, when Spidey's talking to Osborn, he says " Things are different Osborn, this time you dont know who I am." The way he said it made it sound like Osborn is aware that he knew Spidey's i.d. at one point, but his mind was erased, but he is aware of all that. So it's not like no one remembers ever knowing spidey's i.d., i think everyone knows that their minds were tampered with, or something. Like i said it sounds crazy but i think this is what marvel's been trying to tell us. And if thats the case then all continuity is pretty much in tact. But thats only for the umasking, the marriage change is a different story.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Though that does beg the question if everyone knows their minds were tampered with (right before an alien invasion involving massive deception I should mention) why is everyone ok with that and not bothering to figure out more? Reed Richards, Doc Strange and Tony Stark at the least I would imagine would want to know more especially since Tony and Reed's Peter Parker/Spider-Man files have disappeared, and Strange's long history with Spider-Man not to mention Mephisto. If it is a nothing different happened time, then those guys are idiots.

 

[Venom 1988]

I guess it depends if they're going with the nothing changed theory or if slott's changing things like he's currently doing. I know the company line is one thing, but they are changing past events beyond the marriage like the new harry arc coming out, the changes in the symbiote, and the fact that peter thinks something else happened other than making a deal with the devil, so who's to say civil war stayed the same? If it did JJJ, wolverine, tony stark, doc strange, every reporter on the planet, Norman Osborn, venom, daredevil, reed richards (actually the whole FF), Black Cat, Puma and of course Peter Parker are by far the absolutely stupidest people on the planet for not even questioning what happened. I mean think if the everything happened deal went through just like it said, Peter Parker remembers Spider-Man unmasking but can't remember his own face or why no one's brought it up and doesn't think that's worth thinking about or looking into in the least? Of course if my ass had superpowers and was getting schooled by fun runners while not quite showing the foresight in web management that he did at 16 maybe I'd be too busy being a poser to notice.

Well it goes with the whole gap of time between the deal with Mephisto and BND swing shift that they keep talking about. During that time Peter did something with someone else to make everyone forget on Earth who he was. Maybe people did question it, which is probably why he took a 100 day break on being Spidey, so he could keep a low profile.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Well it goes with the whole gap of time between the deal with Mephisto and BND swing shift that they keep talking about. During that time Peter did something with someone else to make everyone forget on Earth who he was. Maybe people did question it, which is probably why he took a 100 day break on being Spidey, so he could keep a low profile.

So people questioned it but no one did anything? Even now norman is smart enough to figure the camera thing but taking the next logical step along with the forementioned questioning didn't quite occur to him?

Plus if Peter Parker is keeping a low profile and spider-man seemingly disappears wouldn't that encourage that logical leap?

 

[farmernudie]

So people questioned it for 100 days and now that the 100 day deadline is over, no one cares that their minds have lots of loop holes and memory loss and that they can't think things thru to an entire or logical/proper conclusion?!!

 

[Venom 1988]

So people questioned it for 100 days and now that the 100 day deadline is over, no one cares that their minds have lots of loop holes and memory loss and that they can't think things thru to an entire or logical/proper conclusion?!!

Its called a theory and a pretty bland one at that. I'm just spitballing ideas here alright

 

[farmernudie]

Peace.

Just annoyed that this reboot is totally illogical. That's all.