Marlon Wayans still getting paid for NOT appearing in Batman Returns

[BatmanForNever]

I think it's funny that some people on here assume someone is racist if they don't want a black person to play a white character. I would get just as upset if they cast a white actor to play a black man.

We grow up with these characters and we are always preaching about staying true to the source material. I don't get how me not wanting a black man or any kind of man play a white man means I'm racist or anyone else on here is. I do think it's humorous as to how juvenile the other side looks. Slinging the mud.

 

[Ibn]

I think it's funny that some people on here assume someone is racist if they don't want a black person to play a white character. I would get just as upset if they cast a white actor to play a black man.

We grow up with these characters and we are always preaching about staying true to the source material. I don't get how me not wanting a black man or any kind of man play a white man means I'm racist or anyone else on here is. I do think it's humorous as to how juvenile the other side looks. Slinging the mud.

Your not racist, but it is kinda silly and I can understand why, to some people, it might be interpreted as such. Like one poster said, there are so few prominent black comic book characters that getting mad at a race change comes off as a bit unruly and not really justifiable. I mean if we're talking about growing up on the character, not the color of the mans skin, than the tone of his skin shouldn't matter. I mean if they got everything else about him right accept he was a black man, would you still be angry? I hope not. Like you said, you grew up on the character, not the color of the mans skin. Especially with this character in particular (Dent). There is absolutely NOTHING in his history that dictates that he simply must be a white man. I can see if you were mad at a Bruce Wayne race change, because seriously, how many black billionares do you know? That's not realistic. But Harvey? And Robin even? It doesn't make much sense to be at all upset when they're race has nothing to do with the makeup of their character. I was mad at the Ra's al Ghul race change. Mad as hell. Because who he was racially was a crucial part of his history. But with characters like Two-Face, and Catwoman and even the f-in Riddler (all of whom I've been crucified for defending) there's no reason to be upset with a race change. Now if everwhere you look, black actors were being cast, then ok, let's even it out. But the fact that that's not even happened in reverse yet is all the more reason to support the idea of a black or hispanic or asian casting IMO. But all of this political banter has taken away from the real gold (and, ironically, perhaps the most racist part) of the thread.


"I get why they picked Chris O' Donnell, because it would be messed up to have Batman and you've got Robin, and his bulge is somewhat bigger than Batman's," he said. "Batman would have a serious problem with that."

 

[Fresh Prince]

Dude its a movie, so their can be black billionaires.

 

[Ibn]

Dude its a movie, so their can be black billionaires.

Their are like 3 black billionaires in the world right now. No way in hell Batman is the spawn of two black billionaire entrepreneurs who came to prominence pre-1970. As much as I hate this realism b.s. in Christopher Nolan's movies, some things really do have to be a certain way. There were no black billionaires before Bruce Wayne was born, present day Bruce or other. That would be wierd and would undermine the struggle for Civil Rights completely.

 

[MrQuinn]

"I get why they picked Chris O' Donnell, because it would be messed up to have Batman and you've got Robin, and his bulge is somewhat bigger than Batman's," he said. "Batman would have a serious problem with that."

What makes this even more hilarious, is that even though it was O'Donnell, his codpiece (or bulge...) was actually larger than Batman's! lmao Thanks for the laugh, Schumacher

 

[Fresh Prince]

Their are like 3 black billionaires in the world right now. No way in hell Batman is the spawn of two black billionaire entrepreneurs who came to prominence pre-1970. As much as I hate this realism b.s. in Christopher Nolan's movies, some things really do have to be a certain way. There were no black billionaires before Bruce Wayne was born, present day Bruce or other. That would be wierd and would undermine the struggle for Civil Rights completely.

Who even said the family riches had to go back that far. I know in the comics it did, but seriously this is a movie, Nolan does not even have to add that, no one would even care anyways.

 

[Tex]

wow prince messing up the H2 thread now Batman. what will you start a fight in next?

 

[Darth Rockwell]

This has nothing to do with race. Harvey Dent is a white male, Robin is a white male don't cast black actors to play white people. Kingpin a white guy, who plays him Michael Clark...enough said, it's stupid.

Watch me as I ignore El Payaso and his troll comments, as they all are.

Wow your level of being a rascist astounds me. It doesn't matter race but the ability to bring the character to life. I rather have them get an actor who can play the part then an actor who just looks the part.

 

[DA Dent]

"I still get residual checks."

Ha, that’s ridiculous.

 

[El Payaso]

Wow your level of being a rascist astounds me. It doesn't matter race but the ability to bring the character to life. I rather have them get an actor who can play the part then an actor who just looks the part.

That's like saying someone is sexist because he wants Batman to be portrayed by a man not a very talented actor woman.

 

[willemjoker]

That's like saying someone is sexist because he wants Batman to be portrayed by a man not a very talented actor woman.

Um, no, it's really not. Gender is a million times more essential to the character than race. Catwoman being a man changes her character significantly. Catwoman being black doesn't. It's the same with the vast majority of characters - from Harvey Dent to Jim Gordon. Actually, those two being black could add some subtext if you wanted. But I see nothing in The Dark Knight that would be different about Jim Gordon's character if he'd been played by Joe Morton instead of Gary Oldman.
On the other hand, Batman being black would change his character significantly, because Bruce Wayne is meant to be the epitome of the trust-fund country club billionaire (in the eyes of the public) and the sire of a millionaire industrialist. Not too many black millionaire industrialists 30 years ago. That said, it's still a far less significant change than making him Batwoman.

 

[El Payaso]

Um, no, it's really not. Gender is a million times more essential to the character than race. Catwoman being a man changes her character significantly. Catwoman being black doesn't. It's the same with the vast majority of characters - from Harvey Dent to Jim Gordon. Actually, those two being black could add some subtext if you wanted. But I see nothing in The Dark Knight that would be different about Jim Gordon's character if he'd been played by Joe Morton instead of Gary Oldman.
On the other hand, Batman being black would change his character significantly, because Bruce Wayne is meant to be the epitome of the trust-fund country club billionaire (in the eyes of the public) and the sire of a millionaire industrialist. Not too many black millionaire industrialists 30 years ago. That said, it's still a far less significant change than making him Batwoman.

Well, you missed the point so I'll get this back on track.

As you just said, BOTH things change essential aspects of certain characters. You said that IYO one is one million times more essential than the other but still admited both are. For other people both are essential.

I'm sure BatmanForNever also thinks no white man should portray Shaft.

My point is not that they're equally essential, but that thinking you're changing something fundamental of a certain character by changing things on them like sex or race is not being "racist" or "sexist."

It's not even that I agree with him. But he's not racist by thinking so.

Or is there an exact limit where you automatically start being a discriminator? Are you being racist because you admit race is essential to some extent for Batman? Because if you think you're not, then you have to admit that BatmanForNever wasn't being a racist either for thinking the same about other characters. There's not a official list of characters that are okay being portrayed in a different race that I know, while some other just can't. It's all down to opinion.

And my previous post came from Darth Rockwell saying that "It doesn't matter race but the ability to bring the character to life. I rather have them get an actor who can play the part than an actor who just looks the part."

From that logic I can say that for me "it doesn't matter sex but the ability to bring the character to life. I rather have them get an actor who can play the part than an actor who just is the same sex as the original character."

 

[DA Dent]

That just shows the weakness of the character, if something like race doesn’t matter, the character isn't defined as well as they should be.

 

[MrQuinn]

That's like saying someone is sexist because he wants Batman to be portrayed by a man not a very talented actor woman.

I see your point, but one could argue that they used to always have a woman play Peter Pan... ? (not really trying to incite an argument here)

 

[MrQuinn]

I remember a "what if" issue with the concept of "What if...Stan Lee had created Batman?" and Stan Lee's Batman was in fact black. I don't recall any mention of Robin however.

 

[El Payaso]

I see your point, but one could argue that they used to always have a woman play Peter Pan... ? (not really trying to incite an argument here)

Ah yes. Well, I never had a problem with Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent. But if I had it would be because of everything but racism.

 

[BatmanForNever]

This thread has took a turn down stupid lane due to all the "racist" accusations being thrown about so carelessly. If you think I'm racist than your ******ed. I'm glad one person in this thread, El Payaso, sees eye to eye with me.


If Bruce Wayne is white than a white man should play him. Could you imagine Bruce Wayne being cast with a black actor and the directors reasoning was he'd rather have a black man that could act than a white man that couldn't. Fans would go in a frenzy. And I don't want Al Simmons to be played by a white guy. Gender, race, religion is all a very important on a character and their background. You just don't go changing a role and casting an actor of a different race than the source material just because you like that actor. The actor not only has to look the part but be able to play the part, and if either is missing the character is a failure.

Darth Rockwell your assumptions are making yourself look bad. You basically just said you'd rather have a black man play the role of a white man, than a white actor who could look the part but not act the part. So your saying every white man shouldn't be cast just because he's white now and the character is white?

And since when was Marlon Wayne's a good actor? He sucks. Tim Burton wasn't very faithful to the character. I'm not surprised he would cast Robin not only as a black man, but one who can't act.

Nothing in Dent's history says he's a white man, except decades of comics and Batman lore right?


You can crucify me all you want for wanting my movies to stay true to the source material. But don't call me racist when I'm not even around on the boards and not expect me to lash back at you for calling me such.

 

[willemjoker]

RE: the thread title. Warner Brothers should pay Marlan Wayans as much money as it takes to keep him the hell away from the Batman franchise. I'd happily contribute to sent a mountain of cash twice the size of the one in TDK to the Wayans family if they promise to keep the hell away from all comic book franchises.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I love how a man dressing up in a Batsuit is cool.

But a black billionaire, born from two black entrepreneurs is simply too unrealistic??

 

[willemjoker]

I love how a man dressing up in a Batsuit is cool.

But a black billionaire, born from two black entrepreneurs is simply too unrealistic??

That's a little disingenuous. We accept the idea of a man dressing up as a bat because it's the premise of the character, and the rest of his world operates on it's own internal logic in which that is possible. This doesn't mean that people wouldn't kick up a storm about Alfred being able to survive two days without oxygen, because there's nothing about the premise of Bruce Wayne being Batman that would give Alfred superhuman lung capacity. If Alfred had superpowers, it would have huge repercussions on the rest of the Nolanverse. Suddenly, we'd be in a world that accepts people having superpowers, we'd have to explain how Alfred came to have them - is he an alien, etc.?
If Bruce's parents had been black billionaires, then suddenly the historical context of the Nolanverse changes - did the civil rights struggle happen years earlier? How did this affect the presidencies of Kennedy, Johnson, etc.? How did this affect popular culture and politics - was there already a black president years before Obama, etc.?
The general rule of thumb in fiction is - the world is the same, except as necessary for the advancement of your premise. In Superman Returns, the world is the same, except Metropolis exists and a planet called Krypton once existed. Otherwise, the same. Superman can fly because he's an alien, but Lois Lane can't fly because that would be unrealistic - humans can't fly.

 

[Triadkd Returns]

White fanboys are racist and hypocrits. When the dragonball movie was announced and Goku was cast as a white guy, the fanboys defended it saying he was an alien and it didnt matter what color he was. Using that logic Superman could be played by a black guy, but we all know you guys would be jumping out of buildings if that happened. The reason its different with most black superheroes is that their origin is tied to their race. Anybody can be a nerdy student from Queens who is bitten by a spider, but not everyone can be an African king.

 

[Fresh Prince]

White fanboys are racist and hypocrits. When the dragonball movie was announced and Goku was cast as a white guy, the fanboys defended it saying he was an alien and it didnt matter what color he was. Using that logic Superman could be played by a black guy, but we all know you guys would be jumping out of buildings if that happened. The reason its different with most black superheroes is that their origin is tied to their race. Anybody can be a nerdy student from Queens who is bitten by a spider, but not everyone can be an African king.

I do not mind a black Superman or Batman. As long as they can act really good. I mean people say their no black billionaires, but in modern day today their are, which is what comic book films take palce in, not in the 1990s.

 

[Fresh Prince]

White fanboys are racist and hypocrits. When the dragonball movie was announced and Goku was cast as a white guy, the fanboys defended it saying he was an alien and it didnt matter what color he was. Using that logic Superman could be played by a black guy, but we all know you guys would be jumping out of buildings if that happened. The reason its different with most black superheroes is that their origin is tied to their race. Anybody can be a nerdy student from Queens who is bitten by a spider, but not everyone can be an African king.

I do not mind a black Superman or Batman. As long as they can act really good. I mean people say their no black billionaires, but in modern day today their are, which is what comic book films take palce in, not in the 1930s.

 

[El Payaso]

White fanboys are racist and hypocrits. When the dragonball movie was announced and Goku was cast as a white guy, the fanboys defended it saying he was an alien and it didnt matter what color he was. Using that logic Superman could be played by a black guy, but we all know you guys would be jumping out of buildings if that happened. The reason its different with most black superheroes is that their origin is tied to their race. Anybody can be a nerdy student from Queens who is bitten by a spider, but not everyone can be an African king.

When you say "white fanboys" I assume you're refering to every white fanboy, not only the ones who actually said that, right?

 

[Fresh Prince]

Micheal Jai White would be a great Batman. He has a great body, looks and can act pretty good.