Marvel and DC.

[Themanofbat]

So if they ever try giving Hawkeye another ongoing or mini, I'll probably check it out again. But if whoever wrote the last series gives another character I like alot a series, I won't. The author has a bigger factor in the quality of the comic than the character.

Ok.. we need some names here...

 

[Elijya]

Ok.. we need some names here...

It occurred to me as I typed I actually had never noticed who wrote it, but I just looked it up and, ha! It turns out it was Nicieza. He's usually hit-or-miss with me anyway.

 

[Green Lantern]

I'll say that I follow certain creators. I would read Captain Poo and the Dung Flavored Popsicle if it were done by Wolfman and Perez. And I HAVE dropped a comic for a bad creator. The only two issues of any Titans related series from 1980 onward that I don't own are the two that Rob Liefeld drew.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I read comics for both creators and characters. I make my decisions on whether to buy or drop comics based on a sort of ratio between character popularity and creator competence. I like Superman and Batman, for example, but I'll swear off their comics for years at a time due to bad creators without a second thought because, at the end of the day, I know they're not going anywhere. I'd probably stick with Nova's comic, on the other hand, even if DnA were replaced by crappy writers or a crappy artist came onboard because I have no guarantee that Nova's comic will still be published next year even with DnA putting out quality stories for him.

Granted, there are exceptions to either of those rules. If a creator comes onto an unpopular comic and just sucks to an ungodly degree, I'll drop it because at that point I'd prefer to see the character in limbo than abused so viciously by some hack. Likewise, I'll stick with favorite characters like Thor even if Warren Ellis came back to write him--even though Ellis showed me he didn't know or care how to write Thor in Worldengine back in the '90s, and even though I know his comic wouldn't be gone for long even if it were canceled--because I love Thor that much. Not reading a comic he's in is almost inconceivable to me.

So it's really a bit of a give-and-take depending on the situation for me. It's always dependent on the situation.

 

[Aristotle]

Are you joking or do you actually mean this?

If you're actually serious I can only say that characters and content vary in quality based on the ability of the creative team producing stories about them. People follow creative teams because they find that a given character is more entertaining as depicted by that team than by other artists and writers.

I mean, this really can't be that big of a revelation.

The problem is not giving new teams a chance. Like, why drop Astonishing when Whedon leaves, without giving Ellis a chance to make the title great in his own way? Why drop whichever Batbooks you were buying until Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul ended, just because it wasn't going to be fully in the control of the guy you liked? I mean, people do that ****, and I find that to be sadly limiting. We all have to take a chance if we're going to find new things. We can't we take chances on things we're already invested in?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Because a lot of us have taken a lot of chances on creators before and been burned by them every time. I won't touch anything Bendis writes involving superheroes because of how many times I've tried to get into his superhero writing, only to find it terrible. Ditto with Claremont, Ellis, and several other writers. I don't find it limiting at all to judge a writer on his past work, and if his past work has consistently sucked to you, aren't you basically just bending over and asking him to go another round on you if you continue to buy comics he writes?

 

[film_geek]

Because a lot of us have taken a lot of chances on creators before and been burned by them every time. I won't touch anything Bendis writes involving superheroes because of how many times I've tried to get into his superhero writing, only to find it terrible. Ditto with Claremont, Ellis, and several other writers. I don't find it limiting at all to judge a writer on his past work, and if his past work has consistently sucked to you, aren't you basically just bending over and asking him to go another round on you if you continue to buy comics he writes?

Wait... you... dislike Ellis?

Wow. We have vastly different tastes.

Because for the last two years or some, I've been falling in love with Ellis. As soon as I read Transmet, I started tracking down his other work. and with each book, it just keeps getting better. He's the only writer I've ever read that doesn't have one bad book out. Or at least, one that I've read. I've actually been on a quest to read everything he's ever done, to truly see if he never put out a bad book. so far, it's all been gold. Which is mind boggling, since before Ellis I was sure no one was perfect. Internet Jesus has proven me wrong.

but hey, to each their own. Some people think Loeb is a genius.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, I hate Ellis' work on big two superheroes. I love Planetary and Fell, and I want to get into his other Vertigo, Wildstorm, and indie work eventually. But Nextwave? Thunderbolts? Ass in a can. Same as Bendis, really.

 

[trustyside-kick]

If my memory serves me right, the only Bendis I read was his DD work before Brubaker took over; I loved it. That title has been immaculate to me since Kevin Smith's run on its start.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wasn't too taken by Daredevil under Bendis. I'm reading it now under Brubaker and enjoying it. Still, I did generally like it, I just couldn't muster the interest to keep reading it. But other than Daredevil and the first year or two's worth of arcs in Ultimate Spider-Man, I personally think Bendis' work on the mainstream Marvel stuff has been pretty awful. I've tried to read New Avengers at numerous points and it's always kind of had cool ideas, but the execution's always been really piss-poor.

 

[Xofenroht]

Generally whenever a new creative team cycles in I'll buy their first issue on that title then decide from there whether or not I want to stay on board. I've had to drop Uncanny and Adjectiveless on a few occasions.

 

[fifthfiend]

I wasn't too taken by Daredevil under Bendis. I'm reading it now under Brubaker and enjoying it. Still, I did generally like it, I just couldn't muster the interest to keep reading it. But other than Daredevil and the first year or two's worth of arcs in Ultimate Spider-Man, I personally think Bendis' work on the mainstream Marvel stuff has been pretty awful. I've tried to read New Avengers at numerous points and it's always kind of had cool ideas, but the execution's always been really piss-poor.

I actually got really tired of Powers three or four arcs in.

Too much of the "let's have the cops behave in morally ambiguous or outright villainous ways, but instead of acknowledging that this is in fact bad behavior, we'll have the narrative treat it as unabashed heroism, because they are The Cops, who are The Good Guys" kind of thing.

If I want that I'll just go watch Law and Order.

 

[Anubis]

I give new teams a chance, but if it doesnt do it for me, then I drop it. For instance Dropped BOP once Bedard or whoever his name is took over after I gave it three issues recently. Wasn't bad, just wasn't worth the cash I was dishing out. But i'd be damned if I'm gonna continue to pay my relatively hard earned money on something that's just Meh cuz I dig the characters. That's just crazy.

 

[Xofenroht]

Seriously, you might as well buy back issues of a better quality.

 

[film_geek]

No, I hate Ellis' work on big two superheroes. I love Planetary and Fell, and I want to get into his other Vertigo, Wildstorm, and indie work eventually. But Nextwave? Thunderbolts? Ass in a can. Same as Bendis, really.

Haven't read much of his big two work, but I loved Next Wave. They kick dogs and they explode. It's not meant to be taken seriously, it's meant to be over the top "WTF-ery". It makes Mark Millar looks cool, logical and level headed. I loved it.

Some of Ellis's best work is with Avatar, you should check that out if you get the chance. Apparat, Blackgas, and the ongoing Doktor Sleepless.

As for Bendis, he's hit and miss for me. the main problem is he can do good work, his earlier Ultimate Spider-man has shown that. He just gets lazy and doesn't try.

oh, and as for Ellis's big two work, I consider Ultimate Galactus to be some of the best stuff marvel has put out in years, second only ot the first two Ultimates. Ellis's run on UF4 was also great.

but again, I will freely and openly admit I'm Ellis's ****e.

 

[Anubis]

You must be to have liked that Gah Lac Tus s**t. Jesus Christ that was a turd.

And the main problem most people had that disliked Next wave was his total and complete mishandling of established characters. Had he just created his own characters, maybe they would have enjoyed it more. But apparently, you f**k up Machine Man, you get death threats. I just didn't find it all that funny and dropped it after the third issue.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Haven't read much of his big two work, but I loved Next Wave. They kick dogs and they explode. It's not meant to be taken seriously, it's meant to be over the top "WTF-ery". It makes Mark Millar looks cool, logical and level headed. I loved it.

And that's all well and good when it's not in continuity. As it stands now, I used to actually like the Machine Man. Now he's just ******ed organic-hating robot guy #512,301. Monica Rambeau was a genuinely good character who's now a parody of herself as well. I'm just glad Ellis didn't get his grubby mitts on Nick Fury like he originally planned.

Also, Nextwave wasn't even funny to me. I like over-the-top humor as much as the next guy--it's made me a giant Venture Brothers fan, for example--but Nextwave was just stupid. It was a bunch of decent third-string characters turned into horribly boring stereotypes and put in ridiculous yet unfunny situations. Lame.

But to each his own.

 

[film_geek]

And that's all well and good when it's not in continuity. As it stands now, I used to actually like the Machine Man. Now he's just ******ed organic-hating robot guy #512,301. Monica Rambeau was a genuinely good character who's now a parody of herself as well. I'm just glad Ellis didn't get his grubby mitts on Nick Fury like he originally planned.

Also, Nextwave wasn't even funny to me. I like over-the-top humor as much as the next guy--it's made me a giant Venture Brothers fan, for example--but Nextwave was just stupid. It was a bunch of decent third-string characters turned into horribly boring stereotypes and put in ridiculous yet unfunny situations. Lame.

But to each his own.

As I said, I'm not a huge Marvel or DC fan. I read a few series in trade, I'm trying to get all of the ultimate Universe in trade, but besides that, and Punisher Max and Runaways, I'm not big on Marvel. And if it wasn't for Batman, I'd never pick up any DC trades. I read Indie stuff, for two reasons, one, I've found it's usually better quality, and two, it's easier to pick up. you read one series, even one like fables, when you start at trade one, and work your way though. you have one series to read, and not two hundred spin offs, and you don't have years of continuity. You finish a series, you move to the next one.

But I have one quote from Ellis I'd like to share with you people who are complaining about the characters.

But if you're one of those real frightening anal sticklers for Marvel continuity? And you get genuinely angry about people playing fast and loose with Marvel comics canon? Please don't pick it up. You'll have a heart attack, and I don't need that on my conscience, despite the wonders it'd do for my reputation.

How can you read that and not love the man?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably because it makes him sound like a dick. Different people have different preferences. Some of us actually like worldbuilding and investing ourselves in ongoing fictional realities. Ellis doesn't care to deal with Marvel's continuity, which is fine. I just think his comics should thus be relegated to non-canon stories where he can't **** continuity up for those of us who do prefer to follow it. Seriously, would you have enjoyed Nextwave any less if it were done with a bunch of thinly veiled knock-offs of the characters involved, like Planetary is? He'd get to have his fun, you'd get to read it, and I could happily ignore it; everyone wins.

 

[film_geek]

Probably because it makes him sound like a dick. Different people have different preferences. Some of us actually like worldbuilding and investing ourselves in ongoing fictional realities. Ellis doesn't care to deal with Marvel's continuity, which is fine. I just think his comics should thus be relegated to non-canon stories where he can't **** continuity up for those of us who do prefer to follow it. Seriously, would you have enjoyed Nextwave any less if it were done with a bunch of thinly veiled knock-offs of the characters involved, like Planetary is? He'd get to have his fun, you'd get to read it, and I could happily ignore it; everyone wins.

But see, when it first came out, it was supposed to be out of cannon. Both Ellis and Joey Q said it's set in it's own little world. it's not meant to take real continuity.

writer Warren Ellis commenting on his Nextwave stories stated: "I think it has to be a self contained universe. It takes from Marvel history, but I wouldn't necessarily want to drag mainstream Marvel into it for fear of what I would do to it.”[8] In 2006 Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada stated that "for the time being" Nextwave was to be considered set in an universe separate from the main Marvel continuity.

also, as for making him sound like a dick, that's the point, he's being comical. It's his British sense of humour. Which I love, since I'm half British.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, and it would've been fine. I haven't read that quote, so it's at least nice to know that Ellis knows he shouldn't be let anywhere near Marvel canon. But I thought Nextwave had since been entered into official continuity. That's the part that really galls me; the crappy humor just made me pass on buying it.

 

[Themanofbat]

As I've stated on numerous occasions, I love Ellis' work on his own material, but he stinks to hugh heaven when it comes to other people's creations.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

On this, TMOB, we agree.

Even though I still secretly hate you a little for buying BND.

 

[Themanofbat]

On this, TMOB, we agree.

Even though I still secretly hate you a little for buying BND.

You know that love & hate are practically indistinguishable...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's true. You're still my number one, baby. :heart: