Really enjoyed this up until the finale. A fun Wednesday-night binge. The series felt like Daredevil meets Tulsa King. But then the 5th episode/finale went full-Ms. Marvel/Moon Knight and really **** the bed, IMO.
The finale did my boy D'Onofrio dirty too.
I'm glad they're taking a beat to figure out Born Again and how to progress characters like Murdock, Fisk, etc. forward.
Watched the first three episodes. I like it so far. Though, admittedly, Love & Thunder and She-Hulk soured me so much on the goofy satirical side of the MCU that I'm no doubt a bit biased towards serious drama now. Getting MCU without quips and bathos feels like coming up for fresh air.
So I didn't start this post trying to write a lot but somehow I did. Sorry
Finished this last night but I think I might give this show a 7.5/10. I like the story and the characters but my biggest issue is from a production standpoint. Where I criticized other MCU shows for feeling like movies that were decompressed to become shows, this feels like the opposite. I know one scooper said it was supposed to be 8 episodes, though I'm a bit more sceptical on that. Maybe in the writing process that was the case but from all other reports by the time they had started production, they had only filmed 6 episodes but edited down to 5. Not to mention all the other live action shows were only 6 episodes as well (with the exception of WandaVision and She-Hulk but they were purposely going for the 22-30 min sitcom style).
Echo is not the type of character that would work for a movie. If they had took the final product and edited down even more to a 2 hour film, it would have been worse off. Though I don't think a weekly show would have worked either, so as much as I'm more and more against bing watching, this was for the best for what we ending up getting. Echo benefits more from a character/crime drama show, to help flesh out her character, the supporting cast and the world a bit more. I feel we got that with a lot of the characters and sequences but only up to a point. I think this could have worked great as mini-series but I feel in an effort to "fix it post" (whether it was warranted or not) both helped and hurt the show in the end. I don't, however, think it was all due to the content of Echo itself, but rather due to the decision to make it more of a standalone show.
I feel the first episode wasn't supposed to be be edited the way it was or feature as many clips from Hawkeye as they did. I get why they did it and in the end it's probably best they did it that way for general viewers. For someone who didn't watch Hawkeye, it was probably fine but I do admit I found part of it a bit jarring. Could be wrong, but I feel some of the flashbacks in episode 1 were originally supposed to be sprinkled throughout show (and probably no Hawkeye clips either). That's not to say the originally filmed version of this show would have been guaranteed to be better though. I just wish the decision to make it a fully stand alone show came up when they were first developing it and not in post production.
I do admit the finale was a bit lackluster, specifically
the showdown with Kingpin and his men.
I feel that's more on the director and fight choragraphers than anything else. Which is crazy because while the all previous fight scenes were not on the same level as stuff we got in the Daredevil show, they were much better than what we got in this last episode. I get what they were going for and have no issue with it as a choice but the execution itself was really lacking. I feel there's could have been a better way they could have choreographed and shot those scenes.
I do like really like the idea of Kingpin having to deal with the emotions (and guilt?) of his past crimes though. I don't know if this thread will get ignored in Born Again but I do think it would be make for interesting motation to why he runs for mayor in that show.
I wasn't patricurily looking forward to this show when it was first announced but I ended up enjoying it for the most part. It has problems of course, but I'm glad it exists, if nothing else to showcase a lot of great, underrated actors like Graham Greene and Tantoo Cardinal. And of course more Vincent D'Onofrio is always good
Watched the first three episodes. I like it so far. Though, admittedly, Love & Thunder and She-Hulk soured me so much on the goofy satirical side of the MCU that I'm no doubt a bit biased towards serious drama now. Getting MCU without quips and bathos feels like coming up for fresh air.
Agreed. I'd say that's mainly because Gunn has a fairly uncommon ability to mix comedy and serious drama without the latter undermining the former. The Deadpool movies are the only other one's with a similar kind of execution (It's funny GotG, DP, and L&T all dealt with cancer and yet L&T is clearly the odd one out with how weird it feels tonally).
Anyway, just got done watching the last two episodes. I can still say I enjoyed it overall, I think the drama held up pretty well throughout and I'm intrigued to see how the events of the final episode affect Kingpin going forward, and I hope we see Echo again in other stuff.
One thing I'll say though is that I think the main reason a lot of people would find this show boring is because of a mismatch between the audience and the creators. This show is very clearly made by someone who doesn't particularly care about action or fight scenes, especially as we got to the last two episodes where there was no action in the 4th episode and one very rushed action sequence in the 5th that felt like it was just a means to an end rather than something the writer and director cared about focusing on. This is kind of a problem when one of the main things that draws people to superheroes is seeing heroes and villains engage in intense action sequences and fight scenes.
I finished the series and it was pretty bad. Very poor attempt at trying to recreate what the Marvel Netflix shows did a few years back, the story was non existent, character development was completely absent, even though the show wanted you to be moved emotionally by some relationships, and I think the protagonist's acting was weak.
I never had much confidence in Born Again but now it's at zero.
One thing I'll say though is that I think the main reason a lot of people would find this show boring is because of a mismatch between the audience and the creators. This show is very clearly made by someone who doesn't particularly care about action or fight scenes, especially as we got to the last two episodes where there was no action in the 4th episode and one very rushed action sequence in the 5th that felt like it was just a means to an end rather than something the writer and director cared about focusing on. This is kind of a problem when one of the main things that draws people to superheroes is seeing heroes and villains engage in intense action sequences and fight scenes.
Yea that's actually a good point. I imagine people going into The Penguin show later this year aren't expecting that type of stuff, so maybe it's issue with how the shows are 1.) being developed and 2.) then being advertised to viewers. While Echo is a physical fighter like Daredevil, I can see the argument of trying to make a show that focuses more on character drama than anything else. Not to say it shouldn't feature some type of action in it, but I don't think it's as much of a nescessity for this character than it would be for others. And I didn't mind the lack of fight scenes, I just wish they were better than we got.
I still have one episode to go, but I don't really like it. I think Maya is very unlikeable as a lead, I don't think I'm supposed to be rooting for Kingpin. 😅 Also some of the acting isn't great, especially Maya and the grandmother. The fight scenes are decent, but sometimes they feel too choreographed.
I was basically only watching this for DareDevil and Kingpin, I'm not interested if this gets a season 2 or a movie.
So, I've watched all the episodes now, and read all the comments here. Well, I actually enjoyed this. I was highly sceptic, especially watching the trailers focusing on full on violence and their ridiculous viewers warnings whatever that's called in the US lol. But also reading stuff about the production.
It's not perfect, but still pretty damn entertaining. I was soo glad to see Graham Greene again (way too long ago), and of course he stole the show. He had just the slight amount of perfect humouristic moments this show needed in its over all serious dramatic feature. His interactions with Tantoori Cardinal (also great) is priceless.
Donofrio as Fisk/Kingpin of course delieverd as expected, and thankfully back in form above the Hawkeye version. Seriously, he's so ridiculously damn good in some scenes here.
I didn't care for Echo in the Hawkeye show, but they really made us care for this character here IMHO. Her back story and all the flashbacks with the native tribe and their story of their gods really worked for me. Alaqua Cox did a great job sometimes just emoting with her eyes to communicate, and her action scenes was entertaining enough for me. And of course I was expecting (or rather hoping) just a little Daredevil action as much as anyone else, and that scene did what I was kinda expected.
I had low expectations going in, but went out surprisingly enjoyed. I understand people expected more action considering the trailers, but I personally enjoyed the slower dramatic moments here, since they were well written and acted IMHO.
Well damn, I don't know if to watch it or not. The reviews and reactions are all over the place. I think I'll just watch it out of curiosity at this point.
It feels like something was missing between Episodes 4 and 5. I think they cut a 6th episode out. Overall as a show I'd say it was a B, but episode 5 was a C-. Overall the show is lower tier MCU/TV, but not awful. Just not great.
I enjoyed this more the most part. My wife is Native-American, so seeing an MCU show focus on that was awesome. My only gripe is that ending seemed rushed.
And to those that criticized Alaqua Cox's acting, shame on you. She did pretty f***ing great for someone who hasn't done this before.
I enjoyed the experience of binging this and it gives me something quite different to other shows. Not sure I’d rewatch it beyond certain scenes though. I’m glad it exists and provides background to the character.
Well damn, I don't know if to watch it or not. The reviews and reactions are all over the place. I think I'll just watch it out of curiosity at this point.
This was ok; had some good moments, but also moments where I laughed when it probably wasn't the response they were going for. Would have worked better as a condensed special maybe?
I enjoyed the show overall. There was a sense of place with setting and the native American cultural elements didn't feel phoney. The supporting cast were all great. I liked all of them. Donofrio as Kingpin is great as always.
I get why some people found it hard to connect with Maya as the character was written as emotionally detached from her family and somewhat cold towards them which is understandable given the characters backstory.
I didn't hate this show nor did I love it. I think the lack of more episodes kind of hurt this IMO. Hard to get a real grasp on the new characters in just 5 short episodes. Maybe if the episodes were close to an hour long it would've helped. In the end, I think 8 episodes would have sufficed.
I so wanted it to be good but it ended up just okay. I guess for me the emotional payoff the show is trying hard to build up isn’t there. There is not enough time dedicated to developing the rapport between Maya and the rest. Bonnie for example is nothing more than kind of a “damsel in distress”. The show development was probably a rush or they didn’t have faith to flush those relationships out in a good story telling manner. It ended up me not caring much either Maya or her supporting characters. Or even Kingpin for that matter. The scarce action scenes are not particular impressive either.
Well, at least I like the music and song selections.
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