Marvel Studios & VFX

[BobJM]

Allegations of Marvel Studios’ less-than-stellar reputation amongst VFX artists continues to gain traction with this latest article via Vulture:

I’m a VFX Artist, and I’m Tired of Getting ‘Pixel-F–ked’ by Marvel

“The studio has a lot of power over the effects houses, just because it has so many blockbuster movies coming out one after the other. If you upset Marvel in any way, there’s a very high chance you’re not going to get those projects in the future. So the effects houses are trying to bend over backward to keep Marvel happy.”

Marvel has yet to respond in any significant way to any of these mounting allegations. Just wondering the general consensus around here.

I mean, yes, difficult clients suck. But that’s sort of the work-for-hire game, isn’t it? Make the client happy? I don’t support a toxic work environment but I understand the pressures of making sure your client is happy and understanding that contract renewals are dependent sometimes on massaging their egos and saying “yes, yes, yes” (even when there’s not a readily-easy solution in place yet) to make sure they’re satisfied and willing to come back for the next go round.

Additionally, is there a fan element to blame here? When I think of last-minute CGI fixes, I think Ugly Sonic and She-Hulk, both of which were razed on the internet until both respective studios acquiesced and went back to the VFX teams for fixing. Are we as a fan base now too hyper critical and do we share some of this blame of overworked & stressed artists?

Just curious where everyone stands on the topic; thought it worthwhile for a thread to discuss.

 

[Sithborg]

As with any labor issue, Management is the enemy. And I hate to break it to the fanboys, but Feige is management.

 

[MarvelFan]

As with any labor issue, Management is the enemy. And I hate to break it to the fanboys, but Feige is management.

I think this is more on Victoria Alonso than Kevin Feige, Sithborg...
Since she is the one in charge for post production and VFX at Marvel Studios.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't know what to say about this, but I wish the vfX of the shows are on par with the movies.

 

[metaphysician]

VFX artists, and the tech industry in general, need to be much more willing to unionize. And I say that as someone who is generally skeptical of unions and thinks they get way too much glorification; doesn't mean they can't and don't serve an actual pragmatic purpose.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They are an abused work force and things need to change. Period. Better pay, more reasonable hours, all that. Marvel Studios isn't the entire problem, but they certainly are a big part of it. These big studios need to change and treat people better. Hopefully they unionize and force something. I don't like any work force being abused. Industry norms or not

 

[Spider-Fan83]

does Marvel studio even do their own in house VFX? or do they still contract out their VFX work to other companies?

would be surprised to hear that they don't have their own VFX studio, but with multiple projects going on at any given time, I guess they can't divide they own work force...

but, if they still are contracting out their work to other companies, the treatment of those workers seems like it would be on the individual company, not them

 

[Sithborg]

does Marvel studio even do their own in house VFX? or do they still contract out their VFX work to other companies?

would be surprised to hear that they don't have their own VFX studio, but with multiple projects going on at any given time, I guess they can't divide they own work force...

but, if they still are contracting out their work to other companies, the treatment of those workers seems like it would be on the individual company, not them

A lot of the reports put most of the blame on what the client, IE Marvel, asks of them. And despite what the tax code likes to tell you, independent contractors are employees a lot of the time.

 

[Spider-Fan]

does Marvel studio even do their own in house VFX? or do they still contract out their VFX work to other companies?

would be surprised to hear that they don't have their own VFX studio, but with multiple projects going on at any given time, I guess they can't divide they own work force...

but, if they still are contracting out their work to other companies, the treatment of those workers seems like it would be on the individual company, not them

I never worked in the effects industry. But I at one point did work in the Estimating Department for a construction company. It works similar.

The client sends out a job they need. So let's say, Marvel here says they need 1000 shots done. Then VFX houses bid on the work. So they say we can do them for X dollars. They are bidding against many other companies, so these companies have to bid as low as possible to get the work.

So Marvel gives this company the job. Then Marvel decides these shots need reworked, let's say they decided on new designs and such. So these shots need revised now. But the revisions were not in your estimate, but you now have to do these revisions cause you are stuck with the job.

That is the issue. The industry is fashioned in such a way that the VFX houses bid as little as possible and force their employees to work all these extra items cause tithe client changed something. It is an awful system and it needs changed.

 

[Iceman]

I never worked in the effects industry. But I at one point did work in the Estimating Department for a construction company. It works similar.

The client sends out a job they need. So let's say, Marvel here says they need 1000 shots done. Then VFX houses bid on the work. So they say we can do them for X dollars. They are bidding against many other companies, so these companies have to bid as low as possible to get the work.

So Marvel gives this company the job. Then Marvel decides these shots need reworked, let's say they decided on new designs and such. So these shots need revised now. But the revisions were not in your estimate, but you now have to do these revisions cause you are stuck with the job.

That is the issue. The industry is fashioned in such a way that the VFX houses bid as little as possible and force their employees to work all these extra items cause tithe client changed something. It is an awful system and it needs changed.

That’s pretty terrible yeah. At least if revisions had to be paid for as standard it might help in fairness.

 

[Silvermoth]

Certainly not good news. At the very least, it’s obviously resulting in a poor product at the end lately and people are noticing. It’s in everyone’s interests for marvel to lighten up a bit and stop overworking them. These films pretty much rise and fall on the cgi

 

[First Avenger]

Yeah, this is the single biggest problem with these productions especially over the last few years. They need to get their **** together and improve the artists' working conditions. It's not like they lack resources, that's complete BS.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

again tho... it's on those individual company's for the conditions and pay of their employees

is Marvel taking advantage of a very broke system? yes
are they doing anything to better that system? no

but, their are not the cause of this per-existing issue

if these companies don't want to work with Marvel they don't have too, if they want to make higher bids to obtain the contract they can do that, or put clauses in those contracts about additional work or retouches... just saying

 

[Spider-Fan]

again tho... it's on those individual company's for the conditions and pay of their employees

is Marvel taking advantage of a very broke system? yes
are they doing anything to better that system? no

but, their are not the cause of this per-existing issue

if these companies don't want to work with Marvel they don't have too, if they want to make higher bids to obtain the contract they can do that, or put clauses in those contracts about additional work or retouches... just saying

This is classic victim blaming. That isn't really how it works in practice. Sure, these companies can bid higher, but the reality is they will be priced out by someone who will do it lower and these companies often take the work knowing they will actually lose money because they need to give employees something to do or they will all quit and leave. Then you have no company. The people at the top are the ones exploiting these VFX companies. They are the ones playing the companies like this and forcing them to take these bad deals. That is what happens with unregulated capitalism. If change is going to happen, it has to be forced from the top downward.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I'm not saying their "not victims", I'm just saying their victims of the industry as a whole

blaming "Marvel" (who is just the latest of big business that takes advantage of this industry/ with the deepest pockets) is just finger pointing.... they are easy targets right, now... and they are using that to draw attention to a long time problem that the industry has faced (which good for them for getting there message out there) but, is attacking Marvel really the answer? what will it achieve in the long run?

they need to fix the system as a whole...

sure Marvel could pay more, or they could be more upfront about the amount of work that will be required, they could be less demanding about quality of the work/ never make any last minute changes... , and soo on

Marvel is facing the demands of the industry as well, they need to get projects out fast, they need to meet certain standards (mostly set by us Fans btw, so, we're hardly innocent in all this ourselves) or they well become culturally irrelevant.... then it comes full circle if Marvel stops making movies thats less work for these VFX companies, or some other "big studio" will just come in an take their place

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not saying their "not victims", I'm just saying their victims of the industry as a whole

blaming "Marvel" (who is just the latest of big business that takes advantage of this industry/ with the deepest pockets) is just finger pointing.... they are easy targets right, now... and they are using that to draw attention to a long time problem that the industry has faced (which good for them for getting there message out there) but, is attacking Marvel really the answer? what will it achieve in the long run?

they need to fix the system as a whole...

sure Marvel could pay more, or they could be more upfront about the amount of work that will be required, they could be less demanding about quality of the work/ never make any last minute changes... , and soo on

Marvel is facing the demands of the industry as well, they need to get projects out fast, they need to meet certain standards (mostly set by us Fans btw, so, we're hardly innocent in all this ourselves) or they well become culturally irrelevant.... then it comes full circle if Marvel stops making movies thats less work for these VFX companies, or some other "big studio" will just come in an take their place

Yes, it is a system wide issue. On that we agree. But Marvel is top dog of the industry right now, and with their constant increased project load, I think pointing the finger is fair. But yes, the system itself needs changed

 

[Sithborg]

And lets face it, their schedule IS a problem. A small disruption to one project would cause issues with their greater schedule.

 

[Silvermoth]

I would happily have less marvel properties if it meant people got to enjoy their weekends

 

[Mr. Peanut]

That is what happens with unregulated capitalism.

Yeah all the problems mentioned in this topic just seem to be a fundamental consequence of capitalism. It's why most jobs have a ****ty workload and ****ty pay. There will always be people willing to debase themselves and endure as much misery as is physically possible in order to get a job.

 

[Albright]

we’re at times where a lot of people don’t have work, because industry is cutting production due to the energy costs…and this will even progress the coming years.
Having a job with ****full of workload is better than having no work t all.
I’m sleeping so little right now every night, because of fear of losing my job

 

[Holy Slapper]

I would happily have less marvel properties if it meant people got to enjoy their weekends

The studio head would just sign a deal with a different studio. That's where the problem is. Stupid studio head making deals at a loss and bad schedule.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Yes, it is a system wide issue. On that we agree. But Marvel is top dog of the industry right now, and with their constant increased project load, I think pointing the finger is fair. But yes, the system itself needs changed

As long as it's showbusiness and not show friends, it's going to be hard to change anything.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[BatLobster]

Yep, just read that Gizmodo article.

Abuse of Visual Effects Artists Is Ruining the Movies

Almost every studio has some sort of cry room where people will just go into and cry for 10 minutes and then they come back out and do their job.” H explained, “I have had artists who have had H.R. step in and say, ‘We have to take you off this show because it’s unhealthy and we’re concerned for your safety.’ There’s been fist fights in the middle of the studio. People just reach a cracking point… I’ve been on shows that were doing 60, 70-hour weeks for five weeks straight, full of people who don’t see their family anymore. And that’s standard across the industry.

This is absolutely sickening stuff. The crazy thing is the VFX studios are barely even profiting, yet they're the glue holding this whole superhero thing together.

The industry has to change. There is a bloat of content and it's not sustainable. Marvel should step up and do something to start fixing it as the leaders of this era of content we're in. I really hope John Oliver does a story about this soon and more people become aware of this problem.

I'm about ready to boycott Marvel. No Way Home was the last thing I saw from them and that's a pretty good way to bow out.

 

[Originalavenger]

So marvel is the only company making movies that use VFX??!! Everyone should chip in so let’s not go over critical on marvel please