Marvel Studios will Go Head to Head with Batman vs. Superman

[Heretic]

Did he hurt them? No. Is his story made of situations where he acts in a violent way? No. But the Superman story is. Why can´t you just see the huge freaking difference?



I can´t help but notice how much this statement contrasts with some of your previous ones, like "Because he is so perfect, he always finds a way, even when there´s no way".

Yeah, you actually said something like that.



To me it was obvious he had a problem with it.

Apparently you missed the MANY times that I stated that Zod was smarter than Superman and a much better strategist??? The idea is that Superman can rise above his limitations. I've said that many times. He is a simple farm boy who somehow figures out a way to defeat a military genius in combat. It's part of what inspires a handicapped reader to achieve great things, or a poor reader to strive to be wealthy. Superman is a symbol that a simple farm boy with a modest upbringing can be a symbol of hope for us all.

 

[Marvin]

^Spiderman is also an inspiration and symbol for all his 'handicapped readers'. All that can be achieved with the character being perfect.

So...again...WHY should I want a Superman movie rather than a Supreme movie or a Prime movie or Shazam or Mr Majestic or The Sentry or any number of others. There MUST be some traits unique to Superman that FEEL right that the others don't possess. "His name is Clark and he wears an S on his chest" isn't good enough.

Simply, if you outline the differences between the characterization in MOS with that of Supreme or the Sentry, you'll have your answer. It's really that simple. The problem is, you watch mos and you only see an S, and blue tights, hard punching and no jesus. You can't see all the superman that is there. It's like it's not caricatured enough for you to notice or something.

I mean seriously?

---ten points if you can notice the crying in the last panel.
You don't see a difference between this and MOS outside of the S(well I guess they both have that too), than you are simply being hyperbolic. I mean why did Sentry rip ares in two? Did he have to? Now, why did CavEl do what he did, in terms of neck and in terms of having too...If people don't like what that Sentry is about, maybe they will like what MOS is selling, it's pretty damn different imo. But hey it's not quite christ so maybe they won't see the difference after all.

And yes they changed ironman from the 'definitive'(whatever that was), and the world kept on spinning. Changing superman from your 'definitive' isn't the end of the world. Even if, like MOS they make slight changes. Before we get into the minutia of why one is acceptable and other other one not, at least be aware of the possibility that 'definitive' doesn't mean best. So stating that it's simply different is only half a point.

 

[Heretic]

No...see, in The Sentry movie, he doesn't kill like that. They have decided to change that aspect of his character to be more like Man of Steel.

It is HILARIOUS that you're now arguing that The Sentry HAS to be a certain way towards criminals, but Superman CANT be tied down the way you tied down The Sentry.

So yeah...keeping in mind that The Sentry will not be acting like that in this new movie, why should I see Superman instead...or why should I see The Sentry instead. I mean...ripping villains in half would be awesome...but the movie is changing that aspect of the character, which is totally allowed.

 

[Marvin]

No...see, in The Sentry movie, he doesn't kill like that. They have decided to change that aspect of his character to be more like Man of Steel.

It is HILARIOUS that you're now arguing that The Sentry HAS to be a certain way towards criminals, but Superman CANT be tied down the way you tied down The Sentry.

So yeah...keeping in mind that The Sentry will not be acting like that in this new movie, why should I see Superman instead...or why should I see The Sentry instead. I mean...ripping villains in half would be awesome...but the movie is changing that aspect of the character, which is totally allowed.

Sigh, where did I say anything about the Sentry having to be anything? I simply referenced what he is in the more recent comics and I did so as to explain to you how he's different from MOS.
Prudent, cause you keep going on about how they are all the same right now cause of the story Snyder told.

I do like how you ignored the entire point of my post though, thank you for that. Again, tell me do you see how the MoS is far more 'superman' like than this Sentry? Do you see why someone(obviously not you) may like this character in MoS more or less than that very different character in Sentry? I hope so, otherwise I think I'm at a massive disadvantage.

As for what they are going to be doing with the Sentry...that waits to be seen. There have been a few interpretations. If they touch on his mental instability in some form I'm sure it would be interesting. Sentry has an interesting two with various mental states and personalities along the way. A key aspect being 'The Void' vs 'Robert Reyonds'.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Captain America 3 against Batman Vs. Superman.

 

[Space Ghost]

Captain America 3 against Batman Vs. Superman.

That´s not fair.

 

[Marvin]

Captain America 3 against Batman Vs. Superman.

I almost forget the name of this thread.

Anyways, BvS will have the added advantage of discovery in the new batman/wondy stuff. That reason alone will probably steal the show at the con this year.

 

[Heretic]

Sigh, where did I say anything about the Sentry having to be anything? I simply referenced what he is in the more recent comics and I did so as to explain to you how he's different from MOS.
Prudent, cause you keep going on about how they are all the same right now cause of the story Snyder told.

I do like how you ignored the entire point of my post though, thank you for that. Again, tell me do you see how the MoS is far more 'superman' like than this Sentry? Do you see why someone(obviously not you) may like this character in MoS more or less than that very different character in Sentry? I hope so, otherwise I think I'm at a massive disadvantage.

As for what they are going to be doing with the Sentry...that waits to be seen. There have been a few interpretations. If they touch on his mental instability in some form I'm sure it would be interesting. Sentry has an interesting two with various mental states and personalities along the way. A key aspect being 'The Void' vs 'Robert Reyonds'.

I didn't ignore anything...you're just arguing both sides, depending which is your preference at the time. You are arguing that years of Superman stories that became so ingrained with the character that he was given nickname known throughout comic fandom can be ignored...and then using one page from Sentry to tell me how he would act with Zod.

My point is...YES...there are certain things about Sentry that are so ingrained in the character, scenes so spectacular or well known...that it would be silly to make a Sentry movie that doesn't allow for those aspects. You might as well call the character something else entirely if you're going to change that stuff. I feel that way about most characters (Batman's parents are dead and he doesnt use guns, Punisher's family was killed and he kills bad guys, etc etc etc). You seem to feel that way about some, and not others, seemingly at your own whim.

 

[Hush]

Can the argument end, this isn't what the thread is about.

 

[Incrediblejeff]

Before I was more excited for Batman vs Superman,but after finally seeing Captain America 2.I'm way more excited for Cap 3.(even though this battle won't happen since someone will move).

 

[metaphysician]

How can a man raised by humans be better then humans? Clark above all else if the boy raised by the Kents. Also it implies that Clark sees himself as better then humans, which he doesn't.

Well, he certainly *shouldn't*. Going by the ending of MoS, he seems to, though.

 

[Marvin]

@Heretic
I wasn't arguing what Sentry should or shouldn't be like if they made a movie, or what he would do to Zod. I gave you an example of what he did to his own enemy. I simply asked you if you saw any difference between: This Superman, and how Sentry is currently portrayed in the comics? Nothing more.

You said they were all so similar that there is no point in choosing one over the other. Seems like a simple enough question from my stand point. I'm starting to have my doubts you'll ever answer it though.

Can the argument end, this isn't what the thread is about.

Sure. I won't reply on the subject further.

 

[Warhammer]

Some people just keep b****ing about Man of Steel. Get the hell over it.

 

[mclay18]

I'm personally curious where BvS will move to. WB locked up the mid-July spot with King Arthur and I can't see them moving back to June.

I'm surprised WB isn't trying to beat Marvel Studios at their own game. People seem to forget that CA:TWS was supposed to debut two weeks after ASM2, but Marvel thought "Screw it" and moved it to April 4. People like to disparage MOS and the upcoming follow-up, but BvS has that kind of free publicity no matter how good TWS is.

Moving to April gives WB a wide field to play in and rack in the money. People who say "I'm not going to see BvS because MOS sucks" will be there opening weekend just to see for themselves. The novelty of the concept, plus WW in her screen debut? Plus if it's a decent movie, all things considered, it's going to make a lot.

Hell, just by moving up BvS up 2-3 weeks ahead (rather than a month ahead) -- gives consumers a breather and get pumped up for CA3. Both are winners if this happens. Marvel keeps that May spot, but WB gets their big movie out first. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't done that.

 

[Octoberist]

Yeah, i'm with many here: BvS will move for sure. There's just too much momentum on Marvel's part. They're proven that they're a force in Hollywood and besides, they had the date first. WB's DC films (post-Nolan) are unproven and dare I say thus far, a little directionless. I don't completely trust Goyer or Synder, but I hope for the best for the film.

 

[Visualiza]

Some people just keep b****ing about Man of Steel. Get the hell over it.

And the sycophants won't stop crying about the criticism it has received, nor will they stop trying to tell everyone that it's the CBM Citizen Kane.

There are two sides to that coin.

 

[Octoberist]

I've tried to like Man of Steel; I can only moderately enjoy it.

 

[Marvin]

And the sycophants won't stop crying about the criticism it has received, nor will they stop trying to tell everyone that it's the CBM Citizen Kane.

There are two sides to that coin.

Cit Kane?
More like one side of the coin reads 'worst worst worst'.. the other 'side' question that sentiment. For I don't really see these sorts of debates really involve anyone saying it's the 'best best best'.

Hyperbole reigns supreme since last june.

 

[Visualiza]

^There's no way in hell you haven't seen anyone declare MoS to be the best genre movie. It's in enough people's sigs, for crying out loud.

Add to that, their egos won't let them so much as empathize with those that see the flaws present. With the more ardent fans, every dissenter, no matter how moderate, has a hidden agenda. I've heard everything from the typical accusations of being Donner/Marvel fanboys & haters, to ridiculous nonsense such as being too stupid to understand such an intellectually stimulating summer blockbuster or that they simply "forgot how to enjoy a film" (WHAT?). The fact of the matter is that a good movie, especially one as good as some MoS fans insinuate, doesn't need to be defended so savagely, let alone illogically. The amount of straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, and poisoning the well I've seen from some of the defenders of this movie just staggers me. Never saw that sort of thing with a movie like TDK.

My point is that there are those of us who are as tired of the sycophants as people like Warhammer up there is of the...ahem...haters.

 

[Marvin]

^Like I said, I don't see those types of debates on here. I'm sure lots of people love the film.

As for what you are talking about; for me it's not about proclaiming every one that hates or even simply doesn't like the film to be coming from a place of agenda or donner or what not. I find plenty of films lame for all sorts of reasons(cbms in particular). It's about the the extent to which the presence of such things exists within the reception to the film en mass. That's great to that you have your reasons, but to suggest that this other stuff isn't overly abundant, no bueno. This last discussion I got into just now for example. Not only is it commonplace for such qualms to be framed such a way but it's almost proudly exhibited. Only with a scenario such as this would walking in (with) preconceptions be so accepted.

As for TDK, it probably didn't encounter this element of debate due in part to the different scenario it faced when it came to preconceptions and going against them.
That's what I think anyways.

Adhominem eh? This is a message board.

 

[Heretic]

@Heretic
I wasn't arguing what Sentry should or shouldn't be like if they made a movie, or what he would do to Zod. I gave you an example of what he did to his own enemy. I simply asked you if you saw any difference between: This Superman, and how Sentry is currently portrayed in the comics? Nothing more.

You said they were all so similar that there is no point in choosing one over the other. Seems like a simple enough question from my stand point. I'm starting to have my doubts you'll ever answer it though.


Sure. I won't reply on the subject further.

Because it is a rigged question with a false premise. WHO CARES what the comic shows? I mean...the entire argument has been that the YEARS of Superman comics that have given him a certain reputation worldwide can be tossed aside.

So, yeah...Sentry in that one panel is nothing like the character in Man of Steel. So what? If they make a Sentry movie, they could just as easily change the character to where he doesn't kill bad guys, and you'd have to support that because you're on record that things like that can be changed without sacrificing what makes the character what he is.

It seems that you're saying that Sentry has established a definitive version that would have to be followed in the movies, but that Superman has not, and therefore can be changed at the whims of a director.

I'm saying that Superman has a code against the death penalty...and Sentry will rip a villain in half. It would be wrong to make Sentry not like that in a movie, just as its wrong to take away Superman's stance against the death penalty. If movies did both, then you'd end up with two characters who might as well be the same guy and one of them has no need to exist. But if you make Superman the Big Blue Boy Scout, and make Sentry the vicious bad guy ripper, then you have room for Supreme to have a film where he is somewhere in the middle. Each has a different viewpoint, and therefore, a reason to exist.

 

[Iceman]

This is a very silly situation for 2 big comic films. If they really do open on the same day I'll watch neither on opening day. Not going to encourage this kind of behaviour.

 

[Marvin]

@Heretic,
I see now that when you said This superman was no different than the Sentry you meant the Tentry that exists in make that believe movie you've imagined up. You weren't talking about the one that exists today in the comics(that's ripped multiple people apart). You know, I think this superman is probably the same as Lucifer too, in a movie where Lucy is a costumed hero that I've dreamed up. That way I can say MOS is the same as any rotten old character I want.
I think I understand now.

In fairness to answer your question(I assume you asked). I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the Sentry in a film, as along as like with mos, they kept what was important. Same with Ironman, same with blade, same with batman. Some heroes kill and smoke cigars afterwards, some kill and go about their business, some like superman(in canon) do other things.

 

[Heretic]

@Heretic,
I see now that when you said This superman was no different than the Sentry you meant the Tentry that exists in make that believe movie you've imagined up. You weren't talking about the one that exists today in the comics(that's ripped multiple people apart). You know, I think this superman is probably the same as Lucifer too, in a movie where Lucy is a costumed hero that I've dreamed up. That way I can say MOS is the same as any rotten old character I want.
I think I understand now.

In fairness to answer your question(I assume you asked). I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the Sentry in a film, as along as like with mos, they kept what was important. Same with Ironman, same with blade, same with batman. Some heroes kill and smoke cigars afterwards, some kill and go about their business, some like superman(in canon) do other things.

Yep, thats exactly what I'm talking about...a film that does not yet exist. Before man of Steel was made, it didn't exist either...and they made the decision to NOT go with the Big Blue Boy Scout and instead move the character closer to every other character in comics. That means that there is now less room for other characters to stand out. I don't want a comic book movie every week if they all have the same outlooks on justice etc. I can't imagine caring to see what is essentially the same character played by a different actor with a different name every week. However, if you make a new movie every week that shows the incredible range of characters in comics...some comedies, come depressing as heck, some that inspire etc etc, then I'd never get sick of seeing them. We are living at a time where LOTS of comic movies are made. Last year we had a streak where something like 5 comic book movies were released in 3 weeks. If we are going to water down every character then what's the point?

 

[DACrowe]

Throwing this in is meaningless because:

1) The two movies will obviously not meet (Marvel will move unless Disney moves Star Wars into that slot to scare WB off)

2) I prefer Marvel...

...But to answer the question of the hour: I would see Batman vs. Superman first. I think the Russo brothers are smarter storytellers than Zack Snyder, and Cap 2 was much better than Man of Steel (though Cap 1, not so much...). Still, Batman and Superman have a certain mythic appeal to me while Captain America has always felt like Superman light. In its few best moments there is something intangibly wonderful about Superman mythos that involve Krypton, and Jor-El, and Lois Lane. Batman is like that except not boring. Cap 2 was a fine piece of popcorn escapism, but more because it felt like a SHIELD movie that Cap happened to be the star of.

Just my own two cents on all this.