Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[Donut]

Um, no.

There's no emergency anything for WB because they can and will be very financially stable without needing to scramble to make a JLA movie.

Will The Avengers success prompt them to take another look at making a JLA movie? Without question. But you people need to get through your heads that there's not some foolish Marvel vs. DC war between the studios where they both feel the need to constantly one-up each other.

I never said there was a war. But the huge success of The Avengers will be making the WB think twice or how ever many times about Justice League & a shared Universe for their movies

 

[Micromind]

WB are sure that their Lobo movie will blow away Avengers records.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't know. While WB doesn't *need* a JLA movie, and thus doesn't have a rational reason to make a rush decision, I think there is a decent chance they *will* do so. They've mishandled their own properties so many times already, its not a bad bet to assume they will continue to do so at least sometimes.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Looks like it. I mean there has been so many problems with Marvel movies. Some of the movies were failures (Blade: Trinity and Elektra) because they were mishandled and X3 seems to be mishandled by FOX. Yet, while all this, is happening, DC is making a comeback in movies. Batman and Superman movies are already in the works, with one coming this year and the other coming next. And more are sure to follow because Batman and Superman are iconic figures. Fantastic Four is Marvel's saving grace this year, if it fails, Marvel will suffer heavily. Plus, DC is getting real talent to take over its movies ( i.e. Christopher Nolan, Bryan Singer, etc).

 

[CConn]

I never said there was a war. But the huge success of The Avengers will be making the WB think twice or how ever many times about Justice League & a shared Universe for their movies

Yes, then I agree. I think they will reconsider development of a JLA film.

Just minus the "emergency" meetings.

 

[CConn]

Btw, before we laugh too hard at the OP (although some of you plebeians are already doing so), we do have to look back at when this thread was created. In 2005, Marvel - or rather the companies who Marvel leased their characters to - was slowly driving the superhero movie genre into the ground.

After the unarguable success of Spider-Man and X-Men, Fox, Sony, etc. preceded to make multiple embarrassing failures. X3, Spider-Man 3 (although that was 2007, I will admit), Daredevil, Elektra, Fantastic Four, etc. were entirely half-hearted and half-assed efforts that from their very inception was littered with talentless directors with mediocre visions.

It was DC - or rather, it was Christopher Nolan - who reinvigorated the trend of making legitimately quality superhero movies, with a strong focus on assembling quality groups of casts and crews to bring those incredible visions to life. I guarantee superior film efforts such as Iron Man, X-Men: First Class, etc. were born in part to Nolan's influence on the genre as a whole.

What Marvel did do, was have the (admittedly brilliant) idea of ending outside studio involvement and creating their own production company to handle the production of their films and maintain a high level of creative quality and control. And now all of us fans are praising their insight in this endeavor, and are squabbling for WB to mirror their successful business strategy.

So really, the original poster was quite right in 2005; the era of leased Marvel characters being adapted by outside interests was quickly failing, and the concept of a centralized production company (which WB already had) would come to be the prevalent way to plan and produce superhero films.

And the lingering Spider-Man and X-Men franchises have only stayed alive due to their embrace of Chris Nolan and Marvel's creative philosophies.

 

[Captain Marvel]

And you're, what, a forum patrician? A wrong prediction is a wrong prediction. The talent which they got to take over their movies either failed miserably (Singer with Superman Returns), or Whedon and Goyer, who never got their respective projects off the ground thanks to WB.

So yeah, it is funny to look back at a prediction which was almost wholly incorrect.

 

[CConn]

Hah. I just wanted to see if you knew what the word plebeian meant. Good job.

But no, a wrong prediction from 7 years that actually had a fair point based on the information and current events of the time is not in and of itself amusing to me.

Now, if he had said we'd have atomic-powered vacuum cleaners by now? Ho boy, I'd be in stitches.

 

[CConn]

Also...

1. It's relative quality aside, I'll always argue that Superman Returns was a good business decision by WB. Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time they had hired one of the premiere superhero creative minds in the business and nurtured his idea in a similar way that they did Nolan's. It's just by misfortunte that his vision wasn't on the level of Nolan's Batman ideas.

2. SR did not fail miserable. It had a mediocre box office take, and lukewarm critical reception. That's not opinion or supposition, that's just straight truth according to the accepted shorthands of the industry (IE; making more than your budget = success, only make back your budget = mediocre, not making back your budget = failure). Either way, I think we can all agree WB was wise to discontinue that vision of Superman.

3. Who knows the quality of Goyer and Whedon's respective pitches. It's possible they were quite wholly horrible.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Any prediction probably had some basis or else the person making it would've said something different. It's still pretty laughable in retrospect. Maybe not delusional, but still a pretty wrong prediction. I wouldn't be hitting this guy up for movie forecasting to say the least. You know what's real laughable: the people who insisted Avengers would either A) make less money than DC's TDK or B) it would be just some 'dumb popcorn flick'. Instead we got C) a financial juggernaut that appears about as well reviewed as any superhero movie made.

 

[chamber-music]

WB would be stupid to rush out a Justice League movie. If they want to make a JL movie fine but not as a rushed out reaction to The Avengers success.

 

[CConn]

Exactly. I definitely expect them to revist the project, but I'm sure a JLA movie 5 years from now would be just as likely to succeed as one released 2 years from now.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

With Bale and Nolan's run wrapping up, and the MOS more or less being it's own thing, I wouldn't be surprised if WB goes the opposite route with Justice League. They'll make Justice League first and then spin offs after. It doesn't do them any good to do a re-set up. Avengers needed the concepts and origins established first, and in the case of Hulk they still kind of made it a "sidequel" to the first Hulk by picking up with Banner on the run instead of re-establishing his origin. It doesn't make sense for WB to re-explain the roles of Superman and Batman, and they seem tentative with movement on the Flash and Wonder Woman. With the incredible, mind blowing, unbelieveable success of Avengers, it makes more sense for them to cut to the chase and possible with a new or partially new cast.

 

[eddy]

>Plebians

Really??

 

[CConn]

It's that level of pompousness that won me my girlfriend's heart.

 

[Panthro]

Well one thing we can all agree on - Marvel's still got the edge over DC at the movies.

 

[CConn]

Yes. And they should be given particular credit for their decision to turn Marvel Studios into the only producer of their films, and their idea to tie all of their films into a singular universe.

That said, I do think they still have room to grow in terms of lifting the quality level of their films from "fun" summer action movies (and it can be amazingly, spectacularly fun, don't get me wrong), into genuinely great films that advance the overall quality and art form of superhero films.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting them at all for not doing that yet - that's simply what I'd like to see from them next.

 

[Panthro]

Yes. And they should be given particular credit for their decision to turn Marvel Studios into the only producer of their films, and their idea to tie all of their films into a singular universe.

That said, I do think they still have room to grow in terms of lifting the quality level of their films from "fun" summer action movies (and it can be amazingly, spectacularly fun, don't get me wrong), into genuinely great films that advance the overall quality and art form of superhero films.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting them at all for not doing that yet - that's simply what I'd like to see from them next.

I'm sure with each success they'll get a little bolder and branch out a little more. This whole thing was one big experiment, and a little caution never hurts (too much or too little of anything can be detrimental but you know what I mean).

 

[CConn]

Yep.

I really hope they adapt the Winter Soldier storyline in Cap 2. It's a great opportunity to have a really phenomenal action/espionage movie.

 

[bunk]

WB just needs to put together some quality projects beyond Superman. I don't think it makes much difference whether a team movie is one of those projects.

 

[Panthro]

WB just needs to put together some quality projects beyond Superman. I don't think it makes much difference whether a team movie is one of those projects.

Beyond Superman AND Batman. Though it's been a long time since Superman had a quality film.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Why don't people understand it's not marvel vs dc its marvel vs WB or more accurately now disney vs WB.

The avengers will not put pressure on wb since it has a lot of its own properties to develop aside from dc characters.

If it does decide to make a justice league movie (not likely anytime soon) it will be purely for its own financial interests not for the sake of competing with marvel studios.

 

[T"Challa]

Why don't people understand it's not marvel vs dc its marvel vs WB or more accurately now disney vs WB.

The avengers will not put pressure on wb since it has a lot of its own properties to develop aside from dc characters.

If it does decide to make a justice league movie (not likely anytime soon) it will be purely for its own financial interests not for the sake of competing with marvel studios.

Exactly. DC entertainment is only one branch of WB. I'm sure a potential JL movie is much more intriguing to the execs now than it was a month ago due to the success of the Avengers, but they're not going to fast track anything just to compete with Marvel.

 

[K'Prime]

I can't believe someone actually brought this thread back from the depths of hell just to try and stick it.actually i can believe it but seriously just drop the ****.

And the lingering Spider-Man and X-Men franchises have only stayed alive due to their embrace of Chris Nolan and Marvel's creative philosophies.

Pretty sure there alive because fox and sony still see $ signs around them

 

[brainchild81]

WB just needs to put together some quality projects beyond Superman. I don't think it makes much difference whether a team movie is one of those projects.

They need some quality projects beyond Batman. That last Superman flick was not quality.

Also...

1. It's relative quality aside, I'll always argue that Superman Returns was a good business decision by WB. Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time they had hired one of the premiere superhero creative minds in the business and nurtured his idea in a similar way that they did Nolan's. It's just by misfortunte that his vision wasn't on the level of Nolan's Batman ideas.

2. SR did not fail miserable. It had a mediocre box office take, and lukewarm critical reception. That's not opinion or supposition, that's just straight truth according to the accepted shorthands of the industry (IE; making more than your budget = success, only make back your budget = mediocre, not making back your budget = failure). Either way, I think we can all agree WB was wise to discontinue that vision of Superman

The OP was premature. DC hadn't put out anything at the time that would validate it. He was wrong. Plain & simple.

The problem w/SR is not Singer's vision. It's that Singer was foolish enough to take another man's extremely dated vision & run w/it. Why nobody tapped him on the shoulder & said "Make your own movie. Donner's vision is best left in the past" is beyond me.

Avengers is amazing. The best Superhero flick ever IMO. I figured it'd be good, but not that good.

Part of me is starting to wish this next Batman flick would have been the 2nd one &TDK'd been saved for last. I honestly don't see how they're gonna top or even equal TDK. I hope I'm wrong, but that'd be rare. It should still be a good film tho.

I don't expect the next Supes film to be much. The odds are against a truly great Supes film because he's not that great of a character IMO.