Matthew Vaughn Mentions X-Men

[X-Maniac]

Totally agreed, everytime i watch X2, i feel like crying, it is literally THE perfect set up for an awesome 3rd movie. I remember thinking to myself before X3 came out "You cant **** up that set up, you just cant" I was COMPLETELY wrong.

Shame Vaughn left though, it would have interesting to see his version.

Only Bryan Singer could have seamlessly completed the story arcs he set up in X1 and X2.

As soon as you have other creative people - new writers and a director - you are going to get a different vision and different ideas.

Just imagine if JK Rowling handed over her last Potter book to Jackie Collins to finish off!

What we got with X3 was another creative team's ideas added to the mix, their interpretations of what needed finishing off and how it needed to be finished, and their ideas of what needed changing.

 

[Neto Magnus]

Only Bryan Singer could have seamlessly completed the story arcs he set up in X1 and X2.

As soon as you have other creative people - new writers and a director - you are going to get a different vision and different ideas.

Just imagine if JK Rowling handed over her last Potter book to Jackie Collins to finish off!

What we got with X3 was another creative team's ideas added to the mix, their interpretations of what needed finishing off and how it needed to be finished, and their ideas of what needed changing.

yea and I'm sure even Vaughn might've ****ed up X3. But Ratner, thats a whole nother story.

 

[X-Maniac]

yea and I'm sure even Vaughn might've ****ed up X3. But Ratner, thats a whole nother story.

Well, as the polar opposite to Singer, he was the wrong person to finish off the stories. Especially as he'd never done an FX movie before. But Fox was desperate and he was the only person who'd do it, and probably the only person with the energy to get it done... But remember he didn't write the story (though he did change it)... and Fox had mandates and parameters for certain characters that were dictated to the writers.

 

[Neto Magnus]

Well, as the polar opposite to Singer, he was the wrong person to finish off the stories. Especially as he'd never done an FX movie before. But Fox was desperate and he was the only person who'd do it, and probably the only person with the energy to get it done... But remember he didn't write the story (though he did change it)... and Fox had mandates and parameters for certain characters that were dictated to the writers.

yea I know he didn't write it. But with Ratner, he was unprepared and judging by his interviews and behind the scenes stuff, he didn't know jack **** about X-men other then the fact that he knew OF them.

I know Ratner isnt the sole blame but he is the scapegoat and its just easier to blame one person. t:

 

[jrd550]

Well given what we got, I would have preferred to have seen Vaughn's version... it would have been more serious and less cheese...

 

[The Batman]

I'd like to have seen what Vaughn would have done with an X-movie. He was a fool to walk out like that.

Yeah....damn him for not wanting to make a rushed piece of crap that wouldve disappointed him and people watching the movies....

If Vaughn's a fool, i wish fox/ratner/kinberg/penn were as foolish as him too.

 

[Angamb]

Well given what we got, I would have preferred to have seen Vaughn's version... it would have been more serious and less cheese...

Agreed. Right now, I would have preffered Vaughn. I think his version would have been better.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Only Bryan Singer could have seamlessly completed the story arcs he set up in X1 and X2.

As soon as you have other creative people - new writers and a director - you are going to get a different vision and different ideas.

Just imagine if JK Rowling handed over her last Potter book to Jackie Collins to finish off!

What we got with X3 was another creative team's ideas added to the mix, their interpretations of what needed finishing off and how it needed to be finished, and their ideas of what needed changing.

Sorry, but thats bull****, just ****ing watch X1 and X2 a bunch of times and you could easily have made a movie that tied up all of the loose ends.

Hell I could have a written an X3 that would have been closer to the first 2 movies i have seen them that many times.

 

[X-Maniac]

Sorry, but thats bull****, just ****ing watch X1 and X2 a bunch of times and you could easily have made a movie that tied up all of the loose ends.

Hell I could have a written an X3 that would have been closer to the first 2 movies i have seen them that many times.

The point is that the movie had a different set of creative people involved. And that immediately creates a difference - the lighting, cinematography, direction, writing, etc, were all different. And it's not just about writing something (Penn said they did write in the firebird effects) - it's also about budget, politics, studio demands (those paying for the movie often want to have a say in it), actor availability... The writing is only the starting point.

However, I agree that there were areas in which the film did not gel with what had been presented before, and areas which were not good pieces of film-making. The blame goes to lots of people for those deficiencies. Only Bryan Singer would have matched X3 in perfectly to X1 and X2 because he would have known exactly what to do next and how to do it, and how to present it in a similar tone to what had been done before.

I bet if you gave a piece of creative work to someone else to finish, the result would not be exactly what you intended and it would not be indistinguishable from your own style.

 

[Seen]

Vaughn was the one in charge of the script that we ended up getting. I doubt he would have made any significant changes.

All changes Ratner could have altered, but didn't. In fact, he altered some things that I felt acted as a detriment to the story, including changing the place of the finale from Washington, D.C. to San Fransisco, having Rogue cured, repositioning the Alcatraz sequence from the second act to the third, etc etc. Not to mention the stupid epilogue at the end credits which totally defeats the emotional impact Xavier's death had in the film.

If anything, it was absolutley ridiculous things such as Wolverine carrying Leech around in a backback, that were REMOVED after Vaughn left!

Stuff like that have every chance to be removed or altered furthermore during the scriptwriting process, which Vaughn "left" in the middle of.

Vaughn is a very gifted director, Layer Cake being a testament to this. Stardust is getting very good, promising reviews. I would have LOVED for him to direct X3, but alas, old news. He's directing Thor now, which should be very interesting. Vaughn is selecting his projects wisely, going from a gritty gangster film to a lavish fantasy pic to a comic-book film. Talk about versatility, if anyone has it, Vaughn does.

 

[Ryudoz]

With Vaughn, we might have even had a firebird.

/sigh

 

[flavio_lebeau]

With Vaughn, we might have even had a firebird.

/sigh

I don't think so. The lack of firebird was due to time constraints. It was in every sketch and concept design for the Phoenix.

 

[the a1ant]

I saw Vaughn's 'Stardust' today - it was an ok movie, but it didn't give me faith that he would've made a better X3. Visually, it might've been more interesting, but the biggest problem for that film [X3] was the script and Fox's demands, imo. I don't think Vaughn's X3 would have the firebird, because I see no reason why Ratner wouldn't want it. I think either Fox demanded change or there just wasn't enough time to do the effect.

 

[Seen]

Ratner said on the DVD commentary that he wanted to pertain to Singer's realism, which is why the firebird wasn't included.

 

[BMM]

^ Which doesn't make much sense because there were Phoenix effects throughout all of X2.

A main reason for the completely different interpretation of Phoenix is that Fox told visual effects supervisor, John Bruno, to just come up with the effects needed and how they relate to the characters...

John Bruno had conceived of the zero gravity response to the Phoenix when executives at Fox asked him to write out not only what effects would be needed and how they would be achieved, but also a back story as to how the effects related to the characters. "It was the first time a studio ever asked me to do that!" Bruno stated.

The article also discusses how The Moving Motion Picture Company worked with Bruno to develop the look of Jean Grey when the Phoenix assumes control (the black eyes, skin, and veins)... the rest is history.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Vaughn is a very gifted director, Layer Cake being a testament to this. Stardust is getting very good, promising reviews. I would have LOVED for him to direct X3, but alas, old news. He's directing Thor now, which should be very interesting. Vaughn is selecting his projects wisely, going from a gritty gangster film to a lavish fantasy pic to a comic-book film. Talk about versatility, if anyone has it, Vaughn does.

You would have loved to see him direct, and I am thanking everything that is holy that he left.

Obviously, we don't know everything that he was going to do, because he left before he could do them, and Ratner came in and did things his way. While there were things wrong with the X-Men: The Last Stand we -did- get, I don't blame Ratner for much. A script was already written out before he even came on, and by the time he did come on, there wasn't a whole lot of time for drastic changes. And the biggest problems that I have with the film were all still evident in the script that was written under Vaughn's supervision.

Aside from what we -did- get, the ideas of his that I have seen were absolutley ridiculous.

Wolverine running around Alcatraz (or Washington D.C., wherever the final battle was to be held) carrying Leech in a backback is a completely ridiculous idea that would have me rolling my eyes in the movie theatre at it's absurdity.

His Danger Room plans were ever more absurd - holograms that actually caused physical harm to the mutants - we had storyboards of Kitty Pryde and Iceman having their skin burned right off, and being nothing more than skeletons. Okay, that's understandable, it is called the DANGER Room afterall...

But after the simulation ends, Icemand and Kitty Pryde are magically okay?!

That's absolutley ridiculous.

You can make holograms, and they either -do- physical damage, or they don't. But you don't actually burn off someone's skin (which is no longer a hologram, it is real life damage inflicted upon someone) and then they are okay because you turned off the program.

Those 2 elements, along with Vaughn's constant bashing of Singer's films, and obvious desire to take the films in a new direction away from what Singer established, make me believe that he was the worst possible choice for the film. Fox realized this, canned his ass, they made up the excuse of him stepping down to be with his family, and Ratner was really all that was left.

Ratner definatley wasn't the best choice for the film. But Vaughn was the absolute bottom of the barrel choice. X-Men: The Last Stand could not have possibly been any worse than what Matthew Vaughn would have given us.

There are definate flaws in Ratner's film... but at least he made an attempt to keep it in line with Bryan's films. And many of the errors of the story weren't even -his- fault, but rather the fault of the team before him (supervised by Matthew Vaughn) and by the time he came on board, there was not enough time to scrap the entire script and start over (which quite frankly, is what would have needed to have been done, because the entire script unfortunatley was based around said errors, such as Cyclops death and non-participation in this film, Xavier's death, and lack of an internal struggle that Jean faced).

Moving the finale from Washington to Alcatraz is hardly any kind of error or mistake.

 

[JP]

Those 2 elements, along with Vaughn's constant bashing of Singer's films, and obvious desire to take the films in a new direction away from what Singer established, make me believe that he was the worst possible choice for the film. Fox realized this, canned his ass, they made up the excuse of him stepping down to be with his family, and Ratner was really all that was left.

This has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said.

 

[X-Maniac]

^ Which doesn't make much sense because there were Phoenix effects throughout all of X2.

A main reason for the completely different interpretation of Phoenix is that Fox told visual effects supervisor, John Bruno, to just come up with the effects needed and how they relate to the characters...



The article also discusses how The Moving Motion Picture Company worked with Bruno to develop the look of Jean Grey when the Phoenix assumes control (the black eyes, skin, and veins)... the rest is history.

Yes... even though the script contained Phoenix effects (at her emergence at the lake and when she arrives at SF at the end), Adrien van Vierson's storyboards www.adrienvanviersen.com/storyboards/deleted-scenes.html show a firebird lighting up in SF, and the DVD animatics show a firebird rising from Jean when she dies at the end.

Which means they either didn't have time, didn't have the budget or Ratner didn't like the idea.

I'd have liked to have seen her create a firebird from energy supplied by Storm's lightning and Cyclops's blasts during a showdown just before the Wolverine scene where he stabs her. It would make sense then that she would have the visible energy to shape into something and that she would create it as a way of showing her power and mocking them with it.

But... I've never seen a movie critic blast the movie because of the lack of a firebird, and have never heard a non-comicbook reader who saw the movie going on about it. One of my friends remembered the energy form under the water at the end of X2 and correlated it with the huge display of bright light when she emerged from the water in X3, believing all that energy formed a burst of light and then dispersed.

I'd have liked to have seen the SF destruction sequence -- even if used as 'visions of horror' projected into ne of the X-Men's minds. Perhaps put into Wolverine's mind as he approached her, or in Xavier's mind as they fought, showing the dark future that was ahead.

And it was pretty much a no-brainer that there should have been a firebird form somewhere, at some point... most logically when she emerged from the water... but it would also have been nice to see it at the battle at her parents' house (similar to when the house was destroyed in the battle with Emma Frost in the comics) and at the final battle. But it may be that it was considered to be a comicbook visual like the other artist representations of mutant powers - the pink flashes of telekinesis coming out of Jean's head, Magneto's wavy lines, etc - rather than a logical inclusion in a movie.

 

[04nbod]

yea I know he didn't write it. But with Ratner, he was unprepared and judging by his interviews and behind the scenes stuff, he didn't know jack **** about X-men other then the fact that he knew OF them.

I know Ratner isnt the sole blame but he is the scapegoat and its just easier to blame one person. t:

Remember they were bragging that they had massive fans as writers. The script was doomed when people like ratner and the studio started telling them what to do despite not knowing what they were talking about. Plus the interviews later about how the writers knew that the movie would not be well recieved by fans.

 

[Theweepeople]

Plus the interviews later about how the writers knew that the movie would not be well recieved by fans.

Really. I haven't heard of these interviews but, if they are then I have even less respect for Simon Kinberg for spent 6 months on thexverse.com telling fans that X3 would be one of the greatest movies ever. I remember him saying that the action scenes in X3 are comparable to Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, Return of the King, and Star Wars:The Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Theweepeople]

Fox realized this, canned his ass, they made up the excuse of him stepping down to be with his family, and Ratner was really all that was left.

What are you talking about? There's no evidence that Vaughn left because Fox terminated his contract. Laura Donner confirmed that it was Vaughn's decision to leave. Furthermore, it made little sense for Fox to fire Matthew Vaughn because as a result of him leaving Fox lost weeks of preparation work on multiple sets and were forced to increase the budget by 60million to make barely make the release date. If you have evidence that supports your outrageous claim then provide the source.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

What are you talking about? There's no evidence that Vaughn left because Fox terminated his contract. Laura Donner confirmed that it was Vaughn's decision to leave. Furthermore, it made little sense for Fox to fire Matthew Vaughn because as a result of him leaving Fox lost weeks of preparation work on multiple sets and were forced to increase the budget by 60million to make barely make the release date. If you have evidence that supports your outrageous claim then provide the source.

He doesn't have evidence, he just made the claim in order to make himself feel better. As you said with production already in such a sad state of affairs it wouldn't make sense for Fox to fire Vaughn.

But if deluding himself makes himself feel better then so be it. It's very interesting to see how the forum has kind of died down, only for it to be alive once more with some news coming out. I was wondering when we were going to hear Vaughn's explanation as to why he left.

Granted he's not the first choice nor would he be the last choice I'd pick for an X-Men film. However, he probably would've done it a lot better than Ratner did in my opinion.

 

[X-Maniac]

I was wondering when we were going to hear Vaughn's explanation as to why he left. Granted he's not the first choice nor would he be the last choice I'd pick for an X-Men film. However, he probably would've done it a lot better than Ratner did in my opinion.

He would quite possibly have made a better and less cheesy / pop-culture film, BUT it would also have been a different style to the previous two and it would also have deviated from Singer's vision.

Remember Vaughn said he wanted to make Magneto more evil (he said the villains were too 'moustache-twirling' in Singer's movies).... which is sort of what we got, in that Magneto seemed to be a full-fledged callous terrorist who discarded Mystique in order to press on with his main cause. He also said the only thing better about Storm in X2 (compared with X1) was her haircut and he wanted to change her as well.

In Vaughn's story Angel's dad was an evil corporate tycoon who developed the cure and it was being tested on mutants at the prison, including Mystique. I believe Magneto performed a mercy killing on Mystique when she was cured. She was in the form of Wolverine at the time of being cured, as various storyboards showed...this was to create suspense at the apparent notion that Wolverine was getting cured.

I think we'd have been given a better movie (in terms of no cheese and more craft) but it would still have stood apart from the style of the previous two. While Ratner spoke in respectful terms for Singer, Vaughn did not, so i think the movie would still have been a very different animal to the previous two...

I don't think Vaughn did himself many favours in the industry for walking away like that.

But I'm interested to see how he does with Thor.

 

[Neto Magnus]

Obviously, we don't know everything that he was going to do, because he left before he could do them, and Ratner came in and did things his way. While there were things wrong with the X-Men: The Last Stand we -did- get, I don't blame Ratner for much. A script was already written out before he even came on, and by the time he did come on, there wasn't a whole lot of time for drastic changes. And the biggest problems that I have with the film were all still evident in the script that was written under Vaughn's supervision.

It's been said over and over again from the writers that they had no choice for certain changes such as Cyclops' death and so on. It was Fox who demanded changes. It doesnt mean that it was Vaughn's ideas. I mean, I assume thats the real reason he left.

Aside from what we -did- get, the ideas of his that I have seen were absolutley ridiculous.

Wolverine running around Alcatraz (or Washington D.C., wherever the final battle was to be held) carrying Leech in a backback is a completely ridiculous idea that would have me rolling my eyes in the movie theatre at it's absurdity.

Do you have any proof of this? Cuz you're the only one talking about this. I'm really hoping you made that up.

His Danger Room plans were ever more absurd - holograms that actually caused physical harm to the mutants - we had storyboards of Kitty Pryde and Iceman having their skin burned right off, and being nothing more than skeletons. Okay, that's understandable, it is called the DANGER Room afterall...

But after the simulation ends, Icemand and Kitty Pryde are magically okay?!

That's absolutley ridiculous.

You can make holograms, and they either -do- physical damage, or they don't. But you don't actually burn off someone's skin (which is no longer a hologram, it is real life damage inflicted upon someone) and then they are okay because you turned off the program.

Storyboards are made to give the crew an idea of how to do the scene. It doesn't mean that they were going to do it exactly like that. Things always change from storyboard to filming.

I agree that the DR scene didnt quite make sense. But theres no indication that it causes physical harm. It just made it appear that they were burnt so that they can learn not to get toasted in real life.

Those 2 elements, along with Vaughn's constant bashing of Singer's films, and obvious desire to take the films in a new direction away from what Singer established, make me believe that he was the worst possible choice for the film. Fox realized this, canned his ass, they made up the excuse of him stepping down to be with his family, and Ratner was really all that was left.

You're going to fault Vaughn just on two things that may or may not have even made it to final shooting? Vaughn never indicated that he wanted to take X3 in a new direction. He said countless times that he watched X1 and X2 for inspiration and he wanted to bring a darker tone to the film.

I think its safe to say now that Vaughn left because Fox wouldn't let him do X3 the way he wanted. Fox probably didn't even try to negotiate. They then only chose Ratner cuz he wasn't working and was available at short notice.

Ratner definatley wasn't the best choice for the film. But Vaughn was the absolute bottom of the barrel choice. X-Men: The Last Stand could not have possibly been any worse than what Matthew Vaughn would have given us.

There are definate flaws in Ratner's film... but at least he made an attempt to keep it in line with Bryan's films. And many of the errors of the story weren't even -his- fault, but rather the fault of the team before him (supervised by Matthew Vaughn) and by the time he came on board, there was not enough time to scrap the entire script and start over (which quite frankly, is what would have needed to have been done, because the entire script unfortunatley was based around said errors, such as Cyclops death and non-participation in this film, Xavier's death, and lack of an internal struggle that Jean faced).

Moving the finale from Washington to Alcatraz is hardly any kind of error or mistake.

Again, that doesn't mean that Vaughn wanted the script to go down that way. I really don't get all this pro-Ratner anti-Vaughn from you. The main problem we should be focused on is FOX. I mean, we all agree that TLS had faults but that doesnt mean Vaughn should get the blame. Nor Ratner for that matter. But you have to realize that out of both of them, Vaughn actually knows how to make a quality film.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

But you have to realize that out of both of them, Vaughn actually knows how to make a quality film.

But... I think Ratner DID make a quality film...

And I think Ratner has made a FEW quality films.

Of course, the kinds of movies that he makes are not accepted in the least bit around here... but I don't see why he gets bashed on so much. As if movies like Rush Hour are the epitome of evil, or something...

What's wrong with movies where you can just enjoy yourself and have fun?

And for someone coming from that background, I still believe he did a pretty damned good job with X-Men: The Last Stand. It might not be what we all wanted, but I still think it's damned good.