Matt's Thread of Racing...

[NewYorkSpider]

Cool to see Mark Martin back in victory lane. 3rd oldest driver to win a Sprint Cup race.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Matt Kenseth just had a scary crash at Talladega.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I thought Kenseth's crash was scary yesterday. Edwards car went up in the catchfence. Thank god he and the fans are ok.

 

[El_Citrus]

That crash was damn scary, but Brad did nothing wrong. Good thing Carl's okay, a few years earlier and he would have been in the hospital. Wow.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Very good race and cool finish

 

[NewYorkSpider]

That crash was damn scary, but Brad did nothing wrong. Good thing Carl's okay, a few years earlier and he would have been in the hospital. Wow.

Your absolutely right. Brad did nothing wrong in this situation. I think Nascar needs to look at the "below the yellow line" rule. If Brad was allowed to pass him under the line on the final lap, that incident wouldn't have happened. It's pretty ironic that NASCAR want to make races safer. Look what happened.


Eight fans injured during that wreck.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4103113


This is how the race should've ended.

[YT]RhYzMtJLb8g[/YT]

Regan Smith went under the yellow line to not cause an accident. Instead, NASCAR stripped him of the win and gave it Stewart. If Regan had done the same thing as Kesalowski(sp?), Stewart would've been in the catchfence or caused a huge wreck.

 

[El_Citrus]

Your absolutely right. Brad did nothing wrong in this situation. I think Nascar needs to look at the "below the yellow line" rule. If Brad was allowed to pass him under the line on the final lap, that incident wouldn't have happened. It's pretty ironic that NASCAR want to make races safer. Look what happened.


Eight fans injured during that wreck.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4103113


This is how the race should've ended.



Regan Smith went under the yellow line to not cause an accident. Instead, NASCAR stripped him of the win and gave it Stewart. If Regan had done the same thing as Kesalowski(sp?), Stewart would've been in the catchfence or caused a huge wreck.

I think that it could get looked at due to people actualy being hurt by this rule. I get that they don't want people passing outside of the designated track since that could cause problems as well.

I would say that if your entire car goes below the yellow line, meaning that the cameras can see the yellow line from the right side of your car, and you make a pass, then it should be considered a penalty unless you're forced down there, that way, Kesolowski could have gone below the line with most of his car, made the pass safely and won the race.

If they had thought about it ahead of time, they could have made Talladega really unique if they put the grandstand on the inside of the tri oval, blocked off by the fence with the infield grass as a barrier as well, while moving pit road to the backstretch. The people in the tri oval would be much safer since the incline there is how crashes like Edward's happens (It would take a freakish fluke for a car to elevate like that into the fence on the flat back stretch, much much less likely than the front stretch). I may be just rambling, but I think a complete overhaul in how tracks are designed as far as fan placement would greatly improve things and provide a bit of variety and individuality to each track. [/ramble]

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I think that it could get looked at due to people actualy being hurt by this rule. I get that they don't want people passing outside of the designated track since that could cause problems as well.

There's no reason why NASCAR can't let them pass below the yellow line on the final lap. I think it would've saved an accident, as well as fans getting injured. I was a pretty big Dale Earnhardt fan. After his death in 01', I stopped rooting for just one driver, and watched NASCAR just for the fun of it. I then became a pretty big Edwards fan. I thought it was happening all over again.

I would say that if your entire car goes below the yellow line, meaning that the cameras can see the yellow line from the right side of your car, and you make a pass, then it should be considered a penalty unless you're forced down there, that way, Kesolowski could have gone below the line with most of his car, made the pass safely and won the race.

I like this rule. It should just be for the final lap, though. Drivers shouldn't be that aggresive untill 20 to go.

If they had thought about it ahead of time, they could have made Talladega really unique if they put the grandstand on the inside of the tri oval, blocked off by the fence with the infield grass as a barrier as well, while moving pit road to the backstretch. The people in the tri oval would be much safer since the incline there is how crashes like Edward's happens (It would take a freakish fluke for a car to elevate like that into the fence on the flat back stretch, much much less likely than the front stretch). I may be just rambling, but I think a complete overhaul in how tracks are designed as far as fan placement would greatly improve things and provide a bit of variety and individuality to each track. [/ramble]

Edwards wouldn't have gone in the catchfence if it wasn't for Ryan Newman. Newman launced Edwards in the air more. If Newman wasn't there, then Edwards would've simply done this.

[YT]4-BN_wGwhgU[/YT]

 

[El_Citrus]

There's no reason why NASCAR can't let them pass below the yellow line on the final lap. I think it would've saved an accident, as well as fans getting injured. I was a pretty big Dale Earnhardt fan. After his death in 01', I stopped rooting for just one driver, and watched NASCAR just for the fun of it. I then became a pretty big Edwards fan. I thought it was happening all over again.

I am the same way! I didn't latch onto Jr., and tend to lean towards Stewart more nowadays but am not an outright fan of any particular driver except maybe Mark Martin.

I like this rule. It should just be for the final lap, though. Drivers shouldn't be that aggresive untill 20 to go.

They shouldn't be, but they will be for most of the race. A big wreck like that can happen at anytime, not just the last lap. The rule should apply to the entire race.

Edwards wouldn't have gone in the catchfence if it wasn't for Ryan Newman. Newman launced Edwards in the air more. If Newman wasn't there, then Edwards would've simply done this.

True, it's a rare set of circumstances that will most likely be solved with a tougher fence, but I'm just trying to think outsideof the box to keep fans safe and happy.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I am the same way! I didn't latch onto Jr., and tend to lean towards Stewart more nowadays but am not an outright fan of any particular driver except maybe Mark Martin.

I like Dale Jr., but he's extremely overrated. JR fans can't blame the equipment he's in now. He won a race last season at Michigan, but it was on fuel milege. I always root for the underdogs at races or drivers that haven't won in a long time. The last few weeks have been pretty exciting for me. I'm happy Brad got the win today.

They shouldn't be, but they will be for most of the race. A big wreck like that can happen at anytime, not just the last lap. The rule should apply to the entire race.

Some drivers are aggresive the first 10 laps of the race. Just look what happend 7 laps into this race. If you make the rule for the entire race, you'll see far more accidents IMO. I honestly don't know why they're aggresive that early. The race is 188 laps, not 7.

True, it's a rare set of circumstances that will most likely be solved with a tougher fence, but I'm just trying to think outsideof the box to keep fans safe and happy.

There have been 2 other accidents like Edwards.(Bobby Allison and Geoff Bodine) The fences have done their job. I really don't see them changing anything in the future as far as where the grandstand's are. Newman said in his post-race interview on NASCAR.com that they need to figure out how to keep the cars on the ground. It's gonna take a lot to keep at 3500lb stock car on the ground going 190MPH. The restrictor plates and roof flaps are as close as they're going to get.

 

[El_Citrus]

Some drivers are aggresive the first 10 laps of the race. Just look what happend 7 laps into this race. If you make the rule for the entire race, you'll see far more accidents IMO. I honestly don't know why they're aggresive that early. The race is 188 laps, not 7.

Aggressive driving is what caused Edwards' wreck in the first palce. I understand that guys will be using the yellow line more often, but you can't just draw the line at the final lap for this rule since big wrecks are caused during the final ten and twenty laps as well. The rule should be spread across the entire race that if there is indisputable evidence that your entire car is below the yellow line without provocation and you make a pass, you will be penalized.

There have been 2 other accidents like Edwards.(Bobby Allison and Geoff Bodine) The fences have done their job. I really don't see them changing anything in the future as far as where the grandstand's are. Newman said in his post-race interview on NASCAR.com that they need to figure out how to keep the cars on the ground. It's gonna take a lot to keep at 3500lb stock car on the ground going 190MPH. The restrictor plates and roof flaps are as close as they're going to get.

Very true. Just me being imaginative again. They do need to work on breaking up the big packs though. Something like a smaller engine or something that reduces the horsepower while still allowing the acceleration that the restrictor plate takes away and keeps these guys bunched up.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Aggressive driving is what caused Edwards' wreck in the first palce. I understand that guys will be using the yellow line more often, but you can't just draw the line at the final lap for this rule since big wrecks are caused during the final ten and twenty laps as well. The rule should be spread across the entire race that if there is indisputable evidence that your entire car is below the yellow line without provocation and you make a pass, you will be penalized.

Edwards wasn't being that aggressive. He was simply trying to get back down in front of Keselowski. He stated in his interview that he didn't think he was there yet. Brad wasn't being aggressive either. He pushed Edwards and then went down low. I still disagree with you about having it for the whole race. They'd be having wrecks just like the Dale Jr./Vickers incident at the Daytona 500 this year. Most drivers would've tried to pass Carl up high. Others simply would've stayed in line and took second. Brad, in this instance, had nothing to lose. He's a rookie and will do anything to win.


This is the view from the stands in Edwards' wreck. This would freak me out. Make sure your volume is down. It's a little loud

[YT]8ypOc6_3yJo[/YT]

 

[Alex The Great]

Talladega is my faveiorate track. Man, I got to see a race there, but note to self. Don't get front row seats! 1 of the fans actually got a broken jaw!

Now it's time for some me love.

1. Hats off to the folks at 'Dega for building a strong fence. I thought that fence was going to buckle and kill people. Wow.

2. Kudos to Nascar, If this crasha had happened a few years ago, people, would have been killed. The old car was a missle when in the air....

3. To Brad, he raced well. He wasn't agressive at all. Carl went down to block but Brads fender was there. It was an accident.

4. To Carl. I'm glad he didn't go storming off to chat with Brad. He showed Class

 

[Immortalfire]

I saw the replay of the crash this morning..a total miracle that the car didn't break through the fence

 

[Marx]

Very good race and cool finish

I'm still trying to figure out how that car didn't go THROUGH the fence! Yikes...

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I saw the replay of the crash this morning..a total miracle that the car didn't break through the fence

I'm still trying to figure out how that car didn't go THROUGH the fence! Yikes...

It wouldn't have gone through. The fences NASCAR has built have been pretty safe. That accident is nothing compared to Geoff Bodine's crash at Daytona.

[YT]B0mjDCnwzi8[/YT]

 

[El_Citrus]

See below....Damn double post.

 

[El_Citrus]

Edwards wasn't being that aggressive. He was simply trying to get back down in front of Keselowski. He stated in his interview that he didn't think he was there yet. Brad wasn't being aggressive either. He pushed Edwards and then went down low. I still disagree with you about having it for the whole race. They'd be having wrecks just like the Dale Jr./Vickers incident at the Daytona 500 this year. Most drivers would've tried to pass Carl up high. Others simply would've stayed in line and took second. Brad, in this instance, had nothing to lose. He's a rookie and will do anything to win.

The Jr/Vickers wreck was more about Jr being frustrated and getting pissed at being blocked like that than a yellow line issue. He wasn't trying to pass, he was blocked down there and did what Regan Smith did at Dega and what Kesolowski would have done if a modified rule was in place. Drivers are always going to block during the race, it jsut increases during the waning laps, so the rule should apply to the whole race. Maybe tweak it to not penalize a driver if he's forced down.

The bigger issue, to me, should be slowing these cars down in some way that also seperates pack. Nascar will likely only introduce a bigger restrictor plate which is a temporary solution but not the right one. I still think a smaller engine should be looked into, where it can only crank enough horsepower to get the cars up to about 200 mph max while allowing the freedom of not losing your momentum from losing the draft.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Watch the Vickers/Dale Jr. incident again. JR was clearly trying to pass. He then came back over and timed it wrong.

They can't go with a bigger restrictor plate. That would make them go faster. Dale Jarret said they're more than likely gonna go with a smaller restrictor plate. As for the fans, they should move them back much farther than where they're at.

Also, if you watch the Edwards wreck again, Newman would have won the race if he wasn't hi. He had A LOT of momentum.

 

[El_Citrus]

Watch the Vickers/Dale Jr. incident again. JR was clearly trying to pass. He then came back over and timed it wrong.

Exactly. He got blocked down below the line when he went to pass and got frustrated and made it back onto the track too early. He wasn't trying to intentionally go below the yellow line to pass, which is why I think the block rule should be changed, where if you are forced down below the yellow line and make a pass during the race, you won't be penalized, and the blocker could get a warning or worse for aggressive driving. It would be a case by case basis, but it would have still allowed Kesolowski to make the pass and Edwards to not destroy the fence.

They can't go with a bigger restrictor plate. That would make them go faster. Dale Jarret said they're more than likely gonna go with a smaller restrictor plate. As for the fans, they should move them back much farther than where they're at.

I meant larger in terms of mass of the plate, same thing as Jarret saying smaller referring to the size of the holes. Slowing the cars down further isn't going to solve this, but it's all that Nascar can do this year. I'd like to see them heavily consider something more drastic like a smaller engine in order to get rid of the restrictor plate and break up the pack. I love watching ten rows three wide and seeing a guy work through the pack, but it's just not good for the drivers who get caught up in the big one.

The fans do need moved back from the track and increase the mesh in the fence. I'm not really sure what else they could do for safety.

Also, if you watch the Edwards wreck again, Newman would have won the race if he wasn't hi. He had A LOT of momentum.

He might have beat out Kesolowski, but the momentum I'm talking about is if you let off the gas or lose the draft because of the restrictor plate. Finding a way to eliminate the plate while keeping the speeds down would allow the drivers more freedom around the track and prevent big packs and huge wrecks.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Exactly. He got blocked down below the line when he went to pass and got frustrated and made it back onto the track too early. He wasn't trying to intentionally go below the yellow line to pass, which is why I think the block rule should be changed, where if you are forced down below the yellow line and make a pass during the race, you won't be penalized, and the blocker could get a warning or worse for aggressive driving. It would be a case by case basis, but it would have still allowed Kesolowski to make the pass and Edwards to not destroy the fence.

I agree. They need harsher penalties. But it's not gonna save a huge accident from happening IMO. In this case, Vickers should have been penalizied for aggresive driving. The penalty wouldn't have taken affect since he was out of the race. I think docking points for something like this needs to be looked at.

Chad Knaus wants for Talladega and Daytona to adopt a rule where you can only fill your car up with gas during the green flag. He said this would seperate the pack. I honestly don't think it will help much.

I meant larger in terms of mass of the plate, same thing as Jarret saying smaller referring to the size of the holes. Slowing the cars down further isn't going to solve this, but it's all that Nascar can do this year. I'd like to see them heavily consider something more drastic like a smaller engine in order to get rid of the restrictor plate and break up the pack. I love watching ten rows three wide and seeing a guy work through the pack, but it's just not good for the drivers who get caught up in the big one.

I misunderstood what you meant with the smaller ristrictor plate. Michael Waltrip said it best on Nascar Victory Lane. "Nobody said we had sign up for this. We're gonna wreck anywhere we go. If Edwards and Keselowski had done the same thing at Richmond, the same result would've happened, only Edwards wasn't gonna get airborn and into the fence."

He has a point here. The only concern I have right now is the fans and their saftey. The drivers are a safe as they'll ever be for awhile.

The fans do need moved back from the track and increase the mesh in the fence. I'm not really sure what else they could do for safety.

We agree. I think they could put up a plexiglass in front of them. They would still be able to see the race with no problems. I'm not sure how that would work out.

He might have beat out Kesolowski, but the momentum I'm talking about is if you let off the gas or lose the draft because of the restrictor plate. Finding a way to eliminate the plate while keeping the speeds down would allow the drivers more freedom around the track and prevent big packs and huge wrecks.

I wasn't arguing about the restrictor plates here. It was just simply a "what if" scenerio.

 

[El_Citrus]

I agree. They need harsher penalties. But it's not gonna save a huge accident from happening IMO. In this case, Vickers should have been penalizied for aggresive driving. The penalty wouldn't have taken affect since he was out of the race. I think docking points for something like this needs to be looked at.

Chad Knaus wants for Talladega and Daytona to adopt a rule where you can only fill your car up with gas during the green flag. He said this would seperate the pack. I honestly don't think it will help much.

That might help, but in the end, they'll all pit mostly together to stay keep a pack of cars together for the draft, but as we saw, you really only need two.

I misunderstood what you meant with the smaller ristrictor plate. Michael Waltrip said it best on Nascar Victory Lane. "Nobody said we had sign up for this. We're gonna wreck anywhere we go. If Edwards and Keselowski had done the same thing at Richmond, the same result would've happened, only Edwards wasn't gonna get airborn and into the fence."

He has a point here. The only concern I have right now is the fans and their saftey. The drivers are a safe as they'll ever be for awhile.

While that's true, nowhere else do more cars get torn up in one fell swoop (or three in this case) than at Talladega and Daytona. You practically have a 50/50 chance of makin git through the wrecks and it should be that way to have so many cars get taken out with one wreck. Yeah, there are tons of wrecks at other tracks, but none that cause the devastation that a simple restrictor plate does. Nascar isn't going to change it because it's the only safe method at the moment.

We agree. I think they could put up a plexiglass in front of them. They would still be able to see the race with no problems. I'm not sure how that would work out.

I've thought of this as well. I've tried wrapping my head around some kind of plexiglass ceiling that could cover the race track somehow in case of rain but nothing could really work. I think a plexiglass wall behind the mesh would work. Move the fans back and give the fence some room between it and the plexiglass.

I wasn't arguing about the restrictor plates here. It was just simply a "what if" scenerio.

Yeah, well too bad......... (I was on a roll.)

 

[NewYorkSpider]

That might help, but in the end, they'll all pit mostly together to stay keep a pack of cars together for the draft, but as we saw, you really only need two.

There's really no way to fix aggressive driving. I think the only way to tone it down is to dock points or park the car for the rest of the race.

While that's true, nowhere else do more cars get torn up in one fell swoop (or three in this case) than at Talladega and Daytona. You practically have a 50/50 chance of makin git through the wrecks and it should be that way to have so many cars get taken out with one wreck. Yeah, there are tons of wrecks at other tracks, but none that cause the devastation that a simple restrictor plate does. Nascar isn't going to change it because it's the only safe method at the moment.

Not true.







While it doesn't happen that often, it has happened at other race tracks. Plate racing is fine IMO. These drivers have the ability to race without getting into the big one. They've done it before. (2001 Spring Race Talladega). That's probably one of the craziest finishes I've ever seen. They were 5-6 wide.


[YT]Z2rx24HI5ys[/YT]


The more I think about it, the sadder I feel for Edwards. He stayed in the back the entire race and got wrecked on the final lap.

 

[El_Citrus]

There's really no way to fix aggressive driving. I think the only way to tone it down is to dock points or park the car for the rest of the race.

I agree.

Not true.







While it doesn't happen that often, it has happened at other race tracks. Plate racing is fine IMO. These drivers have the ability to race without getting into the big one. They've done it before. (2001 Spring Race Talladega). That's probably one of the craziest finishes I've ever seen. They were 5-6 wide.





The more I think about it, the sadder I feel for Edwards. He stayed in the back the entire race and got wrecked on the final lap.

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen at other tracks, but wit hplate racing, the smallest mistake is magnified immensely. There are times where the drivers are lucky and make it through without a big one which makes for damn exciting racing, but that doesn't change the odds that huge wrecks are much more likely to happen at Dega and Daytona. There's probably nothing they can really do to seperate the packs AND keep the speeds low at the same time, but I wish they would look into any alternatives.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

This is great article by Duane Cross.

Talladega


And Jimmie Johnson is a ****ing sissy. If he honestly thinks they're going fast, he needs to watch the Indy 500.


Terry Blount and I agree on the Yellow Line Rule

Terry_Blount