Ant-Man Michael Douglas is Hank Pym

[Chewy]

The only thing i can say is, from what i've seen lately, and from Iron Man 3.....Marvel has it's days numbered.
Disney is destroying it.
DC is not going much better (which is an understatement, Superman vs Batman has pathetic written all over it).

What baffles me is what goes through the director/producers mind when they pull crap like this?!
Let's think about it......

Fans care about good adaptations, not what character is on the big screen, so, the idea of having 101 villains/characters make no sense.
Non-fans will not care at all because they don't know the comics, they don't even know who is who.
That leaves money reasons..........and that's it.

The more characters/villains, the more toys you have to sell.
Changing white characters to black actors will put black people into theaters
And Michael Douglas will put the old geezers in the seats.....it's all about the money.

Capitalism sucks!!

This doesn't mean it will be a bad movie, that can only be seen when we have some trailer to based on, but as an adaptation.....it is already a complete and utter failure.



And before some political correct poster comes here defending this, this all is not about old actors or black actors, it's about consistency.
Golden rule, don't change thing when you have no valid reason to....or at least, think about what the repercussions it will have.

For example: Michael B Jordan as Johnny Storm is borderline pathetic. Nothing against the actor, but to change the guy to black means you need to change Sue too....unless she is not his sister anymore, which means two changes instead of one.

Good post.

 

[Human Torch]

So a fine actor like MBJ - who happens to be black - playing Johnny Storm is the equivalent of a 4ft albino with a peg leg playing Aquaman?

Both have about as much in common with their comic counterpart.

Human Torch, Im sorry, but you are either a troll or an incredibly "inane" person. (Theres another possibility, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that one). But thanks for being honest. Just don't pretend to be surprised when your ridiculed for statements like this.

Well,thanks for proving me right.Rather than try to defend the indefensible, you go straight for the "Troll" label.Good show.

And Id consider brushing up on your communcation/writing skills. There are many ways to be persuasive, to argue even an unpopular point of view. Your "technique" isnt one of them. Thanks for playing though.

Making a statement isn't "technique" so far as I'm aware.You might want to use apostrophes in the appropriate place,the next time you have the urge to give a writing critique.

 

[Suzanne78]

Question: how do you ignore posts?ASKING FOR A FRIEND

I think IH's post can best be summed up by it's his opinion. Period. Full stop.

And as much as I disagree with those opinions, I'll just say that I think it's incredibly uncool to delineate between "real fans" and "fake fans" of these movies. So what if people only watch the movies and enjoy them? Marvel, Fox, Sony and WB/DC are trying to adapt these films with a balance of visionary creativity, commitment to the source material, and mass appeal. That's going to necessitate some deviations. While some will fail for whatever reasons, some will succeed. The lineup in Avengers, as much as we criticized it, succeeded though it deviated fairly substantially from the comics, and it had mass appeal and allowed Joss the opportunity to create the Avengers movie he envisioned. The Dark Knight series too deviated pretty substantially from the source material, but that worked all right for them. Ditto X-Men, Spider-Man, and so forth.

The stories in each of their mediums have fans, some who haven't read the books they were based on, some who have. But no matter what, they're entitled to love it, to give their money to support the movie, to buy them on DVD. And their opinions have just as much value as us comic book fans.

It just so rubs me the wrong way to qualify people's love of the material. It's all just our opinions anyway; no need to insult and belittle others over it. t:

ETA: another question - is there a thread on The Hype that we can discuss race and gender in CBMs? We nearly derailed the Black Widow thread in CA:TWS with that discussion and THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS I WANT TO SAY HERE that I shouldn't, but only because it's the Michael Douglas is Hank Pym thread.

 

[cherokeesam]

the people that are hating on this don't seem to get that they are paying Pym tribute. this is supposed to make up for him not being in the Avengers. instead he's like an elder statesman of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. he's one of the originals/predating the Iron Mans and Hulks. this version of Pym is heads and above more respectable than the comic book character.

Amen, brutha.

Hank Pym has been treated --- well, let's say less than kind by Marvel's writers in the Avengers over the past 50 years. The MCU Hank Pym that Michael Douglas portrays sounds very much like a George Clooney-type elder statesman mentor, played with wit, charm, and grace. Sounds a helluva lot better than the "omg schizophrenic wifebeater" that seems to be the prevailing view of Pym in comic-book fandom.

 

[bubbadoom]

Amen, brutha.

Hank Pym has been treated --- well, let's say less than kind by Marvel's writers in the Avengers over the past 50 years. The MCU Hank Pym that Michael Douglas portrays sounds very much like a George Clooney-type elder statesman mentor, played with wit, charm, and grace. Sounds a helluva lot better than the "omg schizophrenic wifebeater" that seems to be the prevailing view of Pym in comic-book fandom.

Never cared much for that "development" of the Pym character so I will not miss it if Marvel chooses to ignore it - although the Ultimates at least had an interesting twist on it...

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Im with ya sam.

 

[Ant-manic]

Amen, brutha.

Hank Pym has been treated --- well, let's say less than kind by Marvel's writers in the Avengers over the past 50 years. The MCU Hank Pym that Michael Douglas portrays sounds very much like a George Clooney-type elder statesman mentor, played with wit, charm, and grace. Sounds a helluva lot better than the "omg schizophrenic wifebeater" that seems to be the prevailing view of Pym in comic-book fandom.

i'm going even further. i think they are setting him up to be kind of a privatized Nick Fury. by that, i mean that this isn't so much about Rudd's Lang picking up a passed torch. i think Douglas' Pym is actually setting the directive. but i'm basing that on the likelihood of him returning for sequels. i think Jan and Scott are sort of agents of A.N.T.M.A.N. i wish that they had done this in the comic books; having Pym sort of set missions from his hive/headquarters.

 

[TeeKay]

the people that are hating on this don't seem to get that they are paying Pym tribute. this is supposed to make up for him not being in the Avengers. instead he's like an elder statesman of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. he's one of the originals/predating the Iron Mans and Hulks. this version of Pym is heads and above more respectable than the comic book character.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Well at least i can safely ignore THAT guy's posts from now on. Wow.

I did that a long long time ago. You only have to see him post once or twice before the horrible truth becomes apparent.

 

[Xeno]

Question: how do you ignore posts?ASKING FOR A FRIEND

I think IH's post can best be summed up by it's his opinion. Period. Full stop.

And as much as I disagree with those opinions, I'll just say that I think it's incredibly uncool to delineate between "real fans" and "fake fans" of these movies. So what if people only watch the movies and enjoy them? Marvel, Fox, Sony and WB/DC are trying to adapt these films with a balance of visionary creativity, commitment to the source material, and mass appeal. That's going to necessitate some deviations. While some will fail for whatever reasons, some will succeed. The lineup in Avengers, as much as we criticized it, succeeded though it deviated fairly substantially from the comics, and it had mass appeal and allowed Joss the opportunity to create the Avengers movie he envisioned. The Dark Knight series too deviated pretty substantially from the source material, but that worked all right for them. Ditto X-Men, Spider-Man, and so forth.

The stories in each of their mediums have fans, some who haven't read the books they were based on, some who have. But no matter what, they're entitled to love it, to give their money to support the movie, to buy them on DVD. And their opinions have just as much value as us comic book fans.

It just so rubs me the wrong way to qualify people's love of the material. It's all just our opinions anyway; no need to insult and belittle others over it. t:

ETA: another question - is there a thread on The Hype that we can discuss race and gender in CBMs? We nearly derailed the Black Widow thread in CA:TWS with that discussion and THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS I WANT TO SAY HERE that I shouldn't, but only because it's the Michael Douglas is Hank Pym thread.

To ignore a user's posts, go to your User CP, choose Edit Ignore List under Settings & Options. Once there just start typing the name of the member you want to ignore in the Add Member box. The system itself will offer name choices in a drop-down list as you type so you can select. Then add them and voila! You won't see any of their posts again.


The Marvel Films forum in the General Movies section would be an appropriate place to start a thread about race and gender issues in CBMs. There are so many issues to discuss with regard to the MCU's current lack of diversity, particularly in gender and sexual orientation, that a thread is very much warranted.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Alternately, click on

User Name >>> View Public Profile >>> User Lists >>> Add to Ignore List

You won't see any of their posts again.

Unless someone quotes them, but it's still worthwhile in many cases.

 

[Da-Scribe]

And before some political correct poster comes here defending this, this all is not about old actors or black actors, it's about consistency.
Golden rule, don't change thing when you have no valid reason to....or at least, think about what the repercussions it will have.

For example: Michael B Jordan as Johnny Storm is borderline pathetic. Nothing against the actor, but to change the guy to black means you need to change Sue too....unless she is not his sister anymore, which means two changes instead of one.

I respectfully disagree, sir. That isn't a golden rule. Adapting a work doesn't mean preserving every little piece of it. The idea that there needs to be any explanation for changing an adapted work beyond, "It's the directors vision." isn't really true. It's this false sense of ownership fans take over whatever property it is they love. If a filmmaker feels like a change adds something to the story they want to tell, then they should go for it. Or if they feel like casting strictly by the book hinders them from getting the best performances possible, then they shouldn't feel confined.

Also, Johnny or Sue could be adopted. But what does it matter if they're both black? It doesn't take anything away from their characters at all. I can see someone like Bruce Wayne being an issue. He's old money. That's not a characteristic associated with blacks. Captain America? No way in hell the US would've rallied behind a black guy at that time. But the Storms? I don't buy it.

I don't care that you're more of a purist. More power to you and I mean that honestly. It's a good thing. But not abiding by that view isn't inherently bad.

At any rate, back to Douglas. How many old people do you think are really gonna flock to the theater just because Douglas is in it? Older crowds make up a pretty minuscule number of moviegoers. Disney/Marvel would be better of targeting comic fans.

 

[Suzanne78]

To ignore a user's posts, go to your User CP, choose Edit Ignore List under Settings & Options. Once there just start typing the name of the member you want to ignore in the Add Member box. The system itself will offer name choices in a drop-down list as you type so you can select. Then add them and voila! You won't see any of their posts again.


The Marvel Films forum in the General Movies section would be an appropriate place to start a thread about race and gender issues in CBMs. There are so many issues to discuss with regard to the MCU's current lack of diversity, particularly in gender and sexual orientation, that a thread is very much warranted.

Whiskey, Xeno… thank you for that very helpful information. At the risk of Beetlejuicing him back into existence, I think I've ignored only one other user ever, Alexi waaaaaaay back before Avengers came out. My memory got a little rusty.

We really should start a race and gender thread in the MF forum. Because… yep. SO MUCH TO SAY!

Anywho, Michael Douglas: worst thing to happen to the MCU since Ben Kingsley or the WORST thing to ever happen to the MCU??? You pick!

 

[Da-Scribe]

Ben Kingsley was and still is one of the best additions to the MCU I've ever seen. The creative team that constructed his character arc? Not so much.

 

[Broseph44]

I did that a long long time ago. You only have to see him post once or twice before the horrible truth becomes apparent.

Who Isildur?

 

[Marvel]

I just spent the morning and afternoon vomiting because of this casting and news that they are going to absolutely screw Hank Pym. I don't care to see him in flashbacks.

I really can't convey how much this plot turn pisses me off. Marvel has lost a lot of their base with this move. Maybe that doesn't matter to them at this point?

No one wants to see elderly Hank Pym as a consultant and throwing away Hank in future phase action is just terrible. They also can't go to far in to flashbacks because they have continuity issues to worry about.

I'm trying not to let my hatred for what Marvel has done here spill in to other phase three or even phase two films but it's hard. This is simply a dumb move and it more than likely makes the overall product inferior.

They showed other studios why it's best not to screw around to a major degree with what has worked in the books for years. Then, they turn around and are doing it themselves.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

No one wants to see

And yet many people are clearly cool with it. Perhaps your personal feelings simply aren't shared by the majority?

 

[Xeno]

There seems to be a vain attempt afoot to make this into another Mandarin Twist controversy. That's not gonna fly.


Although I'm not best pleased with this news, I've resolved to see where Wright takes the film instead of judging it sight unseen. A lot worse has been done to Hank Pym in the comics over the years. This is a walk in the park compared to some of that nonsense. Pym has been portrayed as a wife-beating nutcase with delusions of adequacy for over 20 years now. Perhaps the film's portrayal of Pym can redeem him the way Robert Downey, Jr.'s Tony Stark pulled that character out of the mire after the beating he took in the Civil War era.

 

[Wade Garrett]

No one wants to see elderly Hank Pym as a consultant and throwing away Hank in future phase action is just terrible. They also can't go to far in to flashbacks because they have continuity issues to worry about.

I'm trying not to let my hatred for what Marvel has done here spill in to other phase three or even phase two films but it's hard. This is simply a dumb move and it more than likely makes the overall product inferior.

They showed other studios why it's best not to screw around to a major degree with what has worked in the books for years. Then, they turn around and are doing it themselves.

Do you speak for everyone? Marvel is still a business and like any business its time for them to take some risks. Not everyone is going to like the product but thats how you establish a fan base. You have to bet big to win big. For the most part they've played it safe with covering the material and its been rewarded with a lot of success, now its time to test a few things out. These actors won't last for ever, and I don't see them wanting to play these roles the rest of there lives, so if I was Marvel, and I had all these talented people literally flooding to be in my pictures, I would want to make it worth while to them as well as the fans. These movies aren't the greatest cinematic acheivements since Citzen Kane, but as far as building a world of cinematic superheroes hasn't Marvel earned at least a little bit of our trust?

No theyre not ripped directly from the page, but as someone who witnessed Captain America become a super soldier, Iron Man build a suit, and Thor struggle to lift that hammer, I was reminded why I loved comics in the first place. And soon Ill see a film about Dr. Pym inventing particles that shrink him down to the size of an ant, and the situation that arises if someone else got their hands on it. They're not destroying Pym, or Antman, have a little faith.

 

[Orphix]

From what I understand Wright and Fiege have always made it clear that Ant Man will be pretty much independent from the rest of the MCU. When Wright approached Marvel Studios with an idea for an Ant Man film MS weren't even really considering the property at all.

This is a convoluted way of me saying that this story was always the plan and we're lucky to be getting any type of Ant Man film. The idea of Hank Pym becoming a modern day Avenger was never an issue. When Wright put his first script together the MCU didn't exist.

And I for one am really looking forward to the 60's stuff. Nothing could be a better tribute to the Silver Age of Marvel than having an espionage, spy, thriller, cold-war, heist genre style film set in the secretive world of Ant Man. Of all Marvel's roster I consider a young Hank Pym one the best characters to portray this crazy, vibrant era of comics.

On a side note - I really can't buy the idea that the main reason they cast Michael Douglas as Hank Pym is to grab whole of the 'grey dollar'. If this was a feel good, uplifting British Drama, maybe...but for Ant Man...I don't think so.

 

[cherokeesam]

The ironic thing about the "purists" complaining about how "they're rapin' muh childhood!" is that, if anything, Wright is being as literally faithful to the source material as possible. His Hank Pym Ant-Man is *exactly* what he was in the comics --- a superhero fighting Commies in the 1960s, who falls down an anthill. His Scott Lang Ant-Man is *exactly* what he was in the comics --- a thief who stole the Ant-Man suit to steal enough money to pay for his daughter's life-saving operation, and who then gets mentored by Pym to become a full-fledged superhero.

Like Zack Snyder, Wright has proven that he's so faithful to source material in graphic novel adaptations that he uses the exact dialogue and the exact scenes from the comics, in Scott Pilgrim. I fully expect that he'll do the same in Ant-Man, and lift scenes and dialogue straight from the pages of "The Man In the Ant-Hill" and "To Steal An Ant-Man."

No, haters, Wright isn't destroying the source material here ---- he's going to be slavishly loyal to it.

 

[Suzanne78]

The ironic thing about the "purists" complaining about how "they're rapin' muh childhood!" is that, if anything, Wright is being as literally faithful to the source material as possible. His Hank Pym Ant-Man is *exactly* what he was in the comics --- a superhero fighting Commies in the 1960s, who falls down an anthill. His Scott Lang Ant-Man is *exactly* what he was in the comics --- a thief who stole the Ant-Man suit to steal enough money to pay for his daughter's life-saving operation, and who then gets mentored by Pym to become a full-fledged superhero.

Like Zack Snyder, Wright has proven that he's so faithful to source material in graphic novel adaptations that he uses the exact dialogue and the exact scenes from the comics, in Scott Pilgrim. I fully expect that he'll do the same in Ant-Man, and lift scenes and dialogue straight from the pages of "The Man In the Ant-Hill" and "To Steal An Ant-Man."

No, haters, Wright isn't destroying the source material here ---- he's going to be slavishly loyal to it.

Oh wow, yes! Thanks for bringing up Scott Pilgrim. While I know that movie's not everyone's cup of tea, you cannot say it didn't respect the source material. Wright not only used dialogue from the comics, but the overall aesthetic was extremely loyal to BOM's art. It was a very honest, straightforward adaptation, a homage to SP. (and one of my favorites!)

You can't say no one wants to see MD play Hank when there are a ton of users on here who are, at the least, curious to see Wright's vision play out.

 

[Endeavor]

the people that are hating on this don't seem to get that they are paying Pym tribute. this is supposed to make up for him not being in the Avengers...

I'm not saying the tribute sentiment behind what you said is wrong, but I think you got the Avengers thing backwards.
I think he wasn't in Avengers because of this film. Because Wright had already turned in his script and Feige was willing to wait for him to do it. It's probably the same reason why Joss wasn't able to use Wasp either.

 

[Endeavor]

To ignore a user's posts, go to your User CP, choose Edit Ignore List under Settings & Options. .

Last I tried that it didn't work for me. I asked Vartha for help and he couldn't figure it out. Might've been a glitch back then tho.

 

[Suzanne78]

Last I tried that it didn't work for me. I asked Vartha for help and he couldn't figure it out. Might've been a glitch back then tho.

I think it worked for me last night when I tried it