Microsoft Zune

[Gamma Ray]

Either way I'm waiting until the software update is released. By then there might be a new iPod and we'll know more about what capabilities Microsoft will unlock.

 

[Equint77]

When watching videos, the screen flips. I tried it out. The video was crisp and clear and I could definitely see myself using that feature quite a bit.

well that's cool.. now that I know best buy is selling it.. I'll give it a try... i'll be hard pressed to replace my ipod though....

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

i rather get an ipod.

 

[Gamma Ray]

i rather get an ipod.

Until Apple slaps a large widescreen screen on the iPod, I have no desire to purchase one one. When watching widescreen video from the iTunes store, the video is even smaller (due to the "black bars").

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

you're really putting a lot of stock in being able to see the name of the album and song you're listening to on a "widescreen"

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

Until Apple slaps a large widescreen screen on the iPod, I have no desire to purchase one one. When watching widescreen video from the iTunes store, the video is even smaller (due to the "black bars").

good for you? i still want an ipod.

 

[Gamma Ray]

you're really putting a lot of stock in being able to see the name of the album and song you're listening to on a "widescreen"

I was obviously talking about watching movies/TV... I'd probably do that more than listen to music.

 

[Mentok]

So who has the ZUNE/

I am actully quite shocked at how good it is. It totally kicks the iPod at video plus the built in FM is great.

Noting has gone wrong with it yet.

I would like it to be a bit smaller though. Its lighter thaqn the iPod and thats nice. Oh, it needs a scroll wheel too.

Apart from that its quite nice.

 

[jaguarr]

Apple holds the patent on the scroll wheel, so you'll never see it on another device.

jag

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

and Mirko holds the patent on the ass wheel.

 

[superduperhero]

Cool looking device.... anyone wanna share pros and cons?

 

[TRUE]

Apple holds the patent on the scroll wheel, so you'll never see it on another device.

jag

APPLE SCROLL WHEEL>ZUNE

 

[jaguarr]

Cool looking device.... anyone wanna share pros and cons?

Are you serious? There's 200+ comments of that in this thread already. Just read through it and you'll see.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

Avoid the loony Zune
(http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article)

November 23, 2006

BY ANDY IHNATKO

Y es, Microsoft's new Zune digital music player is just plain dreadful. I've spent a week setting this thing up and using it, and the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face.

"Avoid," is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.

The setup process stands among the very worst experiences I've ever had with digital music players. The installer app failed, and an hour into the ordeal, I found myself asking my office goldfish, "Has it really come to this? Am I really about to manually create and install a .dll file?"

But there it was, right on the Zune's tech support page. Is this really what parents want to be doing at 4 a.m. on Christmas morning?
That might not be Zune's fault. After about a year of operation, it's almost as if a Windows machine develops some sort of antibodies that prevent it from recognizing new hardware. But what's Microsoft's excuse for everything else?

Only the Zune software can sync music, video and pictures onto the device; Zune is incompatible with Windows Media Player, the familiar hub of the Windows desktop media experience.

The Zune app doesn't even have as many features as WMP. And why (for the love of God) doesn't it support podcasts? That's pure insanity.

It's incompatible with Microsoft's own PlaysForSure standard, too.

You'll have to buy all-new content from the new Zune Marketplace.

Oh, and the Zune Marketplace doesn't even take real money, proving that on the Zune Planet there's no operation so simple that it can't be turned into a confusing ordeal. The Marketplace only accepts Zune Points, with an individual track typically costing the equivalent of the iTunes-standard 99 cents.

By forcing users to buy blocks of Zune Points (with a $5 minimum), the Marketplace only has to pay one credit-card processing fee.

Zune Points will also make it easier for the Zune Marketplace to institute variable pricing. The music industry wants it desperately. The industry has been pressuring Apple to abandon its flat 99 cent pricing and start charging more for "hot" tracks.

Apple has stood firm against this, insisting that low, uniform prices keep sales high and discourage the iTunes Store's users from downloading music illegally.

I'm certain Microsoft will cave on this one. It has already given the music industry the other thing the industry has been demanding from Apple: a kickback on every player sold.

"These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it," said Doug Morris, CEO of Universal Music Group. "So it's time to get paid for it."
Well, Morris is just a big, clueless idiot, of course. Do you honestly want morons like him to have power over your music player?

Then go ahead and buy a Zune. You'll find that the Zune Planet orbits the music industry's Bizarro World, where users aren't allowed to do anything that isn't in the industry's direct interests.

Take the Zune's one unique and potentially ginchy feature: Wi-Fi. You see this printed on the box and you immediately think "Cool. So I can sync files from my desktop library without having to plug in a USB cable, right? Maybe even download new content directly to the device from the Internet?"

Typical, selfish user: How does your convenience help make money for Universal? No wonder Doug despises you.

No, the Zune's sole wireless feature is "squirting" -- I know, I know, it's Microsoft's term, not mine -- music and pictures to any other Zune device within direct Wi-Fi range. Even if the track is inherently free (like a podcast) the Zune wraps it in a DRM scheme that causes the track to self-destruct after three days or three plays, whichever comes first.

After that, it's nothing more than a bookmark for purchasing the track in the Zune Marketplace. It amounts to nothing more than free advertising.

The Zune is a complete, humiliating failure. Toshiba's Gigabeat player, for example, is far more versatile, it has none of the Zune's limitations, and Amazon sells the 30-gig model for 40 bucks less.

Throw in the Zune's tail-wagging relationship with music publishers, and it almost becomes important that you encourage people not to buy one.

The iPod owns 85 percent of the market because it deserves to. Apple consistently makes decisions that benefit the company, the users and the media publishers -- and they continue to innovatively expand the device's capabilities without sacrificing its simplicity.

Companies such as Toshiba and Sandisk (with its wonderful Nano-like Sansa e200 series) compete effectively with the iPod by asking themselves, "What are the things that users want and Apple refuses to provide?"

Microsoft's colossal blunder was to knock the user out of that question and put the music industry in its place.

Result: The Zune will be dead and gone within six months. Good riddance.

Andy Ihnatko writes on technical and computer issues for the Sun-Times.

Microsoft gets music player all wrong




My favorite line: "...the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face.". LOFL!

jag

 

[superduperhero]

Are you serious? There's 200+ comments of that in this thread already. Just read through it and you'll see.

jag

didn't look back at the old posts.... good lookin' out kiddo.

 

[superduperhero]

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

Avoid the loony Zune
(http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article)

November 23, 2006

BY ANDY IHNATKO

Y es, Microsoft's new Zune digital music player is just plain dreadful. I've spent a week setting this thing up and using it, and the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face.

"Avoid," is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.

The setup process stands among the very worst experiences I've ever had with digital music players. The installer app failed, and an hour into the ordeal, I found myself asking my office goldfish, "Has it really come to this? Am I really about to manually create and install a .dll file?"

But there it was, right on the Zune's tech support page. Is this really what parents want to be doing at 4 a.m. on Christmas morning?
That might not be Zune's fault. After about a year of operation, it's almost as if a Windows machine develops some sort of antibodies that prevent it from recognizing new hardware. But what's Microsoft's excuse for everything else?

Only the Zune software can sync music, video and pictures onto the device; Zune is incompatible with Windows Media Player, the familiar hub of the Windows desktop media experience.

The Zune app doesn't even have as many features as WMP. And why (for the love of God) doesn't it support podcasts? That's pure insanity.

It's incompatible with Microsoft's own PlaysForSure standard, too.

You'll have to buy all-new content from the new Zune Marketplace.

Oh, and the Zune Marketplace doesn't even take real money, proving that on the Zune Planet there's no operation so simple that it can't be turned into a confusing ordeal. The Marketplace only accepts Zune Points, with an individual track typically costing the equivalent of the iTunes-standard 99 cents.

By forcing users to buy blocks of Zune Points (with a $5 minimum), the Marketplace only has to pay one credit-card processing fee.

Zune Points will also make it easier for the Zune Marketplace to institute variable pricing. The music industry wants it desperately. The industry has been pressuring Apple to abandon its flat 99 cent pricing and start charging more for "hot" tracks.

Apple has stood firm against this, insisting that low, uniform prices keep sales high and discourage the iTunes Store's users from downloading music illegally.

I'm certain Microsoft will cave on this one. It has already given the music industry the other thing the industry has been demanding from Apple: a kickback on every player sold.

"These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it," said Doug Morris, CEO of Universal Music Group. "So it's time to get paid for it."
Well, Morris is just a big, clueless idiot, of course. Do you honestly want morons like him to have power over your music player?

Then go ahead and buy a Zune. You'll find that the Zune Planet orbits the music industry's Bizarro World, where users aren't allowed to do anything that isn't in the industry's direct interests.

Take the Zune's one unique and potentially ginchy feature: Wi-Fi. You see this printed on the box and you immediately think "Cool. So I can sync files from my desktop library without having to plug in a USB cable, right? Maybe even download new content directly to the device from the Internet?"

Typical, selfish user: How does your convenience help make money for Universal? No wonder Doug despises you.

No, the Zune's sole wireless feature is "squirting" -- I know, I know, it's Microsoft's term, not mine -- music and pictures to any other Zune device within direct Wi-Fi range. Even if the track is inherently free (like a podcast) the Zune wraps it in a DRM scheme that causes the track to self-destruct after three days or three plays, whichever comes first.

After that, it's nothing more than a bookmark for purchasing the track in the Zune Marketplace. It amounts to nothing more than free advertising.

The Zune is a complete, humiliating failure. Toshiba's Gigabeat player, for example, is far more versatile, it has none of the Zune's limitations, and Amazon sells the 30-gig model for 40 bucks less.

Throw in the Zune's tail-wagging relationship with music publishers, and it almost becomes important that you encourage people not to buy one.

The iPod owns 85 percent of the market because it deserves to. Apple consistently makes decisions that benefit the company, the users and the media publishers -- and they continue to innovatively expand the device's capabilities without sacrificing its simplicity.

Companies such as Toshiba and Sandisk (with its wonderful Nano-like Sansa e200 series) compete effectively with the iPod by asking themselves, "What are the things that users want and Apple refuses to provide?"

Microsoft's colossal blunder was to knock the user out of that question and put the music industry in its place.

Result: The Zune will be dead and gone within six months. Good riddance.

Andy Ihnatko writes on technical and computer issues for the Sun-Times.

Microsoft gets music player all wrong




My favorite line: "...the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face.". LOFL!

jag

hahahha nice find.... i was seriously considering it, but after reading this....well let's just say i'll spare an airbag and time....

 

[Mentok]

Apple holds the patent on the scroll wheel, so you'll never see it on another device.

jag

They hold the patant on the touch scroll wheel that they use. There are many different versions used in many different applications.

 

[Gamma Ray]

jaguarr, the patent will eventually expire, so you can't make that kind of statement.

 

[jaguarr]

jaguarr, the patent will eventually expire, so you can't make that kind of statement.

Until it expires, you will never see a scroll wheel implementation like Apple uses on any other device. And with the slew of patents Apple files every month, by the time it expires Apple will be on to the next interface innovation anyway. Feel better, now?

jag

 

[jaguarr]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/technet/10323964.html

Microsoft's No-Zune Zone
By Kevin Kelleher
TheStreet.com Contributor
11/24/2006 7:11 AM EST
URL: http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/technet/10323964.html

It's not looking good for the Zune.

Last Friday, the second-most watched clip on YouTube was about Microsoft's (MSFT) long-expected, if not necessarily anticipated, attempt to take on Apple's (AAPL) iPod digital music player. It showed a riff from late night talk show host Craig Ferguson who, if not quite a tech visionary, managed to strike a chord that resonated with some 225,000 online viewers.

"It has all the features of the iPod, only it's not as good, and it's five years too late," Ferguson said. "The name just makes me want to buy it," he added with clear sarcasm. "I think the market research guys said, 'What's going to appeal to the young people? Zune! It sounds good!' I'm gonna go on MySpace: 'Hey, the new Zune, it's really crack-a-lackin!'"

Just how accurate Ferguson's scenario is depends on how you define "crack-a-lackin." If you mean, as Ferguson did, a bit of recent slang that already feels stale -- well, that sort of applies to the Zune.

But what if we give the word a new meaning -- say, an unpleasant sensation somewhere between frustration and disappointment. In that case, the Zune is about as crack-a-lackin as it gets.

The Zune does have some enhancements over the iPod, and Microsoft has trumpeted them loud: a built-in FM radio, an appealingly large screen and the ability to beam music and photos wirelessly to other Zunes.

But there's a lot of other things that will keep the Zune from offering Microsoft the dominance it craves in the digital music market. The battery is not easily replaced, and it has a shorter life than the iPod's, according to several reviews. Other takes on the player, written by people who presumably know a thing or two about technology, reported serious troubles installing its software.

"People wonder whether Microsoft's underdog will overtake Cupertino's [Apple's California headquarters] reigning juggernaut this holiday season. To be honest, we wish it could, since we too are getting kind of sick of seeing the iPod on top," began one review on the influential tech site Engadget.

"The Zune is a player riddled with a lot of small issues -- death by a thousand cuts," the review concluded. "Would we recommend the product for purchase, like, right now? Not a chance."

This is too bad for Microsoft. Years after anyone would have expected it to counter the most successful product in the history of archrival Apple, Microsoft rushed out a slightly undercooked product to hit the holiday season.

But the initial reactions to the Zune are negative enough that they will not only affect the holiday sales, they may also taint the brand for years to come.

However, the Zune also is emblematic of another, bigger problem Microsoft is facing -- its awkward effort to come up with a digital rights management solution that will please movie and music companies while not alienating customers.

The goal of digital rights management is one that wouldn't cause most people who buy music to balk -- protecting copyright owners from piracy. But in many cases, effective DRM has meant constraining limits on features that many consumers take as a given. Microsoft, in searching for a comprehensive DRM solution for digital media, has too often erred on the side of the constraints.

The constraints on the Zune are, in light of other music players, crazy. Songs bought at the Zune Marketplace (Microsoft's answer to iTunes) won't play on non-Zune devices. Songs bought elsewhere -- iTunes, Yahoo! (YHOO) Music, Rhapsody -- won't play on the Zune. Songs beamed to other Zunes expire after three days, or three listens, whichever come first.

There are growing concerns that the kinds of DRM restrictions plaguing Zune also will hamstring Microsoft's Vista upgrade to Windows, which is due to be released over the next few months. If those fears pan out, then it will pull the legs out from under the biggest potential driver of Microsoft future revenue growth -- and that won't go over well with investors. (Ironically, there are reports that Zune is not yet compatible with Vista.)

Above all, Microsoft seems to have lost sight of how important simplicity is. It was one thing to force complex software on users when Microsoft ruled PC software. It's another to keep at it when there are many alternatives in the market -- as is the case today, not just with music players, but increasingly on open-source rivals to Microsoft's core products.

Given all that, it's not much of a surprise that the image that is quickly becoming the most closely associated with Zune is the photo on the page telling you that your Zune software didn't install correctly. The photo of a young woman with her face scrunched up in some intense emotion is just bizarre enough to stick in your memory. It's spreading like a virus in the tech blogosphere.

People who have enough time on their hands have puzzled over what the expression is on the woman's face. Pleasure? Pain? Anger?

Or maybe something else entirely. Why, it must be the very look of crack-a-lackin.





jag

 

[jaguarr]

They hold the patant on the touch scroll wheel that they use. There are many different versions used in many different applications.

Any company that's come just a little too close to Apple's patented implementation has had it's ass sued off by Apple and those products have very quickly disappeared from the marketplace. That's why you see some kludgy imitations, but nothing that truly has the functionality of Apple's implementation.

jag

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

patents dont expire for like 25 years. and secondly apple can just keep paying the fees to keep the patent up.

 

[jaguarr]

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/7489/983/

Why consumers are angry with Microsoft over Zune Print
By Stan Beer
Monday, 27 November 2006
As predicted by many iPod zealots, the much heralded launch of Microsoft's Zune music player has been a flop - they're moving about as fast as an elephant with arthritis. The few favorable reviews are punctuated with some real hissers that quite often sound angry. Why do so many reviewers and consumers seem to be angry with Microsoft over Zune?

Related stories

* Zune not needed for ‘squirting’
* The wizardry of Woz
* Apple tries to quantify iPod halo effect

The main reason I believe is that when Microsoft announced that it was going into the music player business, most of those who were not totally committed iPod freaks were happy. At last Apple was going to have some real competition - or so they thought. What they got instead was a pale imitation of the real deal with a few doo-dahs added on.

From most accounts, the Zune player itself is not too bad, although a bit bigger and bulkier than the equivalent Video iPod. Some people say they even prefer the earthier color range of black, white and brown, plus the screen is bigger and the case is scratch resistant. So why aren't Zune players walking off the shelves of stores all over the US?

As we know, the aesthetics of the player are but one component of the equation of the total portable music player experience. There is also the software, the music store, compatibility and usability. It is these latter things that are fuelling the annoyance of potential Zune users.

The first time I tried to download the Zune software, it wouldn't let me even though my system met the Zune software standards - Win XP SP2, a processor that runs at least at 1.5GHz, memory of at least....hang on what is this nonsense anyway!? I got none of this minimum hardware requirements rubbish when I installed iTunes 7, which installed without hitch in exactly five minutes.

In fact, I can imagine all those Windows 2000 and Win XP SP1 users who don't quite have the grunt necessary to install XP SP2 feeling quite a bit miffed by the minimum hardware demand to run the Zune software.

Anyway, as I said, I have an up to date box but the Zune software refused to install. Guess why? Because I tried to download it using Firefox, my browser of choice. Luckily for me an iTWire reader had the same problem. So Microsoft wants to alienate about 13% of browser users - actually about 40% in Germany and more than 20% in Australia - who use Firefox and force them to use IE 7 just so they can download the Zune software.

As for the Zune software download, well unlike iTunes 7 it took about 30 minutes, which included detecting all my non-DRM music and copying it over. What I got in the end was a fairly nice looking media player interface that looks remarkably like a less sophisticated version of Windows Media Player and equally remarkably is totally incompatible with Microsoft's own very good desktop media player. Is this like reinventing the wheel and doing a poorer job? Does it make me angry to know that I now have to have two very similar but incompatible media players from the same company on my desktop if I want to use Zune?

Related stories

* Zune not needed for ‘squirting’
* The wizardry of Woz
* Apple tries to quantify iPod halo effect

If I happened to be a customer of an online music store that uses Microsoft's DRM standard PlaysForSure which is integrated with my Windows Media Player, should I be upset if the Zune software didn't copy over the PlaysForSure content and will not play it? Do I really need to answer that one? As far as Microsoft is concerned, I have two choices - either have two players and two different media players (both from Microsoft) or hang your investment, just ditch what you've got and go with Zune.

Now on to the Zune Marketplace, Microsoft's new online music store. It has 2 million music tracks - a bit more than half of what iTunes has - no video and no podcasts. OK there's enough music there for most people but in order to buy something you have to use the store currency of points and there's a minimum purchase. Instead of the simple US 99c deduction from your credit card to buy a track, Microsoft wants to force you to spend a minimum of US$5 by purchasing blocks of 400 points (79 points = 99c US) - what you do with the spare 5 points after you buy 5 songs is anyone's guess. Wait, that's right if you spend US$80 you get one extra track for free!

I suppose I could go on about squirting tracks over to fellow Zune users that disappear after three days or three plays - even if they're not DRM protected. Or the inability of the Zune being able to wirelessly connect to your PC even though it's Wi-Fi capable. However, those are relatively minor things that Microsoft will no doubt address in time.

The point of all this is that Microsoft seems to have taken the one major thing that consumers don't like about iPod and iTunes - the DRM restricted closed system - and ignored all the good things. Instead of presenting Joe and Jane consumer with a viable alternative to iPod, Microsoft Zune has given consumers a poorer imitation of the same. That's why consumers are angry and Zune players, despite massive publicity are still sitting on store shelves.



Zune is DOA.

jag

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

patents dont expire for like 25 years. and secondly apple can just keep paying the fees to keep the patent up.

It's 20 years in the US actually (25 for pharmaceuticals b/c they have like a 5 year testing period). You usually pay the renewal fee on an annual or semi-annual basis for the 20 years, but after that it's fair game, unless of course you can tweak the existing patented device enough for a brand new patent, but others can still use the older version of it.

 

[jaguarr]

It's 20 years in the US actually (25 for pharmaceuticals b/c they have like a 5 year testing period). You usually pay the renewal fee on an annual or semi-annual basis for the 20 years, but after that it's fair game, unless of course you can tweak the existing patented device enough for a brand new patent, but others can still use the older version of it.

Thanks, Hulk. I was thinking it was 20 years as well but couldn't recall for sure. It's been awhile since I've dealt with the patenting process (I have a couple of patents through my company, actually).

jag