Microsoft Zune

[Mentok]

Dp.

 

[Mentok]

You know, just searching for and posting the dumbest most biased reviews you can find does your cause no good Jag.

Yeah, we all get it, you love iPod. Guess what... Alot of us are sick of the damn things. They are not perfect. they lack even basic features and the iTunes store is far from ideal.

So Microsoft is getting a product out... No need to get super defensive about it. The ZUNE is a 'modest' compeditor (Bill Gates own words). The point is, just like the first xbox, to get the name out and build a fanbase.

Sure they have alot of issues to fix. Its a new product. No new software is bug free from the start (the last iTunes update was a bugggy load of crap).

 

[jaguarr]

You know, just searching for and posting the dumbest most biased reviews you can find does your cause no good Jag.

Yeah, we all get it, you love iPod. Guess what... Alot of us are sick of the damn things. They are not perfect. they lack even basic features and the iTunes store is far from ideal.

So Microsoft is getting a product out... No need to get super defensive about it. The ZUNE is a 'modest' compeditor (Bill Gates own words). The point is, just like the first xbox, to get the name out and build a fanbase.

Sure they have alot of issues to fix. Its a new product. No new software is bug free from the start (the last iTunes update was a bugggy load of crap).

It's not so much that I love the iPod, as I have stated before in this very thread. I think some stronger competition in the marketplace is a good thing as it pushes all companies involved to do bigger and better things and we as consumers benefit. But Zune isn't that device and in fact is just junk with a very poor implementation and marketing scheme, delivering featuresets that had the potential to be cool at some point but somehow became stillborn because Microsoft is more concerned about pleasing the recording industry than they are the consumer (thus the draconian DRM scheme and crippled WiFi), which is fundamentally what their downfall on this will be. If some of the concerns and rumors that this mindset will be further illustrated in "features of Vista" turn out to be true, then Microsoft will be double damned.

As far as I'm concerned, you can hate on the iPod all you want. But for God's sake at least pick a winning horse instead of a decrepit old Mule (Toshiba Gigabeat) that Microsoft did a bit of plastic surgery on and changed the name of (Zune). It's still the same damn mule, after all. Hell, even Microsoft won't put their own name on the Zune in it's marketing, if you haven't noticed. The moment someone puts out an iPod competitor that is worth a damn, I'll probably be in line on the first day to buy one myself. But anyone desperate for ANYTHING besides an iPod to the point that they'd buy into Zune's consumer-punishing "features" is either completely blinded by their hate for Apple and the iPod or is a total masochist.

So, if reviews from the likes of Forbes, Business Week, Thestreet.com, Endadget, The Wallstreet Journal and so many others that have slammed the Zune are dumb and biased in your eyes, then I don't know what to tell you. The market reaction to the Zune seems to support what those publications have been saying in the form of sales and public opinion.

jag

 

[Gamma Ray]

From "ZuneInsider":

A lot of folks have asked me, so how is Zune doing? Despite the iFanboy pleas that Zune is DOA; it's tanking, brown is ugly, etc, I can tell you that we are exactly where we hoped we'd be. That is, without sharing specific numbers after the first week of sales. We're all looking forward to a successful holiday retail season. We're also thinking in long term here. And hey, so are you.


I'm looking forward to 2nd gen.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I liked this review. It also makes some good points about how the iPod is going to have other people start looking at Mac's who normally didnt.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=18&entry_id=11298

For the record, I've never owned a Mac, and just got an iPod last Christmas, which I love though it's far from being perfect.

 

[jaguarr]

From "ZuneInsider":

A lot of folks have asked me, so how is Zune doing? Despite the iFanboy pleas that Zune is DOA; it's tanking, brown is ugly, etc, I can tell you that we are exactly where we hoped we'd be. That is, without sharing specific numbers after the first week of sales. We're all looking forward to a successful holiday retail season. We're also thinking in long term here. And hey, so are you.


I'm looking forward to 2nd gen.

Now THAT, I will buy as a concept, Gamma; that MS is looking at the Zune as a piece of the larger puzzle in the "connected living space". There's a race to own the "digital livingroom" underway right now. Apple's in it (the iTV product they announced this fall), HP's in it (they have a tv set top box already on the market), Microsoft is eyeing it and many others are after it as well. Whoever gets that mindshare and is able to drive the interconnected computing/audio-visual living room experience will have the lion's share of a brand new, previously untapped market.

As far as the Zune itself, it's a minor part of that strategy, I would think, but a part nonetheless. Their biggest piece of it thus far is the X-Box line, and I'm amazed they didn't get some of the X-Box marketing gurus involved in the Zune, because that product needs some serious help when it comes to feature-set design and overall marketing. That said, MS is doing the same thing here that they did with the X-Box; buying their way into the market by taking a drumming on profit by selling their units at a loss just to get them into consumers hands. I'll give MS credit for one thing, and that's that they learn from their mistakes and attempt to correct them over time (doesn't mean they're always successful at it, but they do try). With their deep pockets, they can afford to do this where such a strategy would kill any other company. I have no doubt they'll release a next-gen Zune because they can afford to. If they stick with the same philosophy of business partners first, consumers second, they're always going to face backlash, though. But this first generation release is still a trainwreck, no matter how they want to paint the picture.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

I liked this review. It also makes some good points about how the iPod is going to have other people start looking at Mac's who normally didnt.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=18&entry_id=11298

For the record, I've never owned a Mac, and just got an iPod last Christmas, which I love though it's far from being perfect.

Yeah, the so-called "iPod Halo Effect". There is some evidence to suggest that is a real phenomenon. Apple's overall computer sales are rapidly going up and a lot of those purchases are from former Windows uers switching over to the Mac platform according to surveys that have been taken. I think it's great that people are looking outside of the Windows monolith, to be honest. I know people jumping into Linux and Mac's that never would have before and they're loving exploring a world they never knew existed. From everything I've read about Vista and from what I've seen of the public beta's from the testers at work, I think you'll see even more people leaving the Windows platform as well.

jag

 

[Mentok]

From "ZuneInsider":

A lot of folks have asked me, so how is Zune doing? Despite the iFanboy pleas that Zune is DOA; it's tanking, brown is ugly, etc, I can tell you that we are exactly where we hoped we'd be. That is, without sharing specific numbers after the first week of sales. We're all looking forward to a successful holiday retail season. We're also thinking in long term here. And hey, so are you.


I'm looking forward to 2nd gen.

Zune is the Xbox. Hell... J Allard is even running things. The 1st gen is to get the name out and build a fanbase. The second gen will be the real competitor.

 

[Mentok]

Now THAT, I will buy as a concept, Gamma; that MS is looking at the Zune as a piece of the larger puzzle in the "connected living space". There's a race to own the "digital livingroom" underway right now. Apple's in it (the iTV product they announced this fall), HP's in it (they have a tv set top box already on the market), Microsoft is eyeing it and many others are after it as well. Whoever gets that mindshare and is able to drive the interconnected computing/audio-visual living room experience will have the lion's share of a brand new, previously untapped market.

As far as the Zune itself, it's a minor part of that strategy, I would think, but a part nonetheless. Their biggest piece of it thus far is the X-Box line, and I'm amazed they didn't get some of the X-Box marketing gurus involved in the Zune, because that product needs some serious help when it comes to feature-set design and overall marketing. That said, MS is doing the same thing here that they did with the X-Box; buying their way into the market by taking a drumming on profit by selling their units at a loss just to get them into consumers hands. I'll give MS credit for one thing, and that's that they learn from their mistakes and attempt to correct them over time (doesn't mean they're always successful at it, but they do try). With their deep pockets, they can afford to do this where such a strategy would kill any other company. I have no doubt they'll release a next-gen Zune because they can afford to. If they stick with the same philosophy of business partners first, consumers second, they're always going to face backlash, though. But this first generation release is still a trainwreck, no matter how they want to paint the picture.

jag

Hey, I forgot about the iTV... has there been any news on it latley?

As for the Xbox guuys getting involved with ZUNE... They are. J Allard (The guy who came up with the Xbox idea and the Xbox Team leader) is running the ZUNE program. Half of the Xbox team (marketing, development and design) are on the ZUNE team (with the other half moving on to initial development and planning of the next XBOX).

As for its being a trainwreck... Thats just silly. Why not wait for a product to be on sale ffor more than a few days before judging that. Give it a year for the project to be up an running, then you can say if it has failed or not.

 

[Apollo]

Zune reminds me of that horrid childrens show called zoom, that i sometimes click past tv surfing

 

[Mentok]

If I needed a reason at all to be interested in the ZUNE (I dont, I have one and I personally like it alot better than my iPod... I just wish mac support with the ZUNE was better) is the man who is running things.

www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...ogy_technology+index+page_today's+top+stories

 

[Apollo]

i have a dell jukebox...but i dont think they sell them anymore...

but it still works fine and i've had it for a year and a half

 

[jaguarr]

Hey, I forgot about the iTV... has there been any news on it latley?

No news since they first announced they were working on it. I suspect we'll see more in January come MacWorld time, though.

As for the Xbox guuys getting involved with ZUNE... They are. J Allard (The guy who came up with the Xbox idea and the Xbox Team leader) is running the ZUNE program. Half of the Xbox team (marketing, development and design) are on the ZUNE team (with the other half moving on to initial development and planning of the next XBOX).

I read a VERY unflattering review of the Zune by Paul Thurrott who is widely regarded as a hardcore Microsoft shill who routinely gushes ridiculously and almost embarrasing love for that company. He really disliked the Zune and described Allard and company as "the human embodiment of the Zune in the same way that Steve Jobs is for the iPod" and criticizes Allard's and Microsoft's attempts at "faux coolness". But honestly, when I see pictures like this associated with Zune:

I really have to wonder what the hell their marketing people were really thinking.

As for its being a trainwreck... Thats just silly. Why not wait for a product to be on sale ffor more than a few days before judging that. Give it a year for the project to be up an running, then you can say if it has failed or not.

Honestly, it's beeen a really long time since I've seen a product met with so much coolness in the marketplace and so much criticism as well.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

If I needed a reason at all to be interested in the ZUNE (I dont, I have one and I personally like it alot better than my iPod... I just wish mac support with the ZUNE was better) is the man who is running things.

www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_49/b4012001.htm?chan=tc&chan=technology_technology+index+page_today's+top+stories

Does your Zune even work with your Mac at all? I was under the impression that MS had provided strictly a Windows only software solution.

jag

 

[Gamma Ray]

Who needs iTV when you can just use a Media Center which also acts as a picture viewer, music player, radio and TV/recorder/TiVo?

iTV is an example of "too little, too late".

 

[jaguarr]

Who needs iTV when you can just use a Media Center which also acts as a picture viewer, music player, radio and TV/recorder/TiVo?

iTV is an example of "too little, too late".

Yeah, Media Center's really taken the living rooms of America by storm. :meow:

jag

 

[Gamma Ray]

And iTV will?

And as I understand it, you'll be able to play iTunes downloaded video on you TV... But that video is sized for an iPod... So will it be extremely blurry?

You have to admit that Microsoft has a pretty damn good system going. The X-Box 360 interacts with Media Center and you can now download HD content from the 360.

 

[logansoldcigar]

Ive got an Ipod now. the 60GB video version, and i do like it.(I had an Iriver IHP 140 before that, which was groovy too). I'll prolly get a nano for the gym too in a wee while
Its even made me think about getting a MAC in a couple of years, but they are soooooooooooooooooo pricey.

 

[jaguarr]

And iTV will?

And as I understand it, you'll be able to play iTunes downloaded video on you TV... But that video is sized for an iPod... So will it be extremely blurry?

You have to admit that Microsoft has a pretty damn good system going. The X-Box 360 interacts with Media Center and you can now download HD content from the 360.

No, even the video that's available for download from the iTunes Store is pretty much standard DVD quality with some HD films available as well. The iTV (or whatever they wind up actually branding it as) will display HD quality video, not iPod sized video. You can already achieve a media hub using a Mac Mini, an external hard drive and an El Gato EyeTV 250, but...it's kludgy to do it, which is the same problem MS faces. Microsoft's system has potential, but the problem they face is that it's confusing to the average consumer and doesn't come as an all-in-one easy to use solution. As it stands right now, it's just as klunky as anything else on the market. I bet they clean it up in a hurry when Apple's solution hits the market, though.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

Ive got an Ipod now. the 60GB video version, and i do like it.(I had an Iriver IHP 140 before that, which was groovy too). I'll prolly get a nano for the gym too in a wee while
Its even made me think about getting a MAC in a couple of years, but they are soooooooooooooooooo pricey.

Not really. Have you really looked at the prices on them, lately? Try building a Dell or an HP with all the comparable features of a given Mac system and I think you'll find that they fare very well if not better than many PC's. Couple in the fact that you can run Windows AND Mac OS X in a dual boot configuration and get the best of both worlds, something PC's can't do, and you're getting an even better value.

jag

 

[Gamma Ray]

but the problem they face is that it's confusing to the average consumer and doesn't come as an all-in-one easy to use solution.

So you're saying that Mac users are stupid then...?

 

[jaguarr]

So you're saying that Mac users are stupid then...?

If you really think that's what I said then maybe it's you who's cognitive grasp we should be discussing.

jag

 

[L.A.]

Hmmm this got me interested! I just want an mp3 player that can play videos, songs, radio, and has long batter life.

 

[Equint77]

funny Jag talked about price comparison.... I checked the apple online store for desktops and found they were selling a 60GB hardrive with no DVD for over $1000... I got my dell with a 19" flatscreen, CD/DVD burner and 250 GB hardrive for $700.

My friend gave me his G3 when I had no computer earlier this year... and I could never get used to OSX programming.... maybe I'm just too used to the standard PC & Windows.

 

[jaguarr]

funny Jag talked about price comparison.... I checked the apple online store for desktops and found they were selling a 60GB hardrive with no DVD for over $1000... I got my dell with a 19" flatscreen, CD/DVD burner and 250 GB hardrive for $700.

My friend gave me his G3 when I had no computer earlier this year... and I could never get used to OSX programming.... maybe I'm just too used to the standard PC & Windows.

I dunno, dude. I just went over to Dell and Apple's websites and got these two configurations, which I feel are VERY comparable machines on a technical level in terms of components, feature sets and software included:

Apple 20" iMac

• 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
• 1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
• 250GB Serial ATA Drive
• ATI Radeon X1600/128MB VRAM
• SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Apple USB Modem
• iWork '06 preinstalled
• iLife '06 preinstalled
• Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
• AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac - Auto-enroll
• 20-inch widescreen LCD
• AirPort Extreme
• Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

Price - $1796.00


Dell XPS210

• PROCESSORIntel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2MB L2 Cache,2.13GHz,1066 FSB)
• OPERATING SYSTEM & TV-TUNERSGenuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD
• UPGRADE TO WINDOWS VISTANo Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Selected
• MEMORY1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
• HARD DRIVE250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
• OPTICAL DRIVE8x DVD+/-RW Drive
• MONITORS19 inch E197FP Analog Flat Panel
• VIDEO CARD256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
• SOUND CARDIntegrated 7.1 Channel Audio
• My AccessoriesSPEAKERSDell AS501PA 10W Flat Panel Attached Spkrs for Analog Flat Panels
• KEYBOARD & MOUSEDell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
• FLOPPY & MEDIA READERNo Floppy Drive Included
• My SoftwarePRODUCTIVITYMicrosoft Office Basic - Includes Word, Excel and Outlook email
• ANTI-VIRUS & SECURITYNorton Internet Security™ 2006 Edition 15-months
• Dell RecommendsHelp Protect Your New PC!

Price - $1705



They both include modem and ethernet but the Mac has a faster processor, better video card, built-in wireless and bluetooth, and a bigger monitor. The price difference seems pretty negligible to me.

jag