More violence in TMNT!!

[ninjaspyder13]

Let's face it: We all pretty much thought that, while the fight scenes rocked, they ended way too soon and that not one drop of blood was spilled, despite the number of sharp pointy objects in this film. Raph did not utter "Damn" even once, and there were more than a few times throughout the film where a mild profanity from the hothead would have made more sense than a Darth Vader cry of torment.

The impression I got from the movie was that the filmmakers weren't sure how audiences would react in general to edgier turtles, and so kept the violence down. It was good, but I wish there had been a lot more. They were holding back on us. Michelangelo or Don never got the visual opportunity to strut their stuff. Only Leo and Raph came off as truly lethal, badass NINJAs in this movie.

I think they were mostly scared of angry parents of movie censors going berserk upon seeing anything that hinted that angry, frustrated older teenagers might have trouble keeping their mouth sparkly clean, or that sharp blades can pierce the skin.

"The Iron Giant" and that somewhat disappointing "Titan A.E." got away with more than this film did.

I'll even be so bold as to say that they could attempt a PG-13 film, so long as they balance the action and reasonable level of violence and mild profanity with relevant humor that appeals to all levels of maturity -- gotta keep those kids from squirming -- and that will actually generate some real laughs. For crying out loud, the next Harry Potter movie is going to be PG-13 and lots of kids will be going to that movie. I don't see why TMNT movies need to shortchange themselves. I think that after this first CG film, and after Harry Potter I think audiences will welcome a PG-13 turtles film.

They need to have the guts to push it a little further next time around.

What do you people think?

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Comparing Harry Potter and TMNT is completely off base to me. While the original concept wasn't kid-friendly, TMNT is a kid-friendly brand now. I think the level of violence was perfect for the movie, how many times did they show blood in the cartoon? Harry Potter is moving to PG-13 because it's required for the franchise the books moved/evolved to a darker tone so the movies have to also, it's a different type of change. Making TMNT more violent, into a PG-13 movies doesn't make sense, in the end, the movie is made for kids and I'd hate for fanboys to rob kids of the experience to see the Turtles on screen for needless, violence.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

What needless violence? You didn't get the feeling that some things could have been longer? I'm not asking for 300 - please God no. I'm thinking for longer action that shows a little bit of blood -- like maybe a small nick even, like in the Incredibles. It really doesn't have to be much. Just enough to remind us of the danger these guys face.

Most kids don't get too bothered with the violence, I don't think. So long as it is violence for the sake of convincing us that these are dangerous ninjas -- not violence for the sake of pornographic violence, I'm not talking about. I just want fight scenes that don't end too soon. Even an extra fifteen seconds to Leo vs. Raph for example. Maybe give Mike and Don a chance to shine. I didn't get to see every one of the turtles show me what they could all really do.

And I disagree that PG-13 automatically means that kids won't come. It's still Ninja Turtles. Even if it gets PG-13, it will still be viewed as a fun, kids/young people franchise. Are you saying that just because POTC or Spider-Man was PG-13 that tons of squirming, squealing kids didn't go to see it with their family? PG-13 doesn't mean no kids allowed. It can also mean it's slightly more action-packed than usual family film.

Maybe. Maybe.

But even if it stays PG, why should it have to be any milder than Titan A.E.???? That got a PG rating and it was not without blood and profanity.

 

[Buslady]

There was one scene that would have needed Raph to yell the classic "Damn".
I dont think I need to point it out.

 

[PenanceStare]

Actually I heard there were more violent scenes, but they were deleted.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

May there please be a director's cut, or some bonus scenes on the DVD.

Much as I enjoyed this film, the next one (if there is a next one) better be more hardcore... or else.

 

[LostSon88]

Or else what? You'll only see it 2 times in the theater instead of 3?

FYI, Monroe said in an older interview that he wants to push the TMNT towards a more mature, R rated type of film but the studios scoff at the idea...rightfully so.

I'm content with what we have...the violence was the perfect amount to satisfy kids and adults.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

See it twice instead of three times? Heheh... something like that. I've yet to see it again after the first viewing (will do so this weekend).

Maybe the violence was intense enough. But the the fight scenes and even the movie could have lasted a little longer at least. Fights scenes could have been a minute longer, the movie could have been twenty to thirty minutes longer. I just feel like there was a lot of unnecessaring pandering in the wrong areas.

 

[Fried Gold]

Let's face it: We all pretty much thought that, while the fight scenes rocked, they ended way too soon and that not one drop of blood was spilled, despite the number of sharp pointy objects in this film. Raph did not utter "Damn" even once, and there were more than a few times throughout the film where a mild profanity from the hothead would have made more sense than a Darth Vader cry of torment.

The impression I got from the movie was that the filmmakers weren't sure how audiences would react in general to edgier turtles, and so kept the violence down. It was good, but I wish there had been a lot more. They were holding back on us. Michelangelo or Don never got the visual opportunity to strut their stuff. Only Leo and Raph came off as truly lethal, badass NINJAs in this movie.

I think they were mostly scared of angry parents of movie censors going berserk upon seeing anything that hinted that angry, frustrated older teenagers might have trouble keeping their mouth sparkly clean, or that sharp blades can pierce the skin.

"The Iron Giant" and that somewhat disappointing "Titan A.E." got away with more than this film did.

I'll even be so bold as to say that they could attempt a PG-13 film, so long as they balance the action and reasonable level of violence and mild profanity with relevant humor that appeals to all levels of maturity -- gotta keep those kids from squirming -- and that will actually generate some real laughs. For crying out loud, the next Harry Potter movie is going to be PG-13 and lots of kids will be going to that movie. I don't see why TMNT movies need to shortchange themselves. I think that after this first CG film, and after Harry Potter I think audiences will welcome a PG-13 turtles film.

They need to have the guts to push it a little further next time around.

What do you people think?

You are aware that TMNT is a children's program, right?

 

[Parker]

What do you people think?

I think TMNT needs a revival, DKR style.

Some gutsy writer like Frank Miller or Alan Moore needs to start a string of graphic novels that completely reimagine the turtles and their world, the way they were originally intended to be interpreted by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman, and then some.

We don't necessarily need violence and sadism of Sin City proportions, but the franchise definitely needs to be pushed back in that direction. Grit, grime, action and killer martial-arts. I want to see the turtles becoming heavily involved with the crime underworld of New York, Hong Kong and Tokyo, confrontations with the Yakuza and Chinese cartels. I want to see them speaking Japanese and quoting actual martial-art styles. These are the real ninja turtles.

Then, maybe if we're lucky, a guy like Quentin Tarantino or James Cameron will decide to bring the real turtles back to the silver screen.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

I think TMNT needs a revival, DKR style.

Some gutsy writer like Frank Miller or Alan Moore needs to start a string of graphic novels that completely reimagine the turtles and their world, the way they were originally intended to be interpreted by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman, and then some.

We don't necessarily need violence and sadism of Sin City proportions, but the franchise definitely needs to be pushed back in that direction. Grit, grime, action and killer martial-arts. I want to see the turtles becoming heavily involved with the crime underworld of New York, Hong Kong and Tokyo, confrontations with the Yakuza and Chinese cartels. I want to see them speaking Japanese and quoting actual martial-art styles. These are the real ninja turtles.

Then, maybe if we're lucky, a guy like Quentin Tarantino or James Cameron will decide to bring the real turtles back to the silver screen.

...

So. I assume that you've seen the film and thought it was worthwhile enough to discuss and in this section of the Hype. And from your post, you seem to think the amount of violence/length of fights/length of movie was appropriate and deserved no criticism. You also think that I'm out of my f***ing mind for thinking the film could be a little edgier and less sloppy next time around.

Okay. That's what you think. No need to twist my words out of proportion. Couldn't you defend why you thought or state a simple opinion rather than flame my views?

 

[Fried Gold]

...

So. I assume that you've seen the film and thought it was worthwhile enough to discuss and in this section of the Hype. And from your post, you seem to think the amount of violence/length of fights/length of movie was appropriate and deserved no criticism. You also think that I'm out of my f***ing mind for thinking the film could be a little edgier and less sloppy next time around.

Okay. That's what you think. No need to twist my words out of proportion. Couldn't you defend why you thought or state a simple opinion rather than flame my views?

There wasn't one bit in the post that you replied to in which your views were being flamed.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

To Fried Gold:

Sorry. I forget how you're all perfectionists. I should have been concise. He was flaming me -- not for my views, but for my attitude and immature fanboyish zeal. Sort of like with you and your stupid baby picture.

I realize that TMNT is considered a kiddie franchise. My wish is PG-13 -- and that may happen way in the future if views ever change about the TMNT. My impression from IMDB was that a lot of people thought it could be pushed slightly further in terms of fight length.

But this place is obviously very different. If TMNT films must for all time never go beyond a PG, my gripe was that other PG films could push things in the minimal amount blood and mild, brief profanity department. Why not TMNT?

I understand that even more importantly than longer fight scenes are the basics: a plot that doesn't suck, a decent script, and better character designs for the supporting roles -- nothing that overshadows the lead roles. This movie had a good story, but a lousy plot. Story involves characters and inner conflicts while plots involve MacGuffins and excuses for the stories to happen. I realize that all this is more important than a few good fight scenes.

But they're the TMNT. Sure, they're funny. They're ridiculous. But they're ninjas, too. They fight. All four of them. They're supposed to be fun to watch.

I certainly made a huge mistake coming on as a ZOMG fan in my posts... definitely should have stuck with the more conservative, constrained question: "Did any of you think the fights in this movie were a little short?" and left it at that. Live and learn.

Again, if you agree or disagree or have some specific points you want to bring up, then post. But if you're just gonna flame then please leave the thread alone and let it die. That's what you want, isn't it? The more you flame, the longer this wretched thread stays around to burn your eyes out and deaden your Einstein IQ.

 

[Fried Gold]

I should have been concise. He was flaming me -- not for my views, but for my attitude and immature fanboyish zeal.

NO HE WASN'T

Here, read his post again, and point exactly where he was flaming you...

I think TMNT needs a revival, DKR style.

Some gutsy writer like Frank Miller or Alan Moore needs to start a string of graphic novels that completely reimagine the turtles and their world, the way they were originally intended to be interpreted by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman, and then some.

We don't necessarily need violence and sadism of Sin City proportions, but the franchise definitely needs to be pushed back in that direction. Grit, grime, action and killer martial-arts. I want to see the turtles becoming heavily involved with the crime underworld of New York, Hong Kong and Tokyo, confrontations with the Yakuza and Chinese cartels. I want to see them speaking Japanese and quoting actual martial-art styles. These are the real ninja turtles.

Then, maybe if we're lucky, a guy like Quentin Tarantino or James Cameron will decide to bring the real turtles back to the silver screen.

Alternatively, get over it, and understand that although people may have differing opinions, it does not necessarily follow that they are direct attacks with the sole aim of belittling your views.

 

[ninjaspyder13]

NO HE WASN'T

Here, read his post again, and point exactly where he was flaming you...



Alternatively, get over it, and understand that although people may have differing opinions, it does not necessarily follow that they are direct attacks with the sole aim of belittling your views.

I'd be very surprised if Parker was actually stating his honest opinion. (I'll find out if he ever returns -- and if it was his honest opinion, I'd ask him why -- not flame him for it). However, I have reason to believe that he's not being sincere.

One -- just about everything Parker mentions in paragraphs two and three are obviously more ridiculous/over-the-top/unlikely to occur than TMNT getting a PG-13 and succeeding in revenues. (Again, if Parker is being sincere, there is no need to flame). But James Cameron and Quentin Tarantino? Why the hell would either of these guys want to produce/direct TMNT? Is it common knowledge that they are fans of the green team? Besides, any director with a reputation to keep who has half a brain will steer clear of this hated-by-all-serious-movie-critics franchise. Common knowledge. I'll be surprised if Parker's hope for TMNT is as great as his post claims it to be.

And two -- I can't help but assume, statistically, by reading the oh so friendly replies I've been getting in this thread, that I am pretty much the only person on this entire board who thinks that TMNT could have milked the PG rating a little more.

Do I need to chill out? Yeah. Good night. Hope you all enjoyed the show.

 

[Parker]

I'd be very surprised if Parker was actually stating his honest opinion. (I'll find out if he ever returns -- and if it was his honest opinion, I'd ask him why -- not flame him for it). However, I have reason to believe that he's not being sincere.

One -- just about everything Parker mentions in paragraphs two and three are obviously more ridiculous/over-the-top/unlikely to occur than TMNT getting a PG-13 and succeeding in revenues. (Again, if Parker is being sincere, there is no need to flame). But James Cameron and Quentin Tarantino? Why the hell would either of these guys want to produce/direct TMNT? Is it common knowledge that they are fans of the green team? Besides, any director with a reputation to keep who has half a brain will steer clear of this hated-by-all-serious-movie-critics franchise. Common knowledge. I'll be surprised if Parker's hope for TMNT is as great as his post claims it to be.

And two -- I can't help but assume, statistically, by reading the oh so friendly replies I've been getting in this thread, that I am pretty much the only person on this entire board who thinks that TMNT could have milked the PG rating a little more.

Do I need to chill out? Yeah. Good night. Hope you all enjoyed the show.

Jeez, man. I have absolutely no clue where you get the idea I was "flaming" you. If you get that from the fact that I quoted you by responding to "what do you guys think", well...sorry you misunderstood?

And yes, that was my honest opinion. Why? Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman's original TMNT were literally ninjas, who spoke and acted as ninjas, with the occasional quip or two. Ninjas aren't nice folk, they'll just as soon crush your adam's apple as shake your hand if you look at them wrong. Though the turtles were never needlessly brutal, they know how to kick tail and kick it well. This included the infrequent decapitation and severed limb. If you check out the original comic books, and even some of their recent material today, you'll understand what I'm talking about. The TMNT do push the envelope and they do kill when they must. These are none of the qualities displayed by the nerfed family-friendly TMNT most of the public is familiar with.

Simply because someone is prepared to cut a man's head off doesn't mean they're incapable of saying the word "cowabunga". They're still the funloving, carefree turtles you know, only with more of the ninja element. Just as Batman and Superman were created primarily for the reading of children(8-13), their characters and personas have been expanded upon to appeal to a larger age group, including adults. In the case of the TMNT, you might think of this method in reverse. Here was a book intended to be read by young adults(15-25 and older), yet over time, the franchise has been toned down and made acceptable for younger children in the interest of toy lines and PG films. Basically, the turtles got the opposite treatment and went from adult to children. They've become all teenage and no ninja, except for some nice acrobatics and stale fight moves.

As for the film, I didn't hate it, I thought it had potential. But when you ask what I think, I'm not going to give you a wishy washy half-headed answer. My honest opinion is that the franchise should be brought back to its roots, those being the original Laird and Eastman comic books, which are still running now. If I were to classify their level of violence/maturity, I would put them a notch below Marvel's MAX line or DC's Vertigo, this is the way Laird and Eastman's books have always been written.

I pull names like Quentin Tarantino and James Cameron out of the clear blue sky because these are directors who have the gift of directing deep, gritty, pulse-pounding action films, and that, in my opinion, is exactly what a top-grade TMNT film needs. Think of the TMNT being portrayed in the spirit of a film such as Kill Bill. Intelligent, action-packed and emotionally investing.

They need to have the guts to push it a little further next time around.

The way I see it, you and I are in the same boat, only I think it should sail a little bit further.

P.S. If it counts for anything, I really dug the Japanese fiddle music from the movie. The original 1990 live-action film, which I was very pleased with, could have used more of that.

 

[LostSon88]

It just aint gonna happen...EVER.

For better or worse, TMNT has become a kids franchise and there's no way the studio would approve a gritty, hardcore turtles movie in the vein of the original comics because it would be close to impossible to market to the younger audience.

One of the main reasons the first film was successful was because a majority of the audience came in expecting to see a live action version of the animated series...when they didn't they *****ed and *****ed about the violence which resulted in making part 2 so lighthearted and soft.

If the tone of this TMNT movie that we got this year is the best we can do, I'm cool as I loved the movie quite a lot.

 

[JClive2007]

Cool debate going on here, as for TMNT being a pg-13 movie in future sequels I can see both sides of the argument on one hand people still remember the old series where it was uber kid friendly where they barley show them with any bruises would create a shock for parents taking their 7 to 9 year kid to see a Ninja Turtles flick with blood in it. On the other hand when I think about a kid series becoming a movie and having a nice amount of violence in it I go back to the old school transformers movie from the 80s even tho they were robots they still had concept of death from that sneak attack on the Autobots spaceship heading back to earth or Prime's death scene. What made TMNT resurgence in pop culture possible in my opinion is that TMNT did went back to their classic black and white roots. That more mature feeling in the new series spurred their comeback it wasn't you know crappy robot foot ninjas or corny kiddy dialogue. As for kids being freaked out seeing a turtle with a sword cutting a person, I just say heck those kids probably see far worst when they play on their Xbox or Playstation 2 consoles.

As for movie directors, I rather have a dude that's a hard-core fan than a guy that's going to try to re invent the wheel instead of keeping true to the TMNT core. And for the critics damned the critics it's bout Box offices.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I think they should make a true to life TMNT movie where the violence is unsettling and the realism and political allegory of the original black and white comics is in tact.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Comparing Harry Potter and TMNT is completely off base to me. While the original concept wasn't kid-friendly, TMNT is a kid-friendly brand now. I think the level of violence was perfect for the movie, how many times did they show blood in the cartoon? Harry Potter is moving to PG-13 because it's required for the franchise the books moved/evolved to a darker tone so the movies have to also, it's a different type of change. Making TMNT more violent, into a PG-13 movies doesn't make sense, in the end, the movie is made for kids and I'd hate for fanboys to rob kids of the experience to see the Turtles on screen for needless, violence.

You are aware that TMNT is a children's program, right?

Some consider Spider-man to be a kiddie property and the movies are PG13 so I don't see why a movie like this couldn't get one either.

 

[DangerousInc.]

May there please be a director's cut, or some bonus scenes on the DVD.

Much as I enjoyed this film, the next one (if there is a next one) better be more hardcore... or else.

Agred x 2

 

[MoPlaYa]

Cool debate going on here, as for TMNT being a pg-13 movie in future sequels I can see both sides of the argument on one hand people still remember the old series where it was uber kid friendly where they barley show them with any bruises would create a shock for parents taking their 7 to 9 year kid to see a Ninja Turtles flick with blood in it. On the other hand when I think about a kid series becoming a movie and having a nice amount of violence in it I go back to the old school transformers movie from the 80s even tho they were robots they still had concept of death from that sneak attack on the Autobots spaceship heading back to earth or Prime's death scene. What made TMNT resurgence in pop culture possible in my opinion is that TMNT did went back to their classic black and white roots. That more mature feeling in the new series spurred their comeback it wasn't you know crappy robot foot ninjas or corny kiddy dialogue. As for kids being freaked out seeing a turtle with a sword cutting a person, I just say heck those kids probably see far worst when they play on their Xbox or Playstation 2 consoles.

As for movie directors, I rather have a dude that's a hard-core fan than a guy that's going to try to re invent the wheel instead of keeping true to the TMNT core. And for the critics damned the critics it's bout Box offices.

I agree with you...100%

 

[TristanJones]

If it's the gritty, violent TMNT you're after, check out the comics!

***PIMPAGE ALERT!***

http://au.comics.ign.com/articles/782/782202p1.html

Thanks for taking a look!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I do believe that they played it too safe in terms of the violence. But it was still a very fun, energetic, and entertaining film that wasn't cringe worthy or horrible like TMNT 3.

If there is a sequel I would like for them to make it grittier, darker, and more emotional.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Or else what? You'll only see it 2 times in the theater instead of 3?

FYI, Monroe said in an older interview that he wants to push the TMNT towards a more mature, R rated type of film but the studios scoff at the idea...rightfully so.

I'm content with what we have...the violence was the perfect amount to satisfy kids and adults.

Second that.