Multiple TV Universes: Good? Troubling?

[ThePowerCosmic]

DCTV is like that mean kid at daycare who doesn't like sharing.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm honestly gutted they're separating so much stuff. As a nerd, I just want to see all these characters interacting from the a list all the way down to the z list.

Agreed. Why people keep seeing a shared universe as a vice or a constraint is mind-boggling to me. If it works in the comics, I don't see why it can't work on screen and could be used to enhance/integrate the universe as a whole. I don't buy that they're doing it so they can "tell the stories they want to tell".
It just bothers me that DC is having a Flash on a relatively low-budget TV show, and then a big budget Flash eventually in the JL. I see no reason the two cannot integrate, other than that WB wants to flood the market as quickly as possible with superhero properties and they don't want to take the time to build a shared universe.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

We're getting Flash in the JL?

 

[paulogonza]

We're getting Flash in the JL?

i doubt , for me JL will be superman, batman, wonder women, aquaman and cyborg, if Flash will be soon in DCU, they dont put him on his own series, the GA will be coinfused

 

[Flint Marko]

We're getting Flash in the JL?

I assume so? I could be wrong, but I assumed the Flash was undoubtedly going to be in it. That's been a rumor anyways.
Regardless, I was using him as an example. The Bruce Wayne we get in JL will be different than what we get in Gotham. The Henry Cavill Clark will be different than any iteration we'll see in Supergirl. It's unnecessarily convoluted, and that's what I take issue with.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Did you think it was convoluted when Superman Returns wasn't connected with Smallville?

 

[Micromind]

Shared universes don't really mean much though, for instance why would I care whether John Constantine knows about Zod's invasion that happened in MOS ?

Edit: I think the real reason why people want a shared universe is that they don't want to see multiple versions of same characters, two Clark Kents, two Flash and so on.

 

[jonathancrane]

Each of the networks payed premium for the libraries they are adapting from; it makes sense that they do not want to share with others.

 

[paulogonza]

its totally different, in its a young clark until be come superman, is a young bruce before be batman, but the flash series is about the Barry allen hystory become flash, is totally different situations, yes i think it will be confuse and for anon comocbook fans will be strange, i prefer they put flash in cinematic universe first, but we wait and see.

 

[paulogonza]

and we talking about one of the JL most important members, not a constantine or arrow, the JL must be superman,woander women, aquaman, flash, green lantern and batman the big six, but i doubt will be this

 

[Flint Marko]

Did you think it was convoluted when Superman Returns wasn't connected with Smallville?

Apples and oranges. Superman Returns was connected to the Donner films, Smallville was it's own thing.
Now we are talking about having multiple different TV properties, some that connect to each other, some that don't, but none connect to the larger film universe. That sounds a bit convoluted.

Shared universes don'y really mean much though, for instance why would I care whether John Constantine knows about Zod's invasion that happened in MOS ?

Well that's almost my point in a way. Why would it be so bad if Constantine knew about Zod's invasion? You wouldn't have to address it if you didn't want to, or if you did, you could use that as a starting point to tell other stories. In a lot of ways you could pick and chose when you wanted to delve into the larger universe; it opens the door for a lot of cross-pollination of stories. Why would that be viewed as a bad thing? Comics have been doing it for decades.
Why can't Gotham serve as a prequel to the Bruce Wayne we are going to get in BvS? Don't you think that would spark a lot of interest in Ben Affleck's new iteration that has already been met with a mixed reception?
Why can't Supergirl be an extension of the kryptonian mythology established in Man of Steel? Don't you think that would bring merit to that show itself, and flesh out the universe in a more interesting, appealing way?

Each of the networks payed premium for the libraries they are adapting from; it makes sense that they do not want to share with others.

At the end of the day, WB had all the rights under one roof and could have easily planned an interconnected multi-media cinematic franchise but chose otherwise, which I think was myopic on their part. I view that as a missed opportunity.

 

[jonathancrane]

I like the multiplicity of visions.

Besides down the road, imagine if I they pulled off a multiverse special featuring all of the universes? That would be spectacular. There's a 110% it will not happen, but it's a fun thought.

 

[kguillou]

It really is a conflicting issue. At the end of the day I want the option that gives the creators the most freedom. I think we can all agree that Arrow has flourished from being able to poach from the DC library of characters relatively freely. I mean we got the freakin' FLASH in only season 2! The creative teams of Arrow and now Flash seem to have carte blanche and I like it that way.

But on the other hand, interconnectivy can be great. I really would've liked to have seen Dick Grayson/ Nightwing appear in either season 4 or 5 of Arrow and then maybe branch off into his own spinoff. I think he would've been a GREAT addition to the show and a good foil for Oliver. We maybe could've gotten a Titans vs Team Arrow showdown or something like that. But now I'm pretty sure he and the Titans will be off limits to the Arrow/ Flash universe.....at least I THINK they will be.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

But on the other hand, interconnectivy can be great. I really would've liked to have seen Dick Grayson/ Nightwing appear in either season 4 or 5 of Arrow and then maybe branch off into his own spinoff. I think he would've been a GREAT addition to the show and a good foil for Oliver. We maybe could've gotten a Titans vs Team Arrow showdown or something like that. But now I'm pretty sure he and the Titans will be off limits to the Arrow/ Flash universe.....at least I THINK they will be.

Interconnectivity is a curse when fans expect the stories to make sense based on the source material. Arrow works in part because there is no Batman or Superman. Can you really imagine a world with aliens? The threat of Deathstroke and Miraku wouldn't have meant anything.

You can't introduce the real Nightwing without the Bat mythos. He might as well be the Grey Ghost or any other character.

 

[Flint Marko]

Interconnectivity is a curse when fans expect the stories to make sense based on the source material. Arrow works in part because there is no Batman or Superman. Can you really imagine a world with aliens? The threat of Deathstroke and Miraku wouldn't have meant anything.

I don't agree with this. How does the presence of aliens or any sort of otherworldly threat undermine the other earth based villains?
Arrow is a street-level hero, and fights villains of the same caliber. He wouldn't encounter Kryptonian war engines, because that's out of his pay grade so to speak. That's not to say they couldn't both exist in the same universe, just that their paths would hardly, if ever, cross.
Notice how Marvel is moving forward with Daredevil, a street-level vigilante, and is setting it in the same universe as the Asgardians, Chitauri, etc. Putting certain characters and ideas in boxes and saying, "Oh no, this won't work with that" is silly.

 

[Zionite1]

The shared universe interferes with tv show creativity when we have heros occupying the same niche.
Eg TWS and AOS. AOS suffered creatively because of TWS.


GOTG doesnt suffer for TWS becuse they are in different niches.

 

[Zionite1]

My only gripe with this non interconnected uiverse is seeing different versions of the same character.I sincerely dread the idea of a different deathstroke for the suicide squad movie,arrow and Titans show

 

[Flint Marko]

The shared universe interferes with tv show creativity when we have heros occupying the same niche.
Eg TWS and AOS. AOS suffered creatively because of TWS.

I don't think that is true at all, nearly everyone who watches AoS has commented on how much better the show got once SHIELD disbanded after the effects of TWS.

My only gripe with this non interconnected uiverse is seeing different versions of the same character.I sincerely dread the idea of a different deathstroke for the suicide squad movie,arrow and Titans show

That's exactly my point. Why not consolidate everything? I really don't think it had to do with the supposed creative constraints, but that's just me.

 

[Zionite1]

I don't think that is true at all, nearly everyone who watches AoS has commented on how much better the show got once SHIELD disbanded after the effects of TWS.

That right there is the constraint.They had to wait for TWS to disband Shield before AOS could get good.The writers have already talked on how they were limited by TWS.

That's exactly my point. Why not consolidate everything? I really don't think it had to do with the supposed creative constraints, but that's just me.

See above.
You are right though-it is confusing having multiple versions of the character running around.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't agree with this. How does the presence of aliens or any sort of otherworldly threat undermine the other earth based villains?
Arrow is a street-level hero, and fights villains of the same caliber. He wouldn't encounter Kryptonian war engines, because that's out of his pay grade so to speak. That's not to say they couldn't both exist in the same universe, just that their paths would hardly, if ever, cross.
Notice how Marvel is moving forward with Daredevil, a street-level vigilante, and is setting it in the same universe as the Asgardians, Chitauri, etc. Putting certain characters and ideas in boxes and saying, "Oh no, this won't work with that" is silly.

Because Miraku was supposed to be a level of strength unseen in the world. If it was just turning humans into super humans then Ollie would have faced a superhuman before. The world of Arrow should have already been prepared to face a threat of super humans with stun weapons and such.

That's what made Deathstoke partly so dangerous. They had no idea how to handle him including Amanda Waller.

 

[Flint Marko]

That right there is the constraint.They had to wait for TWS to disband Shield before AOS could get good.The writers have already talked on how they were limited by TWS.


See above.
You are right though-it is confusing having multiple versions of the character running around.

Ah I understand what you are saying now, and yes, that is something I've heard before. They had to wait around until Cap 2 came out until they could show their hand and actually get to the meat of the story. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
But that's something I think was unique to AoS and the MCU. Shield has been an integral piece of the marvel cinematic puzzle since day 1, so to branch off and have a show about that is pretty bold and does, from day one, put constraints on what you are doing if the end goal is to eventually disband the entire organization the show is based around.
I don't think that will happen with the DCU. Why couldn't the flash go off on his own adventures once he departs from the JL movie? Arrow isn't a part of the team, so he's totally fine. So is Constantine, and Gotham, and most of the other shows. They would have the option to make references and nods to the greater universe when they wanted to, but would still be free, for the most part, to do what they want.
It's all about how you write it and, as I've said before, if you take the time, plan it out, and construct it well it can definitely be done. I just don't think WB cares to actually do that, as they want to get all these properties out as soon as they can.

 

[Lilbaz]

Tell me you didn't get goose bumps when you saw Tony Stark at the end of The Incredible Hulk? Or when they finally teamed up in Avengers? Tell me you're not excited about seeing Batman go toe to toe with Superman?

In a shared universe, why couldn't Ben Afleck turn up on an episode of Arrow? Or Cavill turn up on Constantine?

Also a separate universe will lesson the impact of a character on a different show/film. If I have spent 5 hours getting to know Oliver Queen on Arrow, am I going to be that impressed on a new Arrow that turns up in a Justice League. No he might be cool etc... but it wouldn't be as good as Amell turning up. You'd immediately know the character and have familiarity with him. Just the same if a baddie goes from one show to the other.

 

[Primal Slayer]

AOS didn't have much of an excuse imo in their first half of the season, sure there was some stories they couldn't tell but that doesnt mean they couldnt have made an interesting story for the first half, there are a hella lotta characters they are able to pull from so having to wait for Capt 2 to have SHIELD fall apart isn't a good enough reason for me.

And the only problem with connecting universes from movies/tvs is that you know for the most part that most of these stars just wont show up on tv. Ben aint gonna show up as Bats on Arrow.

Though of course I always love a shared universe and they could do a shared universe between shows on different networks, it wouldn't be the first time it happened, it just takes a lot more effort.

 

[jonathancrane]

I am certain for the major players - the League members-the contracts are at a premium and not include television appearances. If Affleck appears for a substantial role on a DC film production, I will eat my loafers...without salt.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Also a separate universe will lesson the impact of a character on a different show/film. If I have spent 5 hours getting to know Oliver Queen on Arrow, am I going to be that impressed on a new Arrow that turns up in a Justice League. No he might be cool etc... but it wouldn't be as good as Amell turning up. You'd immediately know the character and have familiarity with him. Just the same if a baddie goes from one show to the other.

Not seeing Smallville Arrow didn't make Amnell Arrow lesser. He has his own universe of shared characters and such. If they ever bring Doctor Fate into Constantine, I don't care if it's the Earth-2 version or the classic.


Let Marvel be Marvel and let DC be DC.

The one with multiverses. What could be cooler than seeing Superman? Maybe Earth 2 Flash or the Crime Syndicate.

An evil Superman? Yeah, I could go for that.