My Issue with "New Goblin"

[Victarion]

Best of the 3 villains, totally saved the movie for me.

 

[Naite22]

I might be in the minority in saying that Spidey3 wasn't that bad. But it's definitely not without it's flaws.

One of my biggest problem is Harry's transformation to New Goblin. Now, in the last two films, there was this GREAT subtle change in Harry. From Friend, to obsession and then discovery. The way Spidey2 left off, you had to have this great payoff.

But I felt that in Spidey3, it was totally rushed. Like a great drink just gulped down instead of savoring it. In literally 15 mins, Harry is in the Goblin Suit and battling Spidey. No build to as how he made that suit, why he decided to chose that path. In the end of Spidey2, he was conflicted about the discovery of PP as spiderman and his father being the GG. This is what should have been developed in spidey3 and the plot should have involved a way that Harry finally flips to the Goblin side.

I guess I'm a huge fan of the Dematteis' Spectacular Spider-man run and wanted to see Harry transformation unravel so much better.

I agree.... it WAS rushed, no doubt about it... Also, in the end of spidey 2 when Norman's ghost screams at Harry "AVENGE ME!!!", the first thing Harry screams when throwing the knife towards the mirror breaking it is "NOO!!!"... Already there he seems pretty determented NOT to kill Peter. Than right after he discovers the goblin lair, finding out his father was the Green Goblin which SHOULD have made it 100% clear for Harry that his father was a looney; thereby choosing NOT to kill Peter, or even consider it!

I understand that the tormenting image of his fathers ghost constantly beeing inside his head, drives him to go somewhat crazy; just like tinnitus (the ringing in your ears) will cause you to go insane (or at times at least make you believe that you ARE)... The fact of the matter is, just like you say, there's NO build-up to Harry's turn to the "dark side"! There should definitly have been that. And also we should've seen what finally pushes him over the edge, and we didn't! So I agree with you (so should we all).

ps. It pisses me off that stuff like a great build-up to Harry's evil turn WAS present in an early draft of the script, but never used in order to cut back on time! IT SUCKS! One thing that spidey 3 didn't do was to bore! Unlike Pirates 3! Pirates 3 was 2:49.... if that one had that long of a running time, than howcome Spidey 3 wasn't allowed to have the same???

 

[Spider-Fan]

Green bow tie...he accepted who his father was, and was ready to avenge him.

No more set up needed.

 

[matthooper]

Any more set-up would have been so useless. How can people want more? We had plenty of set-up in part 1 and 2.

These same people complaining about more set-up would just find something else to complain about if not this. I was dissapointed too, but these people who constantly start threads about every little complaint are just losers. Harry was the one thing that saved the movie for me...and most people.

By the way, I have never started a thread about Superman Returns. Not once.

 

[NewGoblinHarry]

The fact of the matter is, just like you say, there's NO build-up to Harry's turn to the "dark side"! There should definitly have been that. And also we should've seen what finally pushes him over the edge, and we didn't! So I agree with you (so should we all).

Have you really seen Spider-Man 1 and 2? There is where the buildup to Harry's "turn to the dark side" began. There was plenty of information there as to why Harry made the transition.

And don't tell everyone that they "should" agree with the person who started the thread. That choice "should" be left up to us.

That aside, the only thing that *maybe* would have made it a little better was the Norman-in-the-mirror scene at the beginning, which 'dodus' said was cut for the screentime.

Harry was the one thing that saved the movie for me...and most people.

I agree completely.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

Sam Raimi ruined New Goblin, Sandman and especially Venom...three characters, he totally effed up in the movie.

 

[*ANTHONY*]

well, his character development was already done in the frst two films. SM3 takes place right after SM2. I thought NG was done fine.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Sam Raimi ruined New Goblin, Sandman and especially Venom...three characters, he totally effed up in the movie.

I completley disagree. He did an amazing job with those Characters. I enjoyed every moment they were on screen.

 

[Josh Bond]

I completley disagree. He did an amazing job with those Characters. I enjoyed every moment they were on screen.

Exactly!

 

[Kaizer104]

My agreement is with the thread starter, personally. As I've said before, New Goblin should have been saved for possibly the fourth while the third gives him a reason to become New Goblin.

If Peter is trying to be friends with him and it's only a voice telling him to be bad, then that's kinda eh. Especially with the revelation of the GG being his father. He knew for a fact the GG was evil. :/

HOWEVER. If they had Peter assault his friend and just got rid of the whole New Goblin-Amnesia part (which was kinda dumb because it didn't even have to be necessary) that would enforce Harry's idea that Spiderman/Peter was a murderer.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

I completley disagree. He did an amazing job with those Characters. I enjoyed every moment they were on screen.

New Goblin - Was great at the beginning; stupid way of him forgetting all about his anger over Peter; either Raimi didn't film or cut off scenes where Harry talks to his father, Norman, in the mansion. All else was okay to me, I think he just should've been more like his father, and he wasn't; at all.

Sandman - When Flint turned into Sandman, it was amazing, but just the lacking-of with his wife and sick daughter not being in the movie, since Raimi cut those scenes out, made the character lack in the development stage which he needed since he had a new canon from the comics.

Venom - Wow...what can I not say about him? Eddie becoming Venom was awesome much to Sandman's creation too, but they should've showed him leave the church, explore his powers before meeting Marko, and he should have been given double the amount of screen time. Yes, Venom wasn't meant to be the main villain, but he should've been given a decent 12-15 minutes, and I wouldn't have mind that. Eddie Brock himself needed some more screentime too, and more with him and Gwen Stacy.

PLUS, his meeting with Sandman should've been dealted as it was in the Spider-Man 3 novel...it involved Flint, his wife and his daughter, and then Eddie Brock came in and they chatted it up. Which, also, Eddie/Venom had great speeches in the book and lousy one-liners in the movie.

 

[pjspider1C]

I don't understand why people need three 2-hour movies just to develop Harry. 2 was enough. We know the final outcome. If Harry did not become the New Goblin in SM3, people would be b*tching about that!

I'm fine with it for this reason: Harry had to choose between family and friends. And remember the scene in the planetarium where he slaps Peter and says something like, "You defend Spider-Man because he's your bread and butter. You stole MJ from me. You stole my father's love. And then you let him die, and didn't turn in the freak." HARRY WAS ALREADY PISSED AT PETER BEFORE HE EVEN KNEW HE WAS SPIDER-MAN!! All that he had left was the hallucination of his father - his only family. So when he did find out that Peter was Spider-man, that just pissed him off even more because Peter never was completely honest with him and never told him the whole story! There's no need for more set up! We have all the information we need!

 

[Rated-X]

I might be in the minority in saying that Spidey3 wasn't that bad. But it's definitely not without it's flaws.

One of my biggest problem is Harry's transformation to New Goblin. Now, in the last two films, there was this GREAT subtle change in Harry. From Friend, to obsession and then discovery. The way Spidey2 left off, you had to have this great payoff.

But I felt that in Spidey3, it was totally rushed. Like a great drink just gulped down instead of savoring it. In literally 15 mins, Harry is in the Goblin Suit and battling Spidey. No build to as how he made that suit, why he decided to chose that path. In the end of Spidey2, he was conflicted about the discovery of PP as spiderman and his father being the GG. This is what should have been developed in spidey3 and the plot should have involved a way that Harry finally flips to the Goblin side.

I guess I'm a huge fan of the Dematteis' Spectacular Spider-man run and wanted to see Harry transformation unravel so much better.

Yes we know.... everything in the film was rushed. They condensed two films down to one. Move on. It's over now.

 

[Burori]

I might be in the minority in saying that Spidey3 wasn't that bad. But it's definitely not without it's flaws.

One of my biggest problem is Harry's transformation to New Goblin. Now, in the last two films, there was this GREAT subtle change in Harry. From Friend, to obsession and then discovery. The way Spidey2 left off, you had to have this great payoff.

But I felt that in Spidey3, it was totally rushed. Like a great drink just gulped down instead of savoring it. In literally 15 mins, Harry is in the Goblin Suit and battling Spidey. No build to as how he made that suit, why he decided to chose that path. In the end of Spidey2, he was conflicted about the discovery of PP as spiderman and his father being the GG. This is what should have been developed in spidey3 and the plot should have involved a way that Harry finally flips to the Goblin side.

I guess I'm a huge fan of the Dematteis' Spectacular Spider-man run and wanted to see Harry transformation unravel so much better.

I agree & now that I've wised up, as much as I hate to say it, Venom probably shouldn't have even been in the movie because I would've actually liked the movie to focus more on New Goblin & the Sandman. I love Venom, he's my all time favorite Spider-Man villain, but Raimi & Arad should've waited until Spider-Man 4 while having Eddie Brock become Venom in Spider-Man 3. That would've been the best way to go.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

New Goblin - Was great at the beginning; stupid way of him forgetting all about his anger over Peter; either Raimi didn't film or cut off scenes where Harry talks to his father, Norman, in the mansion. All else was okay to me, I think he just should've been more like his father, and he wasn't; at all.

Sandman - When Flint turned into Sandman, it was amazing, but just the lacking-of with his wife and sick daughter not being in the movie, since Raimi cut those scenes out, made the character lack in the development stage which he needed since he had a new canon from the comics.

Venom - Wow...what can I not say about him? Eddie becoming Venom was awesome much to Sandman's creation too, but they should've showed him leave the church, explore his powers before meeting Marko, and he should have been given double the amount of screen time. Yes, Venom wasn't meant to be the main villain, but he should've been given a decent 12-15 minutes, and I wouldn't have mind that. Eddie Brock himself needed some more screentime too, and more with him and Gwen Stacy.

PLUS, his meeting with Sandman should've been dealted as it was in the Spider-Man 3 novel...it involved Flint, his wife and his daughter, and then Eddie Brock came in and they chatted it up. Which, also, Eddie/Venom had great speeches in the book and lousy one-liners in the movie.

I thought Sandmans Character and Storyline was great. We saw His Wife and Daughter in the Film and how poor they just by seeing their apartment. Thats one of the most interesting things about Sandman in this Film. I also loved how Sandman cared about His daughter so much and even though He beat up Spidey etc. it was to get money for His daughter, which I thought was great. I loved the Sandman transformation scene, it blew me away! New Goblin was great as well. His journey into following His fathers footsteps was greatly established. I love how Harry when't after Peter but then got amnesia from hitting His head in that fight with Peter.

I really enjoyed how Harry forced MJ to dump Peter and how Harry made Peter feel sad, etc. there was also great dialogue between Harry and His Father which I loved. I also loved how Harry teamed up with Spidey to fight Venom and Sandman. Harrys death was defenitley sad and I loved that scene alot. Venom was excellent and amazing as well. Eddie Brock was established great in the Film because we saw how Eddie when't from this happy and flirty guy to being depressed because He got fired from His job and Gwen dumped Him.

The church scene where Eddie Brock asks god to kill Peter Parker was ver effective and great. It showed how desperate He was. Eddie Brock transforming into Venom was mind blowing as well. I was seeing My favorite Villian being born, which was amazing. Venom talking to Sandman in the alley was great for more than one reason and one of those reasons is because it shows that Venom wants to cause Spidey more pain and pretty much make Him suffer. I mean Venom webbed up Spideys Hands and hit Him with a broken sharp peice of a pipe. I also loved Venom saying "never wound...what you can't kill" and "I like being bad...it makes me happy". I loved everything about Venom, Sandman, and New Goblin in this Film!!!

 

[Josh Bond]

I thought Sandmans Character and Storyline was great. We saw His Wife and Daughter in the Film and how poor they just by seeing their apartment. Thats one of the most interesting things about Sandman in this Film. I also loved how Sandman cared about His daughter so much and even though He beat up Spidey etc. it was to get money for His daughter, which I thought was great. I loved the Sandman transformation scene, it blew me away! New Goblin was great as well. His journey into following His fathers footsteps was greatly established. I love how Harry when't after Peter but then got amnesia from hitting His head in that fight with Peter.

I really enjoyed how Harry forced MJ to dump Peter and how Harry made Peter feel sad, etc. there was also great dialogue between Harry and His Father which I loved. I also loved how Harry teamed up with Spidey to fight Venom and Sandman. Harrys death was defenitley sad and I loved that scene alot. Venom was excellent and amazing as well. Eddie Brock was established great in the Film because we saw how Eddie when't from this happy and flirty guy to being depressed because He got fired from His job and Gwen dumped Him.

The church scene where Eddie Brock asks god to kill Peter Parker was ver effective and great. It showed how desperate He was. Eddie Brock transforming into Venom was mind blowing as well. I was seeing My favorite Villian being born, which was amazing. Venom talking to Sandman in the alley was great for more than one reason and one of those reasons is because it shows that Venom wants to cause Spidey more pain and pretty much make Him suffer. I mean Venom webbed up Spideys Hands and hit Him with a broken sharp peice of a pipe. I also loved Venom saying "never wound...what you can't kill" and "I like being bad...it makes me happy". I loved everything about Venom, Sandman, and New Goblin in this Film!!!

You could have just said that you loved the film you know.

 

[da3dl3us]

The way I see it, Harry clearly started to become Schizophrenic, beginning with his first psychotic breakdown in Spidey2.

I wanted to see him go through the stages of schizophrenia, with the voices and such, judging him, then finally him giving into it.

Then finally, embracing his delusion and becoming the Goblin.

 

[Green Goblin 1964]

I thought Sandmans Character and Storyline was great. We saw His Wife and Daughter in the Film and how poor they just by seeing their apartment. Thats one of the most interesting things about Sandman in this Film. I also loved how Sandman cared about His daughter so much and even though He beat up Spidey etc. it was to get money for His daughter, which I thought was great. I loved the Sandman transformation scene, it blew me away! New Goblin was great as well. His journey into following His fathers footsteps was greatly established. I love how Harry when't after Peter but then got amnesia from hitting His head in that fight with Peter.

I really enjoyed how Harry forced MJ to dump Peter and how Harry made Peter feel sad, etc. there was also great dialogue between Harry and His Father which I loved. I also loved how Harry teamed up with Spidey to fight Venom and Sandman. Harrys death was defenitley sad and I loved that scene alot. Venom was excellent and amazing as well. Eddie Brock was established great in the Film because we saw how Eddie when't from this happy and flirty guy to being depressed because He got fired from His job and Gwen dumped Him.

The church scene where Eddie Brock asks god to kill Peter Parker was ver effective and great. It showed how desperate He was. Eddie Brock transforming into Venom was mind blowing as well. I was seeing My favorite Villian being born, which was amazing. Venom talking to Sandman in the alley was great for more than one reason and one of those reasons is because it shows that Venom wants to cause Spidey more pain and pretty much make Him suffer. I mean Venom webbed up Spideys Hands and hit Him with a broken sharp peice of a pipe. I also loved Venom saying "never wound...what you can't kill" and "I like being bad...it makes me happy". I loved everything about Venom, Sandman, and New Goblin in this Film!!!

so long though ahhh!!It burns!t:

 

[weezerspider]

New Goblin rushed? His development started in Spiderman 1! He had more developement than GG and Ock! His development from Peter's friend, to his foe, back to his friend is the whole trillogy in a nut shell.

 

[Anwar]

I don`t think having Eddie become Venom for Spidey 4 would`ve worked. It wouldn`t have fit the theme of 3 in that all the other players in the `revenge`story got wrapped up but he didn`t, plus Venom can`t hold a movie on his own.

They should`ve just introduced Eddie and Gwen back in SM2 (there were some scenes in 2 that could be replaced by bits that develop them) and then make him Venom in 3, and just give him 30 minutes or so before getting killed.

After all, in the cartoon version he only had one episode out of a three-parter to himself, and even then the first 5 minutes or so were about wrapping up the two other villains fromt he rest of the story.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

You could have just said that you loved the film you know.

well, yeah I could have but I wanted to express My thoughts for the Villians and why I thought they were great.

 

[XXTBWCXX]

You could have just said that you loved the film you know.

Lol.

I thought Sandmans Character and Storyline was great. We saw His Wife and Daughter in the Film and how poor they just by seeing their apartment. Thats one of the most interesting things about Sandman in this Film. I also loved how Sandman cared about His daughter so much and even though He beat up Spidey etc. it was to get money for His daughter, which I thought was great. I loved the Sandman transformation scene, it blew me away! New Goblin was great as well. His journey into following His fathers footsteps was greatly established. I love how Harry when't after Peter but then got amnesia from hitting His head in that fight with Peter.

I really enjoyed how Harry forced MJ to dump Peter and how Harry made Peter feel sad, etc. there was also great dialogue between Harry and His Father which I loved. I also loved how Harry teamed up with Spidey to fight Venom and Sandman. Harrys death was defenitley sad and I loved that scene alot. Venom was excellent and amazing as well. Eddie Brock was established great in the Film because we saw how Eddie when't from this happy and flirty guy to being depressed because He got fired from His job and Gwen dumped Him.

The church scene where Eddie Brock asks god to kill Peter Parker was ver effective and great. It showed how desperate He was. Eddie Brock transforming into Venom was mind blowing as well. I was seeing My favorite Villian being born, which was amazing. Venom talking to Sandman in the alley was great for more than one reason and one of those reasons is because it shows that Venom wants to cause Spidey more pain and pretty much make Him suffer. I mean Venom webbed up Spideys Hands and hit Him with a broken sharp peice of a pipe. I also loved Venom saying "never wound...what you can't kill" and "I like being bad...it makes me happy". I loved everything about Venom, Sandman, and New Goblin in this Film!!!

I have a feeling you're one of those people that likes Spider-Man so much, that even if the movie was awful, you still wouldn't admit its flaws and it sucking so bad.

 

[Flint Marko]

I to felt it was a tad rushed, but Spider-man 3 was still the best movie of the year, IMO.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Lol.




I have a feeling you're one of those people that likes Spider-Man so much, that even if the movie was awful, you still wouldn't admit its flaws and it sucking so bad.

I don't know if you realize that...people have their own opinions. If Venom was pink (and I mean Barney pink) I wouldn't except it. This Film was amazing and I no problem with it. Just respect my opinion.

 

[Matt Murdock]

I have a feeling you're one of those people that likes Spider-Man so much, that even if the movie was awful, you still wouldn't admit its flaws and it sucking so bad.

I have a feeling you're a very wise man.