No Shared Universe for DC Films

[CConn]

Doesn't really matter about the what ifs.

This entire thread is what ifs. Everything you're saying is what ifs.

Although, to be fair, I didn't read any of the rest of your post because you didn't use paragraphs and I lost interest.

 

[CConn]

Also, I will argue to my grave that to make a truly great Wonder Woman movie, it would have to be based in WW2. Her origin is too closely tied to the war to change it to the modern day - you lose a ton of the nuances that make Wonder Woman more meaningful than just a Star-Spangled Xena.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It'll be a hard enough sale without making it a period piece. Well, maybe not, they are kind of "in" right now.

 

[CConn]

Exactly. People would eat up a cross between 300, Indiana Jones, and Saving Private Ryan.

 

[Thundercrack85]

They should shoehorn in a post credits scene in Man of Steel, Jimmy Olsen knocks on Clarks door at the Planet with a hot lead on claims about a giant bat supposedly terrorizing Gotham City or something of the sort.

Clark looks at it and goes "hmm..."

The end

Do it WB/DC, I know you wanna.

I'd prefer something more subtle. Like Lois Lane interviewing Bruce Wayne.

Or more to the point, Clark Kent interviewing Bruce Wayne at Wayne manor, and using his X-Ray vision to see the bat cave. Or maybe something with Bruce and Lex Luthor.

 

[CConn]

What about Bruce accidentally hitting on Jimmy while dressed in drag?

 

[Ibn]

And this is why I absolutely despise Nolan. He, in plain English, stated at the end of that interview that Superman and Batman NEED to be in their own standalone universes so as to accomodate him, and his relentless tunnel vision. Making it blatantly clear that he could give two ****s about the viewer. And what happens after he SAYS IN HIS OWN WORDS how much this is all, and has always been, about him? People not only buy into his approach, they buy into his philosophy which is, in my opinion, ridiculous and counterproductive. With all do respect. Wonder Woman does not need to be classified as anything other than what it is........a SUPERHERO FLICK. It doesnt have to be romanticized as an "Epic Fantasy" that has to establish a certain tone to be respectable. I never understood why people took such pride in The Dark Knight's ability to seemingly "transcend" the superhero genre. I would think that, as comic book fans, folks would swell with pride that a character as ridiculous as Batman, our character, could be taken seriously. That is the Nolan effect. A Superhero flick can never be taken seriously....unless we classify it under a different genre. Now, somebody call me a troll and prove me right.

*End Rant*

 

[CConn]

Eh - unlike most Marvel characters - I personally feel most DC characters have such a diverse style and themes (mainly due to having been created by a diverse group of people, over the course of 40 years...unlike Marvel's U which was mainly created by a small few) that they do feel like very separate entities.

So, conceptually, I see what Nolan's saying. At the same time, JLA is definitely an entity - and a good one at that - but it's always been something that has been kind of separate and cut off thematically from the heroes solo adventures. Even in the comics.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I agree, but on the other hand, give the people what they want. You want solo films? Alright, but we already have those.

Might as well do a Justice League movie too, if there is enough demand for it.

 

[Ibn]

Eh - unlike most Marvel characters - I personally feel most DC characters have such a diverse style and themes (mainly due to having been created by a diverse group of people, over the course of 40 years...unlike Marvel's U which was mainly created by a small few) that they do feel like very separate entities.

So, conceptually, I see what Nolan's saying. At the same time, JLA is definitely an entity - and a good one at that - but it's always been something that has been kind of separate and cut off thematically from the heroes solo adventures. Even in the comics.

Very true. But I think thats exactly why this would make for a more interesting approach to a group movie. Because everyone is so dead set in their own goals, forcing them to come together for the greater good would be a spectacle,as far stronger (imo) egos come to clash. But at its core, all of these characters are completely and utterly ridiculous. I just think its a wasted opportunity to let the prospect go by the wayside.
But I know im waisting my time. Especially since Zak Snyder has echoed Nolans sentiments. And you know theyll want at least three Superman movies, which kills the possibility of something anywhere near resembling a cross-over for at least another ten years.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't despite Nolan, but IMHO his attitudes about this are becoming slightly annoying.

But that's why DCE is always behind the curve.

Like Loki, they "lack conviction." They lack true visionaries like the Marvel team who made everything come together.

 

[TheVileOne]

True. But I think thats exactly why this would make for a more interesting approach to a group movie. Because everyone is so dead set in their own goals, forcing them to come together for the greater good would be a spectacle,as far stronger (imo) egos come to clash. But at its core, all of these characters are completely and utterly ridiculous. I just think its a wasted opportunity to let the prospect go by the wayside.
But I know im waisting my time. Especially since Zak Snyder has echoed Nolans sentiments. And you know theyll want at least three Superman movies, which kills the possibility of something anywhere near resembling a cross-over for at least another ten years.

That's provided people will see Man of Steel. Just remember, Superman Returns and Green Lantern tanked.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Kind of ironic that it will take Superman failing for there to be a Justice League movie.

 

[Ibn]

That's provided people will see Man of Steel. Just remember, Superman Returns and Green Lantern tanked.

I think folks will be excited for Man of Steel. Whether I like it or not, Nolan is a cash cow. And when people see his name attached, the movie will draw interest. Now, to your point, when they catch on that Zod is the villain, and not a Braniac or Darkseid, they MIGHT lose interest just as fast as they gained it.

 

[AvengeME]

Might as well do a Justice League movie too, if there is enough demand for it.

But there is no demand for a JLA movie outside of fanboys. Why is this so hard to understand? Nobody cared about the Avengers. Even Hulk played as more of a caricature than bankable blockbuster material.

There is no demand to see WW, GL, and Flash team up in a film. The GA does not care about these characters. Batman and Superman would be like Spiderman and Hulk teamed with guys like Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, etc. There is a jarring disparity.

There was a disparity more or less with the Hulk and the rest of the Avengers, but they built them all up and made the public care. Four years later, you have a franchise that is a lock for 3.5-4 billion dollars over three films, barring a royal **** up between now and then.

The difference being I don't think DC needs something like the SHIELD or extended Flash roles in a Superman movie like Marvel has been doing. That undermines the solo movies. I think they can just come together and it will work because it has already been done before. The DC universe does not ground itself in reality to the extent Marvel does.

 

[The Sage]

I'm fine with the solo film approach. I think that's where the money and true potential is anyway.

That's provided people will see Man of Steel. Just remember, Superman Returns and Green Lantern tanked.

So did Batman & Robin.

 

[Thundercrack85]

But there is no demand for a JLA movie outside of fanboys. Why is this so hard to understand? Nobody cared about the Avengers. Even Hulk played as more of a caricature than bankable blockbuster material.

There is no demand to see WW, GL, and Flash team up in a film. The GA does not care about these characters. Batman and Superman would be like Spiderman and Hulk teamed with guys like Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, etc. There is a jarring disparity.

There was a disparity more or less with the Hulk and the rest of the Avengers, but they built them all up and made the public care. Four years later, you have a franchise that is a lock for 3.5-4 billion dollars over three films, barring a royal **** up between now and then.

The difference being I don't think DC needs something like the SHIELD or extended Flash roles in a Superman movie like Marvel has been doing. That undermines the solo movies. I think they can just come together and it will work because it has already been done before. The DC universe does not ground itself in reality to the extent Marvel does.

Well, by demand, that's what I meant. If fans want it, and the general audience is going to go anyway (as it's not terrible, and has enough explosions), make it happen.

Doing solo films first would certainly help. I'd prefer it. But apparently that's just no in the cards.

 

[AvengeME]

If WB wants a billion dollar movie to rival Avengers 2 it would be a WF movie with Bale and Cavill and Nolan producing. I don't know about director. Not Snyder. Someone who has been involved in the comics and the animated series like Whedon. No other franchise as of now has the fire power to hold its own against that movie, unlike TDKR this year. It's going to be similar to Dead Man's Chest cleaning house in 2006, when it shouldn't have with the likes of Superman Returns and X-3. Superman/Spiderman sequels do not pose legitimate competition even with the best of results from ASM and MoS.

Well, by demand, that's what I meant. If fans want it, and the general audience is going to go anyway (as it's not terrible, and has enough explosions), make it happen.

Doing solo films first would certainly help. I'd prefer it. But apparently that's just no in the cards.

Fans don't carry that kind of weight. There is only so much you can hype a movie. Maybe to your immediate friends and circle, but it won't permeate much farther than that.

 

[jmc]

I don't despite Nolan, but IMHO his attitudes about this are becoming slightly annoying.

But that's why DCE is always behind the curve.

Like Loki, they "lack conviction." They lack true visionaries like the Marvel team who made everything come together.

His attitude is about making good films.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Why not just have the seperate universes be the reasoning for the movies coming together in a JLA?


Use the Flash franchise to introduce the crossing worlds aspect then just set up a quasi Crisis storyline. They could even show glimpses of a 60s Batman universe, Reeves' Superman universe, Carter's Wonder Woman, Smallville, and then have them seperate back into seperate ones at the end.

Or collapse them and have the shared universe exist as a result of a JLA movie.

Nolan's universe remains intact for continuity as a Pre-Crisis trilogy.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If WB wants a billion dollar movie to rival Avengers 2 it would be a WF movie with Bale and Cavill and Nolan producing. I don't know about director. Not Snyder. Someone who has been involved in the comics and the animated series like Whedon. No other franchise as of now has the fire power to hold its own against that movie, unlike TDKR this year. It's going to be similar to Dead Man's Chest cleaning house in 2006, when it shouldn't have with the likes of Superman Returns and X-3. Superman/Spiderman sequels do not pose legitimate competition even with the best of results from ASM and MoS.



Fans don't carry that kind of weight. There is only so much you can hype a movie. Maybe to your immediate friends and circle, but it won't permeate much farther than that.

Actually, most of my "immediate friends" couldn't care less. But if they, like most people saw a movie with lots of action and big name characters, they'd go check it out. Assuming the reviews aren't terrible like Green Lantern. If the public is willing, and fans are eager, why not?

 

[AvengeME]

Well, I don't know how you pull the film off to be honest. Not saying it can't be done.

The Thor/Loki back story was explained. If they threw that in there the first time don't you think audiences would be kinda lost? Even if you hadn't seen Thor, you probably knew he had a movie, or you saw a trailer with him interacting with Earth.

Hawkeye and Black Widow are grounded characters. They are super spies and SHIELD agents. Human characters that added human element. Don't tell me you are making time for characters like Green Arrow in a JLA movie.

So you developed half your roster quite seamlessly because one key cog already had a film that explained magical realms and other worldly creatures. Hulk and Iron Man and pretty well known like Bats/Supes but they don't overshadow everyone else as such.

I don't see the parallels.

 

[The Guard]

I think people overestimate how hard it is to flesh out the Justice League characters. No, they will not all have origin stories, but the basics? That's relatively easy.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's really quite simple. You can go about it several ways. But the easiest is to have them face a major threat. The various heroes trying to stop it, and while doing so, they run into each other, and eventually they realize they have to work together.

Or, have one hero, recruit the others. Batman or Superman would work for that role. Not hard to do when you have characters with global plans like Lex Luthor.

A more radical thing you could do, is starting a universe from scratch. Begin with Kal-El coming to Earth, the murder of Bruce's parents, do a couple of time skips, show a few other heroes and villains in various stages of development (Bruce training, Superman making his first appearances, news reports of other characters). Maybe show a few of them interacting (the big people in the universe), then move onto the main plot.

 

[Hamill-Joker]

I think folks will be excited for Man of Steel. Whether I like it or not, Nolan is a cash cow. And when people see his name attached, the movie will draw interest. Now, to your point, when they catch on that Zod is the villain, and not a Braniac or Darkseid, they MIGHT lose interest just as fast as they gained it.

I don't think the modern general audience gives a crap about the villain of a Superman film. I doubt even half of them could say that Zod was the villain in Superman II.

If Nolan's name is on it, it will likely draw. Just look at how well Inception did at a time where most big money making movies coming out are based on previously established content.