No Shared Universe for DC Films

[MadVillainy]

I agree very much with your first 2 points. I think people really need to stop worrying about Bale being in a JL movie

 

[CConn]

I agree with all of them.

Except for John Stewart.

He's the most boring character of all time.

 

[thegameq]

Youre ignoring the fact that a lot of times having characters with histories and pasts that are left in the shadows actually enhances the film and the characters themselves.

When it fits the character and story being told of course it works. It works when the characters are meant to be somewhat ambiguos -- the mysterious hero, the mysterious loner, gruff detective. Usually they fit a trope or sterotype that's been done before and easy to figure out.

Would Blade Runner be made any better if Decker's younger years were detailed? Would A New Hope have been better if the Prequels came first? Would A Fistfull of Dollars be better if we knew more about the man with no name? Or what about Taken? Or Man on Fire? Or The Girl with the Drason Tattoo. All of those movies feature amazing characters who have pasts and personal histories that are not delved into much at all at first.

C'mon CC, we all have seen those characters in one form or another. Even so you are given enough background hints on the who and whys of those characters that you can surmise their background to some degree. I can't speak on The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo as I haven't seen it.

That's how you approach a Justice League film; you utilize a few scenes that show each character in their element, establishing who they are, what they do, and what they stand for, but leave an air of mystery about what drives them, what's happened to them to make turn them into these extraordinary people.

Then - much like Star Wars - you can always go back and tell their origins later on. It's not a big deal, it's not a disservice to anyone. If anything, I think it'd give characters like Flash and Wonder Woman a bit more dimension.

Who is Wonder Woman and why is she involved in this fight? Where is she from? How come no one knows the amazons exist, etc.?
Who is the Flash? Where did he come from?
Who are all of these people?

For Wonder Woman I suppose you could show Themyscira being under attack briefly by the invading hordes of whatever and they send Wonder Woman, their champion, to investigate. I suppose you could use a similar approach for Flash, etc. But again, who are these people? Where are they from and why? Where do they fit in?

Perhaps something along the lines of the introductorions in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen; just enough to get you to identify the characters.

But again, the investment in the characters is not there. Essentially it's feels like a rush job to some degree. "This is "A", this is "B". This "C" and this is "D". Between all of this, I will give you just enough to identify the characters and keep the story moving along.

Honestly, it almost feels like throwing something against the wall and seeing what sticks--albeit in this case, what characters stick with the audience.

 

[CConn]

Um, I'm not even sure what you're rambling on about, honestly.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Wonder Woman needs/deserves a solo movie, 's all.

 

[The Batman]

Youre ignoring the fact that a lot of times having characters with histories and pasts that are left in the shadows actually enhances the film and the characters themselves.

Would Blade Runner be made any better if Decker's younger years were detailed? Would A New Hope have been better if the Prequels came first? Would A Fistfull of Dollars be better if we knew more about the man with no name? Or what about Taken? Or Man on Fire? Or The Girl with the Drason Tattoo. All of those movies feature amazing characters who have pasts and personal histories that are not delved into much at all at first.

That's how you approach a Justice League film; you utilize a few scenes that show each character in their element, establishing who they are, what they do, and what they stand for, but leave an air of mystery about what drives them, what's happened to them to make turn them into these extraordinary people.

Then - much like Star Wars - you can always go back and tell their origins later on. It's not a big deal, it's not a disservice to anyone. If anything, I think it'd give characters like Flash and Wonder Woman a bit more dimension.

This.

The whole "You've got to do blah blah blah blah blah before you can do this" is weak, and isn't even necessary most of the time.

Like CConn said, MOST blockbusters don't tell you every single thing about the characters at first. You don't necessarily need to know how they came to be, just make them interresting.

To me, if you want to justify a JL film, this would be the way to do it. An approach opposite to Marvel's. Just focus on making a great JL flick, and expand the Flash/WW/MM characters later in solo films.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

To be fair, most movies don't juggle 5/6 main characters whereas a JL movie would have to.

Flash is not the same as Hawkeye or Black Widow, he is a founding member of the League.

Replace Flash with Green Arrow or Cyborg and Wonder Woman with Black Canary or Vixen and you can use that argument.

 

[The Batman]

^ Nah, I'm gonna use the argument either way.

If one episode of the JL cartoon can introduce John Stewart, Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, and MArtian Manhunter effectively, a good screenwriter should have no problem.

cue the "Blahblahcartoonsarentmovies"

 

[CConn]

This concept of "oh, Black Widow isn't important, so that's why she was okay in the movie" is dumb as hell.

And by dumb as hell, I mean it doesn't make any logical sense.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Really, you need to start conservatively. Batman, Superman, and maybe Flash. No more than four. And throw in a few third tier heroes. If two of the main characters already know each other, that would save a lot of time.

Then in the sequel you can introduce, and even focus on new characters.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

This concept of "oh, Black Widow isn't important, so that's why she was okay in the movie" is dumb as hell.

And by dumb as hell, I mean it doesn't make any logical sense.

Not saying she's not important, just that in my book she is not to the Avengers what Wonder Woman is to the Justice League.

 

[HighFivingMF]

There are about 3 or 4 animated movies with no connection to anything else that introduced a League of 7 members and had no problems whatsoever. All of those movies are about 80 minutes. A 2 hour movie will be fine.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There are about 3 or 4 animated movies with no connection to anything else that introduced a League of 7 members and had no problems whatsoever. All of those movies are about 80 minutes. A 2 hour movie will be fine.

They would not work as live action films. You need to introduce these characters properly.

 

[metaphysician]

There are about 3 or 4 animated movies with no connection to anything else that introduced a League of 7 members and had no problems whatsoever. All of those movies are about 80 minutes. A 2 hour movie will be fine.

And all of those movies together haven't made enough money to make a movie exec give you the time of day.

Remember, different mediums are not equally interchangeable. What works for a TV cartoon series won't necessarily work for a feature film. In a TV series, for instance, there is the audience expectation that the next episode will provide more character and background details. . . which only works if there is an episode next week.

 

[HighFivingMF]

And all of those movies together haven't made enough money to make a movie exec give you the time of day.

Never said they did. They successfully established a League of 7 heroes without any build-up.

Remember, different mediums are not equally interchangeable. What works for a TV cartoon series won't necessarily work for a feature film. In a TV series, for instance, there is the audience expectation that the next episode will provide more character and background details. . . which only works if there is an episode next week.

They were animated movies, not TV shows. I didn't say anything about TV.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

There are about 3 or 4 animated movies with no connection to anything else that introduced a League of 7 members and had no problems whatsoever. All of those movies are about 80 minutes. A 2 hour movie will be fine.

I guarantee you that 80 percent of the people that are aware of those animated features have watched Justice League and Justice League: Unlimited on TV, or are some in some manner 'in the know' about the Leagues origins.

Good luck raking in that Avenger money with the aid of fanboys alone.

The casuals are gonna get Avengers to the 1.5 billion dollar mark. Not lurkers of this website. The casuals enjoyed Thor and Captain America and Ironman, they demanded more.

Is this rocket science !?

 

[CConn]

Not saying she's not important, just that in my book she is not to the Avengers what Wonder Woman is to the Justice League.

But that's not the point, it's about quality of characterization and screen time.

In terms of screentime and overall focus, I'd say it would translate like this:

Superman = Captain America
Batman = Iron Man
Wonder Woman = Thor
Green Lantern = Hulk
The Flash = Black Widow
Aquaman = Haweye

If all of the DC characters had the same quality of characterization and screentime dedicated to them as their Marvel counterparts, I'd be very pleased with a JLA movie.

 

[Thundercrack85]

They really don't translate. The DC characters have their own (rather extensive) universe, detailed history, with supporting characters, turf, and usually work on their own. They also tend to be much more powerful.

Hawkeye is a government agent with exceptional archery skills. That doesn't require a lot of explanation (if any). Aquaman on the other hand, is either a prince, or king of Atlantis. He has a complex backstory. He's not even human. You can't just throw him into a story like Hawkeye. They need a lot of screentime. That goes for most characters.

That's why you can't have too many of these characters in the first movie. They're from such different backgrounds.

 

[CConn]

Eh, I'm quite sure a half decent writer could do it easily.

You really need to get through your head that you just lack the talent and vision to actually figure it out yourself.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Eh, I'm quite sure a half decent writer could do it easily.

You really need to get through your head that you just lack the talent and vision to actually figure it out yourself.

I'm sorry I can't be as awesome and talented as you. What do you do for a living again?

 

[CConn]

I'm an executive at a major retailer.

I've always enjoyed and excelled at writing, but retail is surprisingly lucrative, with incredible career advancement.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, do all us laymen a favor then and send in a script when you have a free moment.

 

[MadVillainy]

Eh, I'm quite sure a half decent writer could do it easily.

You really need to get through your head that you just lack the talent and vision to actually figure it out yourself.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Why is everyone in this thread so angry?

 

[MadVillainy]

Why is everyone in this thread so angry?

That's every fanboy's secret, MF. They're always angry.