New Battle Plan for WB/DC

[biolumen]

Batman can fit in Justice League. If they have to do Justice League, start filming in about 6-7 years. Have other films take place:

Man of Steel
Green Lantern
SuperMax
The Flash
Batman 3
WonderWoman

Thing is, WB isn't Marvel. They don't have to do a JL movie or really much of anything superhero related. They can continue to profit from other types of movies, much like how they've been doing over these past umpteen years. This so-called WB/DC summit probably had less to do with how to make more superhero movies and more to do with how to maximize the profit potential on what few movies they do end up making. A lot of people against this movie were saying wait until the solo films have their run, then make the team up JLA movie. I and many other JLA fans who wanted this movie to be made now complained that if WB does end up following such a plan, their history points to a JLA movie 10-12 years down the road, if we ever see one at all.

Am I too pessimistic? By their own words, WB execs say that although they are having "discussions" about DC properties, nothing at this point has changed in the way they make these movies, and I personally don't think they will change, not as long as Robinov and Horn are in charge at WB. I really hope for a fundamental change in the way DC properties are turned into movies at WB. A semi-autonomous production house with DC at the controls but under WB's wing would be ideal, but I haven't seen or heard anything pointing to that ever happening anytime soon.

That's why I wanted it now. Best I can hope for now is that they won't follow the Marvel model and proceed to make a JLA movie right after Batman 3, no matter how many other solo movies have made their debut by that time (probably 1 at most).

 

[Double Down]

This so-called WB/DC summit probably had less to do with how to make more superhero movies and more to do with how to maximize the profit potential on what few movies they do end up making.

I don't doubt that for one second.

 

[Robin91939]

Warners and DC clearly see that they have missed opportunities.

Yes- they are a profitable film titan- and have and will be- but more money means more to them than less money- and sitting on these HUGE properties while Sony, Universal, Fox and now the independent Marvel Studios are cashing in on their comic book properties- is going to make them want to get more involved.

They see that a franchise done right can be huge. The new Batman franchise will pass the 2 billion dollar mark in ticketsales (world wide) and trademarked sales after The Dark Knight ends its theater run. That's big business.

They see that other heroes of Batman's caliber (Spider-man) have made serious lettuce at the theater and through merchandising...WB OWNS THREE huge properties in comics in the forms of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. You don't think they are thinking..

"Man our Batman sequel really took off-- maybe a Superman sequel that improves on the mistakes of the first could do good business too?"

or

"Man, a character like Iron Man that not too much of the public was aware of made enough to be the second largest grossing film of the year- in a year filled with Indiana Jones, Batman, Hulk, James Bond and the latest Pixar film...maybe Wonder Woman, Flash or Green Lantern, who have more notarity could do just as much business.."

We KNOW that they are thinking of these things. We KNOW that they are pissed that they sat on these films SOOOOOO LONG that they have to delay the next Harry Potter film to give themselves a suitable SUMMER 2009 tentpole feature. Do you think that they would have rather had Harry Potter and the Half Blooded Prince on the sheet at the end of this fiscal year? Along with The Dark Knight, and Wanted to erase Speed Racer from the year's memory? YES they would. It is KILLING them that they mishandled the next Superman film or possibly this Justice League: Mortal.

Will Warner Brothers continue to be a film giant in the years to come? Yes...absolutely. BUT- would they be EVEN bigger of a giant if they launched films based on the properties that they have the rights to? Oh. GOD. YES. These are all 200 million dollar films (at least) if they are done right. These are not Hellboy type characters- that even when NAILED cinematically it will translate into $78 million domestically. If you nail a Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman, or Batman film....you will BREAK BANK...WB knows this---or at least is seeing this.

They're going to have to wise up.

-R

 

[Double Down]

Not just for Warner Brothers, but for all studios, Iron Man and The Dark Knight may have an adverse effect on the superhero movie genre, because of the increased expectations.
There are plenty of superhero movies that could be made on modest budgets, and make a modest profit, but are they going to be viewed as failures if they don't make "Iron Man money" or, even more unlikely, "Dark Knight money" at the box office? I think most people put Wonder Woman above Iron Man in any kind of hierarchy you want to use, but how much profit is there in a Wonder Woman movie? Yet it would be expected to do more business than Iron Man because it is Wonder Woman.
It's one thing for a Batman movie to blow up, but when even Iron Man is that big, the expectations are going to go up across the board (Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Captain America, Thor, etc.). Watch what happens to Punisher: War Zone. That movie has the unenviable task of coming between The Dark Knight and The Watchmen, and I don't know anyone that is excited to see it. And if it flops (which I think is likely), watch the stories come out that people are getting tired of superheroes. As if all superhero movies are painted with the same brush.
And as for The Watchmen, my question is this: What is the likely box office for this movie? I really want to see it, as does, I would assume, most everyone posting on here. But that also was true of Sin City, and that movie had big movie stars in it and it still didn't even reach $75 million. Are expectations going to be unrealistic because of Iron Man and The Dark Knight? Or will this be a sleeper hit out of nowhere like 300?

 

[biolumen]

If you nail a Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman, or Batman film....you will BREAK BANK...WB knows this---or at least is seeing this.

Making these movies also involves much risk, given their cost, and Superman Returns shows just how WB reacts to an underperforming superhero movie. Paraphrasing, WB is now saying that they won't make a movie until they can guarantee themselves a certified hit, a nearly impossible task. That comment from them alone puts the most doubt in my mind.

Anyway, actions speak louder than words, and seeing is believing. If they do wise up, good for them, and for us. But I think Robinov and Horn have been there too long and are too set in their ways to allow for much change to happen. As hard it is to believe after TDK's wild success, I still feel it will take a change in management at the top before we see any major changes in the way they make these movies.

I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

 

[dnno1]

Not just for Warner Brothers, but for all studios, Iron Man and The Dark Knight may have an adverse effect on the superhero movie genre, because of the increased expectations.
There are plenty of superhero movies that could be made on modest budgets, and make a modest profit, but are they going to be viewed as failures if they don't make "Iron Man money" or, even more unlikely, "Dark Knight money" at the box office? I think most people put Wonder Woman above Iron Man in any kind of hierarchy you want to use, but how much profit is there in a Wonder Woman movie? Yet it would be expected to do more business than Iron Man because it is Wonder Woman.
It's one thing for a Batman movie to blow up, but when even Iron Man is that big, the expectations are going to go up across the board (Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Captain America, Thor, etc.). Watch what happens to Punisher: War Zone. That movie has the unenviable task of coming between The Dark Knight and The Watchmen, and I don't know anyone that is excited to see it. And if it flops (which I think is likely), watch the stories come out that people are getting tired of superheroes. As if all superhero movies are painted with the same brush.
And as for The Watchmen, my question is this: What is the likely box office for this movie? I really want to see it, as does, I would assume, most everyone posting on here. But that also was true of Sin City, and that movie had big movie stars in it and it still didn't even reach $75 million. Are expectations going to be unrealistic because of Iron Man and The Dark Knight? Or will this be a sleeper hit out of nowhere like 300?

I don't think that it is the case that the film would have to make "Iron Man" or "Batman" money. If it is made on a low budget and the return on the investment is more than what you would get on a conventional investment (like a bank or the stock market) you will probably see another film out of it. "Resident Evil", although not a comic book film, is a perfect example of that. So is the Punisher (2004) film.

 

[Double Down]

1. Those movies came out before 2008, the year that I think changed everything.
2. I am talking exclusively about superhero movies.
3. The Punisher is effectively being rebooted.

 

[jabbatheridge]

I think you've also got to take into account how well some of the DC comic characters are known internationally. Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are all well known in the UK, but most on my non comic book reading friends wouldn't know who Green Lantern or the Flash were. So as a result if the WB made a movie about them it probably wouldn't put as many "bums of seats" or make as much money as a Batman or Superman flick. Most of the Marvel properties have been released in other media before, the Hulk, X-Men, Spider-Man, Iron Man, all had other media exposure through cartoons before the movies were released. Yet Warners haven't made any attempt to give characters like Flash and Green Lantern their own series (although I admit they played prominent roles in JLA). So as a result the characters aren't as well known and might not make as much internationally as they would domestically, which has to be a BIG consideration when you think about all the other countries these films will be exported to. Perhaps this is part of what's holding Warners back, but it's a situation of their own making and only they can remedy it.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

People are going to expect sofisticated and elaborate superhero movies. Not movies that would have been succesful 20-30 years ago. The basic mold has been broken multiple times this summer and DC has to deliver characters and movies with that in mind. People wont settle for less now. Try bringing out garbage like ghost rider in the theatres again and no one will waste their time and money.

 

[jabbatheridge]

People are going to expect sofisticated and elaborate superhero movies. Not movies that would have been succesful 20-30 years ago. The basic mold has been broken multiple times this summer and DC has to deliver characters and movies with that in mind. People wont settle for less now. Try bringing out garbage like ghost rider in the theatres again and no one will waste their time and money.

Raising the bar can only be a good thing though. Hopefully more studios will invest extra time and money in trying to make "the next TDK" out of their superhero franchise. Most, probably won't manage it but might raise the level of an otherwise mediocre franchise trying. There's bound to be a few failures (probably more than a few) but if the success of TDK and Iron Man encourage the studios to try harder, that can only be a good thing.

 

[Steelsheen]

Warners and DC clearly see that they have missed opportunities.

Yes- they are a profitable film titan- and have and will be- but more money means more to them than less money- and sitting on these HUGE properties while Sony, Universal, Fox and now the independent Marvel Studios are cashing in on their comic book properties- is going to make them want to get more involved.

They see that a franchise done right can be huge. The new Batman franchise will pass the 2 billion dollar mark in ticketsales (world wide) and trademarked sales after The Dark Knight ends its theater run. That's big business.

They see that other heroes of Batman's caliber (Spider-man) have made serious lettuce at the theater and through merchandising...WB OWNS THREE huge properties in comics in the forms of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. You don't think they are thinking..

"Man our Batman sequel really took off-- maybe a Superman sequel that improves on the mistakes of the first could do good business too?"

or

"Man, a character like Iron Man that not too much of the public was aware of made enough to be the second largest grossing film of the year- in a year filled with Indiana Jones, Batman, Hulk, James Bond and the latest Pixar film...maybe Wonder Woman, Flash or Green Lantern, who have more notarity could do just as much business.."

We KNOW that they are thinking of these things. We KNOW that they are pissed that they sat on these films SOOOOOO LONG that they have to delay the next Harry Potter film to give themselves a suitable SUMMER 2009 tentpole feature. Do you think that they would have rather had Harry Potter and the Half Blooded Prince on the sheet at the end of this fiscal year? Along with The Dark Knight, and Wanted to erase Speed Racer from the year's memory? YES they would. It is KILLING them that they mishandled the next Superman film or possibly this Justice League: Mortal.

Will Warner Brothers continue to be a film giant in the years to come? Yes...absolutely. BUT- would they be EVEN bigger of a giant if they launched films based on the properties that they have the rights to? Oh. GOD. YES. These are all 200 million dollar films (at least) if they are done right. These are not Hellboy type characters- that even when NAILED cinematically it will translate into $78 million domestically. If you nail a Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman, or Batman film....you will BREAK BANK...WB knows this---or at least is seeing this.

They're going to have to wise up.

-R

bravo! couldnt've said it better myself.

 

[The Major]

Making these movies also involves much risk, given their cost, and Superman Returns shows just how WB reacts to an underperforming superhero movie. Paraphrasing, WB is now saying that they won't make a movie until they can guarantee themselves a certified hit, a nearly impossible task. That comment from them alone puts the most doubt in my mind.

Isn't this the same with every movie?

This would be much easier if the WB management understood their comic franchises more IMO. Not that I think that will happen to the extent that I would like.

Thank god the Batman franchise got Nolan, Uslun, Goyer and Burton.

Anyway, actions speak louder than words, and seeing is believing. If they do wise up, good for them, and for us. But I think Robinov and Horn have been there too long and are too set in their ways to allow for much change to happen. As hard it is to believe after TDK's wild success, I still feel it will take a change in management at the top before we see any major changes in the way they make these movies.

I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

Agreed.

 

[The Major]

I think you've also got to take into account how well some of the DC comic characters are known internationally. Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are all well known in the UK, but most on my non comic book reading friends wouldn't know who Green Lantern or the Flash were. So as a result if the WB made a movie about them it probably wouldn't put as many "bums of seats" or make as much money as a Batman or Superman flick. Most of the Marvel properties have been released in other media before, the Hulk, X-Men, Spider-Man, Iron Man, all had other media exposure through cartoons before the movies were released. Yet Warners haven't made any attempt to give characters like Flash and Green Lantern their own series (although I admit they played prominent roles in JLA). So as a result the characters aren't as well known and might not make as much internationally as they would domestically, which has to be a BIG consideration when you think about all the other countries these films will be exported to. Perhaps this is part of what's holding Warners back, but it's a situation of their own making and only they can remedy it.

I agree.

It's a major edge Marvel has over WB.

WB really needs to let their lesser franchises grow. They don't just have to depend on their big budget film division. They have made progress in animation at least. I'd like them to expand more into live action tv series in a similar pattern eventually. Only in better ways then Smallville.

 

[jabbatheridge]

I remember someone once talking about a Gotham Central live action series, I still think that's an excellent idea and could be made on a TV budget.

 

[The Major]

Gotham Central would be a good vehicle for that.

Chase is another. She's a DEO who investigates meta-human and super-natural threats.

 

[jabbatheridge]

Gotham Central would be a good vehicle for that.

Chase is another. She's a DEO who investigates meta-human and super-natural threats.

Never heard of Chase, has she had her own book? Mind you just from that one line I can tell that show has the potential to be a hit. How many great shows have their been over the years involving characters investigating weird stuff. X Files, Supernatural, Fringe etc. Would be a sure fire hit.

 

[The Major]

Never heard of Chase, has she had her own book? Mind you just from that one line I can tell that show has the potential to be a hit. How many great shows have their been over the years involving characters investigating weird stuff. X Files, Supernatural, Fringe etc. Would be a sure fire hit.

It was an ongoing in the 90's. Didn't last past 6 issues IIRC.

Right now Chase is in the supporting cast of Manhunter.

This would have more potential to show the DCU then Gotham Central, though that would be good to explore it in a more limited and realistic show in GC any way. The more variety the better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_(comics)

 

[jabbatheridge]

Yeah there's not many comic book live action shows on the air at the moment and Smallville's about to seriously go off the boil with Michael Rosenbaum, Kristin Kreuk and the original creators all about to depart the show. We could use something new on the air to fill that time slot, although compared to other live action superhero shows Smallville's had an amazing lifespan.

 

[The Major]

Yeah there's not many comic book live action shows on the air at the moment and Smallville's about to seriously go off the boil with Michael Rosenbaum, Kristin Kreuk and the original creators all about to depart the show. We could use something new on the air to fill that time slot, although compared to other live action superhero shows Smallville's had an amazing lifespan.

Whatever new tv adaptions happen need to be much higher quality then Smallville. Its good at getting some recognition but not in execution.

WB needs its own Buffy quality show. That would increase its chances of viewership loyalty and mainstream appeal beyond relying on Superman's image like Smallville has.

 

[Webhead2006]

YEa if they really are having so much problems getting characters like flash/ww/gl/green arrow/etc..... out there in films they should get more public interest in their characters with more animated films like new frontier, the upcoming ww solo film, and then give some solo animated shows, live action tv shows, or even direct to video live action films for lesser guys who probably wouldnt do well in theaters like jonah hex, the question, and others i dont really know about.

 

[The Major]

YEa if they really are having so much problems getting characters like flash/ww/gl/green arrow/etc..... out there in films they should get more public interest in their characters with more animated films like new frontier, the upcoming ww solo film, and then give some solo animated shows, live action tv shows, or even direct to video live action films for lesser guys who probably wouldnt do well in theaters like jonah hex, the question, and others i dont really know about.

It looks like they're going in that direction. Thats a very good thing.

It's going to take a while, but it's fantastic WB is going might be in the direction of long term strategies for their lesser properties.

 

[jabbatheridge]

I think a The Question show would be amazing. It could work as a weekly series and they could include the Huntress as his sidekick, kind of like in the Question Authority episode of JLU. Personally I'd watch it and I think it'd be nice for a live action comic book series not based on the Superman mythos. I like Supes as much as the next guy and for the most part I've enioyed Smallville but he's had how many live action shows now? Give someone else a chance.

 

[The Major]

Question could be good, too.

The reason I bought up Chase is that it can go anywhere in the DCU to keep those lesser properties in some spotlight. And WB might see it having more potential thanks to other successful shows like X-Files.

Question can't do this without looking forced. It would be a smaller budget, though.

I do agree WB needs to start branching off from both Batman and Superman for their other lesser properties. But I do understand why they do it.

 

[Webhead2006]

YEa i really hope things are changing with wb/dc on their comic properties.

 

[The Major]

Robin:

A comic film franchise shouldn't have to be to be a TDK or Spider-man to get their attention.

Hellboy and Blade did well enough to get sequels.

You forget these lesser properties had far less backing then the A-list franchises. They no cartoons or tv series which went on for generations to get the public on their side and they still managed to do well.