No Way Home No Way Home Rumors, Leaks And Speculation Thread (Potential Spoilers Ahead)

[Chris B]

I think we will see the visual changes to villains vary for each villain. For example, I expect Electro's redesign to be more different than say Sandman or Doc Ock.

These are my thoughts as well. The Webb villains are the ones that I suspect will be redesigned the most actually.

I think Dafoe's GG suit will get an update but I suspect that it'll still be evocative of the original suit.

Dock Ock and Sandman looked pretty much perfect so I'm only expecting relatively minor redesigns for them.

 

[GwensNeckBrace]

I wouldn't be mad if they gave Ock a yellow/green comic inspired costume. MCU always nails their designs.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well people seem to assume the idea of redesigns is to fix something. but whose to say they wouldn't redesign just for the sake of redesigning? Marvel ain't particularly shy of differencing things from the source material. Marvel can just often get away with it because who else can you have faith in if its not marvel themselves?

 

[Arachnerd]

You know you're making a baseless assumption, right?

 

[henzINNIT]

Well people seem to assume the idea of redesigns is to fix something. but whose to say they wouldn't redesign just for the sake of redesigning?

It's a fairly closed question. We know costume design will have taken place for this film for every character. There is certainly an amount of redesigning for the sake of it. It's a given with these properties. They'll be different to their last appearance but still those characters. The only real factor is if the designs are good, but Marvel's track record for costumes is solid.

 

[GuestStar2004]

You know you're making a baseless assumption, right?

Just like everyone else.

 

[Arachnerd]

I don't think other people are wording their assumptions as fact, but I digress.

They could explain the redesigns as being side-effects of the multiverse and such, like they were pulled from their home worlds when they weren't supposed to and it alters their appearence a bit.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Again....no one outside of fans will care if they have new costumes. There is no need to explain it, lol. Unless they start with same costumes and get mid-movie upgrades. Then that will be the explanation. But if they just start the movie with new outfits...no one will care lol.

 

[Arachnerd]

Well, to be fair, we all know hardcore Spider-Man fans online will care. The less said about Spider-Man Twitter, the better.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well yeah they kinda would need to explain it, even if just a little bit.. these ain't new villains, these are meant to be in some way linked to the Raimi and Webb Series. i imagine they would want to keep that connection acknowledged, otherwise whats the point in doing this?

 

[henzINNIT]

It's a faulty either/or.

The costumes will be updated.
The costumes will be similar to previous incarnations.

There's plenty of room to change things before it becomes something unrecognizable. Dafoe as Green Goblin for instance can look a bunch of different ways but he'll still be understood as Dafoe's Goblin. Molina with 4 metal tentacles is pretty distinctive.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well yeah they kinda would need to explain it, even if just a little bit.. these ain't new villains, these are meant to be in some way linked to the Raimi and Webb Series. i imagine they would want to keep that connection acknowledged, otherwise whats the point in doing this?

The actors are the connection. Most people who see these movies are not super fans. These are people who would maybe remember the actors from the prior movies and that is about it. That is who buys most of the tickets to these movies. So no one needs to take 5 mins to explain why they look different from the other movies. Most of the audience just won't notice or care. Just us internet nerds will notice. Fans over estimate the importance of these trivial things

 

[GuestStar2004]

The actors are the connection. Most people who see these movies are not super fans. These are people who would maybe remember the actors from the prior movies and that is about it. That is who buys most of the tickets to these movies. So no one needs to take 5 mins to explain why they look different from the other movies. Most of the audience just won't notice or care. Just us internet nerds will notice. Fans over estimate the importance of these trivial things

Id argue the fans are more likely to really recognize the actors in different roles. its the regular audience that probably won't catch it unless you point it out to them. because the fans are the ones who are gonna follow every ounce of news about the movie. while alot of regular audience don't keep up to date with whose cast. and if they want to make sure those people notice then yeah there probably will need to do something.

And according to alfred molina it picks up with him the last time we see him in SM2. and de-aged. which might be part how they connect it with the regulars who really only go by the films. and then they can use whatever logic they want to have fun with the concept after.

 

[Nardz937]

Doc Ock could swap his trench-coat for a white suit and it doesn't need explanation. Same is if The Lizard puts on a pair of purple pants or Rhino gets a new machine.

I don't think the same characters giving themselves a new attire needs a deep explanation.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Id argue the fans are more likely to really recognize the actors in different roles. its the regular audience that probably won't catch it unless you point it out to them. because the fans are the ones who are gonna follow every ounce of news about the movie. while alot of regular audience don't keep up to date with whose cast. and if they want to make sure those people notice then yeah there probably will need to do something.

And according to alfred molina it picks up with him the last time we see him in SM2. and de-aged. which might be part how they connect it with the regulars who really only go by the films. and then they can use whatever logic they want to have fun with the concept after.

Picks up where that story left off doesn't necessarily mean we will see that scene. It could just mean he was there and now he is in the prison per the plot and that is backstory. No guarantee that scene is actually shown.

General movie goers are not always up on continuity and such. They do recognize actors though. My family is my barometer for the lay person in this way. They could recognize Roger Moore if he was on a new Bond film for example, and same applies to the prior cast. They will notice these guys from older movies. They may not know how these all connect, hence the need for trailers and explaining how they are alive. But they will remember the actor from an older movie.

 

[henzINNIT]

These actors and the characters they're playing are years older than we last saw them. It would be more strange if their looks hadn't changed at all.

I think the costume updates are going to be pretty much in line with how fondly the looks are remembered. I expect the Raimi Spidey suit to be pretty similar to the original. At the other end of the spectrum Webb's Electro wil be different.

I think Goblin will be updated. I think it would be cool to degrade and rot his original suit to make it more ghoulish, and tell a story with the costume. New mask/helmet. I think Raimi himself would say he wasn't quite happy with the 2002 designs. There's respecting the past, but it shouldn't stifle a contemporary take. There are tools available now that Raimi might have used if he could. I would bet you money the design was severely limited by technology. Beyond that animatronic mask, I'd bet he had to be super simple for the sake of early cgi, and certainly no cloaks allowed.

 

[GuestStar2004]

These actors and the characters they're playing are years older than we last saw them. It would be more strange if their looks hadn't changed at all.

Well Alfred Molina Claimed he was gonna be de-aged. so take that for what you will.

I imagine they wouldn't de-age without a purpose.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well Alfred Molina Claimed he was gonna be de-aged. so take that for what you will.

I imagine they wouldn't de-age without a purpose.

The de-aging makes sense cause storywise he is going to be that age, and again actor faces are what people remember. Not so much the attire they wore. So this makes sense. But de-aging also doesn't mean we will see that scene in a flashback or anything.

 

[The Infernal]

I think any possibility of needing an explanation for new costumes comes down to the context of their return appearance. If they appeared in a flashback or at a time very near to their last appearance then I think the general audience would recognise an inexplicable change.

If they for the most part appear after some time has passed then you can probably get away with little to no explanation for costume changes. Some could even be intuitive, like Ock simply having a new white suit. We don't exactly need to see him walking to a shop and either robbing it or purchasing a suit.

That said, I still like the idea of Osborn outfitting himself and others with new gear.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The de-aging makes sense cause storywise he is going to be that age, and again actor faces are what people remember. Not so much the attire they wore. So this makes sense. But de-aging also doesn't mean we will see that scene in a flashback or anything.

But you can have a familiar face. if people even catch on to the face alone. doesn't mean the audience will make the connection desired. even more so in a time when alot of that stuff has kinda been thrown around so casually with characters like Ralph *****.

Personally i think there will be some ties to the previous movies to make the links more clearer to people. presumbaly the fun aspect will be in these characters crossing over from the Raimi and Webb movies and going up against Holland's spider-man. so you probably want fans and casuals to be on the same page with what they are seeing. not just an excuse to redesign villains.

 

[Marvel united]

It would be simpler and a lot more honest if you just came out and said you hope they stick to the costume from the first movie.

Correct, that's the subject of this conversation. The objective (my objective), is to argue why that should be the case. I never said otherwise to what I'd personally prefer in this film

You wouldn't have to keep constructing strawmen to bolster your position and pretend that people you don't know who worked on a project you know little about would be offended or that the audience would be insulted.

Just like how no one here has argued for the elf hat or a 1 to 1 representation of the 60s Green Goblin.

Many have argued for that, actually. Ditto for the Jim Carrey cartoon Goblin mask. What do you think "more comic accurate" means if not the addition of those elements?

Rubbish. He wore a nurse's uniform as part of one of his costume changes, you absolutely can seperate his performance from the costume. Phoenix even had his own take on the Joker costume too, there are other valid interpretations. Had they went with a different design you would be none the wiser.

Okay, but you know as well as I do that I'm primarily talking about Ledger's makeup design. Y'know, the one element of his look that's constant throughout the entire film? The one element that he, himself, helped develop. Do you think that if you swapped out the scars, white war paint and matted hair, for a tuxedo vest, dreadlocks and bleached skin, that the performance would not change ? If Ledger otherwise looked like this

Would such an aesthetic overhaul not radically alter Ledger's performance?​

 

[The Infernal]

Correct, that's the subject of this conversation. The objective (my objective), is to argue why that should be the case. I never said otherwise to what I'd personally prefer in this film​

You hid behind fake offense and strawmen to present your position as the morally right thing to do instead of admitting that it was just what you wanted to see happen.

I don't think you know what a metaphor is. Perhaps you meant you were just being hyperbolic? Either way it's not the most honest way of having an argument by feigning outrage.

Many have argued for that, actually. Ditto for the Jim Carrey cartoon Goblin mask. What do you think "more comic accurate" means if not the addition of those elements?

Actually, no. Otherwise you wouldn't have to move the goalposts to "more comic accurate" instead of 1 to 1 as I pointed out. It just shows that you're just guessing and arguing against a strawman, again. I've argued against the elf hat specifically numerous times and most examples I see from others here are advocating for either a hood or helmet, among other changes.

If you do manage to come across someone advocating that position here or elsewhere, feel free to take it up with them.

Okay, but you know as well as I do that I'm primarily talking about Ledger's makeup design. Y'know, the one element of his look that's constant throughout the entire film? The one element that he, himself, helped develop. Do you think that if you swapped out the scars, white war paint and matted hair, for a tuxedo vest, dreadlocks and bleached skin, that the performance would not change ? If Ledger otherwise looked like this

Would such an aesthetic overhaul not radically alter Ledger's performance?

No, I don't. We were having a talk about costumes. If you wanted to talk about Ledger's make-up specifically and not the entire ensemble, then you should have said so.

My point still applies regardless. Had they went with something akin to Phoenix's Joker you would still be none the wiser. Heath's make-up only really impacted a minor affectation of his character, him smacking his lips, which he decided to improvise into his character. It's a minor detail and not the end all of his performance. I'm not saying costumes/make-up are immaterial, but in most cases the performances are the heart of it and can be viewed separately.

That's why you give the example of something so egregious as a dreadlocked Joker, because at that point you're going so far outside of what people recognise as the character's design that it becomes distracting. Which is ironic as that's pretty much what people feel about the Raimi Green Goblin.

 

[henzINNIT]

Well Alfred Molina Claimed he was gonna be de-aged. so take that for what you will.

I imagine they wouldn't de-age without a purpose.

You imagine they'll de-age with purpose, but won't similarly imagine that they will costume appropriately?

If they're shooting Molina emerging from the depths directly after Spider-Man 2, I would imagine they would adhere to continuity. If they're picking up with him any time after, it's reasonable to assume he'll look a bit different.

 

[GuestStar2004]

You imagine they'll de-age with purpose, but won't similarly imagine that they will costume appropriately?

If they're shooting Molina emerging from the depths directly after Spider-Man 2, I would imagine they would adhere to continuity. If they're picking up with him any time after, it's reasonable to assume he'll look a bit different.

Well de-aging probably fits in with whatever logic they are going for in using these characters. in terms of the costume. well in-multiverse reasoning for that could vary.

I look at it like this. and i think its a fair way to look at it. if you are going with the multiverse angle then you want to create a direct link between the elements and where they are from. it helps make that connection later on if you bring Toby and Andrew into the mix. the villains are probably gonna be given makeovers, even if its for the sake of toy sales. but if they decide to cover up any and all recognition with a new look, then many won't make the connection. so i tend to focus on how they will balance out a new look while also keeping that connection. and there are many ways to do that.

Course they could go very bold and make the goblins new design into straight-up hulk goblin. but im still gonna give them benefit of the doubt that they will try and be well balanced with it creatively, given the multiverse subject matter.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Well de-aging probably fits in with whatever logic they are going for in using these characters. in terms of the costume. well in-multiverse reasoning for that could vary.

I look at it like this. and i think its a fair way to look at it. if you are going with the multiverse angle then you want to create a direct link between the elements and where they are from. it helps make that connection later on if you bring Toby and Andrew into the mix. the villains are probably gonna be given makeovers, even if its for the sake of toy sales. but if they decide to cover up any and all recognition with a new look, then many won't make the connection. so i tend to focus on how they will balance out a new look while also keeping that connection. and there are many ways to do that.

Course they could go very bold and make the goblins new design into straight-up hulk goblin. but im still gonna give them benefit of the doubt that they will try and be well balanced with it creatively, given the multiverse subject matter.

You're overthinking it. They're variants. They'll likely be different. Just the same actors.