Legend of Zelda Offical The Legend of Zelda Thread

[Timstuff]

Not really. Everything that fans use to determine the order of which the games take place is from the games. Most of the inbetween stuff is mentioned in prologues.

But the fans are never in universal agreement about what order the games are supposed to go in, and you often end up with dumb crap like people putting Link's Awakening after The Wind Waker instead of A Link to the Past. What I find stupid about the whole timeline thing is that the fans end up re-arranging stuff as more games come out, as if the more games there are in the series the more accurately they can create a timeline (even though it's the opposite).

Take Link's Awakening, for example-- when the game came out, it was pretty obvious that it was meant to be the sequel to A Link to the Past since there were some references to ALTTP, like Link "dreaming" of fighting the wizard Agahnim during the last boss battle, and because of the shared artwork in the manuals for both games. However, when Wind Waker came out, a lot of the timeline fans went "Oh, these both feature Link on a boat at sea, so obviously Wind Waker is a prequel to A Link to the Past!" It never occurs to them that perhaps Miyamoto and Aunoma simply liked the boat concept enough that they wanted to revisit it, regardless of story.

The thing is, if Miyamoto did have some "master blueprint" of how the entire series was supposed to connect together chronologically (as many timeline fans desperately hope he does), what does he have to gain by hiding it? If the intention is that this is one long ongoing saga, what reason would Miyamoto have to keep it a secret for 20 years? And why do so many elements of the series' mythology change, like Ganon going from being sealed away by "Seven Wise Men" in Link to the Past, to being seven co-ed "sages" of various species in Ocarina of Time? It's a shared element, yes, and there are some hints of history between the two, but it's not actual continuity.

My opinion is that it's meant to literally be THE LEGEND of Zelda, and much like many legends of old, there are multiple versions that share many of the same characters and themes. Perhaps at one point in "history" there was one story, but over fictional "time" is got framgmented and combined with other legends, and now we have the "legend" of Zelda. I see no need for the entire series to exist in the same continuity though, nor do I see a possibility for it due to so many glaring inconsistencies.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

yeah, they need to visit that concept again.

The annoying thing is about one-third the masks are useless besides getting all of them to get the Fierce Diety mask. One mask, the Circus Leader mask, is useful for one objective but in order to get the Circus Leader mask, you need the mask you get from completing the objective where the Circus Leader mask is useful. So unless you want to do that task again, it's useless.

But the fans are never in universal agreement about what order the games are supposed to go in, and you often end up with dumb crap like people putting Link's Awakening after The Wind Waker instead of A Link to the Past. What I find stupid about the whole timeline thing is that the fans end up re-arranging stuff as more games come out, as if the more games there are in the series the more accurately they can create a timeline (even though it's the opposite).

Take Link's Awakening, for example-- when the game came out, it was pretty obvious that it was meant to be the sequel to A Link to the Past since there were some references to ALTTP, like Link "dreaming" of fighting the wizard Agahnim during the last boss battle, and because of the shared artwork in the manuals for both games. However, when Wind Waker came out, a lot of the timeline fans went "Oh, these both feature Link on a boat at sea, so obviously Wind Waker is a prequel to A Link to the Past!" It never occurs to them that perhaps Miyamoto and Aunoma simply liked the boat concept enough that they wanted to revisit it, regardless of story.

Most people agree that Link's Awakening goes after Link to the Past. Of course there will be a few detractors who disagree over a rather odd reason. Much like the people who think Minish Cap goes first because that is when Link gets his green hat.

And why do so many elements of the series' mythology change, like Ganon going from being sealed away by "Seven Wise Men" in Link to the Past, to being seven co-ed "sages" of various species in Ocarina of Time? It's a shared element, yes, and there are some hints of history between the two, but it's not actual continuity.

The LttP intro refers to sealing the gate to the Sacred Realm, not Ganondorf.

I see no need for the entire series to exist in the same continuity though, nor do I see a possibility for it due to so many glaring inconsistencies.

It gives people something to discuss between games and that's a lot of time given Nintendo's record of delays.

 

[Grommers]

Didnt miyamoto say there was a timeline, he just wasnt going to follow it very closely if it meant interference...like, i picture there being a very rough time line...obviously with multiple inconsistencies, in someways its smart since it gives a lot more for fans to discuss in trying to think basically what miyamoto thought of.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I love when things aren't exactly clear with something, it lets you formulate your own theories and reasons.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2009/08/what-if-link-was-evil-and-gano.php#comments

Article makes an interesting point about the Zelda stories. I wouldn't mind seeing a new twist on the formula.

 

[AndThePickles]

I really want a new game already :impatient:

 

[hippie_hunter]

Link to the Past and Link's Awakening aren't the first games. Ganon was already sealed in the Sacred Realm at the start of LttP. Link's Awakening can fit in several places but it was intended to be a sequel to LttP so it's often put following LttP.

A Link to the Past was specifically stated to take place before the Legend of Zelda:

ALttP ---> LA ---> LoZ ---> AoL

Alternate realities can be created through time travel. Look at Back to the Future Part 2.

This is how I see time travel working:

 

[Spidey-Bat]

That's far more confusing than a split timeline.

LttP and LA can take place before LoZ and AoL. But no game with the Master Sword can take place before LttP b/c of the ending.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But that's how time travel would probably end up working as a loop with the original and double co-existing until a certain point where the original fulfilled his/her purpose within history, instead of splitting off into multiple timelines within a particular universe.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

But going by that picture, the original is leaving behind a parallel timeline. It even says the double created an altered future so the unaltered future could exist.

Besides, there would be too many contradicting things to put all the games in a single timeline.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But going by that picture, the original is leaving behind a parallel timeline. It even says the double created an altered future so the unaltered future could exist.

Besides, there would be too many contradicting things to put all the games in a single timeline.

The unaltered future doesn't exist. The original becomes the double and no longer exists. It's a loop within time, not a split in time.

Think of the original as Adult Link, in the end of Ocarina of Time he becomes Child Link, who serves as his double. Child Link (Double) goes off having his own little adventures such as Majora's Mask while Adult Link (Original) is growing up and saving Hyrule from Ganondorf.

Child Link then goes off living his life while the original Adult Link no longer exist because he has to become the Child Link double.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

That makes the theory more clear to me but I don't think it could work when applied to Zelda.

If Ganondorf's banishment to the Twilight Realm takes place while Child Link goes to Termina, then how could Adult Link fight him and Zelda seal him within the Sacred Realm at the end of Ocarina?

 

[Mogwai]

^alternate timelines, i guess.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I made it on Paint.



The thing that contradicts it is Ganondorf dies in Twilight Princess. That would mean he can't break free from the Sacred Realm as he does before Wind Waker. So there'd have to be two timelines.

 

[Grommers]

Well, off the topic of timelines, I recently downloaded OoT for the Wii.


Man, this is so much better than any zelda game, all the characters...seemed like characters had personalitities. When I played Windwaker and TP, aside from Midna in TP I thought character development was lacking hardcore.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I replayed OoT as well and beat Ganondorf yesterday. Maybe it was b/c it was my 5th time playing it and I used the Biggoron Sword more, but I felt that it was pretty easy. Especially the first 5 dungeons/temples.

 

[Grommers]

Easy in comparison to what?

I found OoT puzzles much harder than WW and TP.

WW i found much longer than TP.

Yet TP had interesting, not hard, but interesting puzzles.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I haven't played WW or TP in long time (I'm going to start playing TP again). I thought the boss fights in the first 5 dunegons were pretty easy. Though Phantom Ganon kept moving out of the way of the energy blasts I'd bounce back. I was using the jump attack more which does double damage.The puzzles in the first 3 dungeons are pretty easy.

 

[Grommers]

I'm playing through OoT and stuck in the 2nd water temple, such a pain. Got the dungeon map/compass.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Water Temple is frustrating. I missed a small key and had to go back. If you have Farore's Wind, use it where the mark is to raise the water to the highest level. Helps keep you from having to back track a lot.


I started Twilight Princess again though I'm playing it on Gamecube this time. I'm about to start the 3rd dungeon. The first two were much more challenging than the first two in OoT. I also like how TP has you utilize your weapons more.

If anyone is interested in how it's different from the Wii version, the biggest obvious difference is it's mirrored which is a bit disorienting at times but you get used to it. I think the sword combat is a lot better. There's no aiming reticule like in TP, it's basically how it was in the previous 3D games. Unfortunately they put the Midna button on Z so you can only have 2 weapons assigned at once (X and Y). They should have put Midna on the Dpad and had the item screen be on the pause menu. Though when you consider you could only use one weapon in TP at a time with B, it's not a huge disadvantage.

 

[Grommers]

Yeah, watertemple i missed a key and have to go back.

Taking a break from it for a bit, i cant stand the water temple. I found ocarinas first water dungeon a little hard. TP i just kind of walked through, and a lot of it was just common sense, but mind you some temples in windwaker i read were supposed to be hard, i found a complete breeze, while others had me walking around for hours. So, I guess its all on how your able to receive what your supposed to do next.

I just want hyrule to be back to normal in OoT .

 

[hippie_hunter]

That makes the theory more clear to me but I don't think it could work when applied to Zelda.

If Ganondorf's banishment to the Twilight Realm takes place while Child Link goes to Termina, then how could Adult Link fight him and Zelda seal him within the Sacred Realm at the end of Ocarina?

Because Adult Link and Child Link co-exist at the same time until Zelda sends Adult Link to the past to live his childhood and becomes the new double continuing the loop in time.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I made it on Paint.



The thing that contradicts it is Ganondorf dies in Twilight Princess. That would mean he can't break free from the Sacred Realm as he does before Wind Waker. So there'd have to be two timelines.

You can't just "kill" Ganon. He's too powerful to be merely killed unless he is in an incredibly weakened state like in the original Legend of Zelda.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You can't just "kill" Ganon. He's too powerful to be merely killed unless he is in an incredibly weakened state like in the original Legend of Zelda.

He was incredibly weakened in TP, too. He had been stabbed by the Sages' sword and had blood dripping out of him. Then Link drove the Master Sword into the wound. The Triforce fading on his hand strongly suggests he's dead.

Still, it can't be a loop because Wind Waker has to take place after the OoT ending where Ganondorf is sealed within the Sacred Realm and Hero of Time Link doesn't exist b/c he was sent back. Also, in WW there were the stained glass windows of the awakened sages (Saria, Darunia, etc). They were only awakened as sages in the aforementioned ending.

 

[Grommers]

I really wish they would bring back Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Malon, out all the zelda games, those are the main people i remember, twilight princess I can barely name any of them. Kefka & Tingle are the only people i can remember from Majoras Mask..and in windwaker but mostly cause of him being in majoras mask.

OoT characters all seemed much more developed.