OFFICIAL: Best CBM of 2014 thread (so far)

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It's all in the way it's written. Also we don't know how much of a role RDJ if it's supporting or more of a beefed up cameo?

I doubt they are giving him $40 million for a beefed up cameo. The article also stated he originally had that type of role in the story, then it was developed into a bigger role within the movie as a main player.

But let's remember, that not all CBM are fully adapted from the originals.

We got a bastardized version of the Dark Phoenix saga where Cyclops was killed in the beginning.

We have a more Dark Knight Returns Batman than a younger Batman for Batman vs. Superman who's probably been doing it for 15-20 years.

We had Harry Osborn not Norman Osborn kill Gwen and in this incarnation, she knew that Peter Parker was Spider-Man.

I groaned when I read that Wolverine was going to take Kitty's role in Days of Future Past. But it worked out and not only that, it erased a lot of the garbage from TLS and possibly Wolverine Origins.

Out of those, only 1 worked and that was the DOFP one, Batman vs Superman we have yet to see if it works or not. I personally didnt want Batman in that movie either.

You would think a regular audience member understands that Iron Man isn't going to pop up in every other MCU movie. '

I am pretty certain they, I didnt say otherwise.

I'm not going to argue that Iron Man until Avengers came out was the most profitable property. But as I said before, not many people thought it was Iron Man and the Avengers. It was just the Avengers. So it's MUCH easier to say that Iron Man doesn't need to be the driving force in Avengers 2 when the previous movie, it was more of a collective balance.

Iron Man created Ultron in the MCU, he is obviously going to be a HUGE part of AOJ, bigger than the others could possibly be, its his creation the team end up fighting.

And again, we don't know how big of role RDJ will have, but I don't see him as the "driving force" behind a Captain America movie.

If you think of the current state in the MCU. Shield is disbanded. Cap and Falcon are on their own looking for answers. There is a level of mistrust. We don't know what the Avengers fit in when there's no more Shield per se or Fury being the director.


I don't think IM is being overused. I don't think he outshines every other character in Avengers. And again he's not going to outshine Captain America in his own movie.

We will see, by the sounds of it he is going to be main antagonist of the movie, thats how it sounded to me anyway, and then he will have a huge role in Avengers 3. And Iron Man had big role in Avengers, I am not having that he didnt, he certainly had a bigger role than Banner/Hulk, Thor, Black Widow or Hawkeye, and thats the majority of the team. Plus, he probably had more interaction with Loki than Thor did overall in the movie.

Wolverine became popular because of the X-Men movies.

Iron Man became popular because of the Iron Man movies.

Iron Man is probably the closest comparison you could make but the Avengers wasn't an Iron Man movie. X-Men 1 - X-Men: The Last Stand were for the most part Wolverine movies. Captain America 3 isn't going to be an Iron Man movie.

Wolverine was already the most popular X-Man you can tell that even in the 90's cartoon, I agree he was over-used in the movies, and in 2009 I wasnt desperate to see another X-movie with him in, but FC, TW and DOFP have certainly changed that.

I feel Iron Man is over-used now, but if they use him well enough I will change my mind just like I did with Wolverine. I will say though, Wolverine hasnt been as central to the plot of any X-Men movie Iron Man sounds like he will be in Avengers 2.

 

[Erzengel]

I was discussing it with someone and they used the exact word I missed "excessive".

Right now that's Wolverine.

Can Iron Man approach that depending on how Cap 3 and Avengers 2 goes? Possibly but as of right now. Iron Man is in one more movie that Cap. Even with cameos.

I still don't feel Marvel is as dependent on Iron Man as X-Men are as on Wolverine.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think both SIDS of this argument need to admit that Iron Man and Wolverine have both been used extensively and both will continue to be so. Marvel has more choices they can branch out with which they are doing and Fox now is at least looking to expand the x-universe.

Both have been used extensively, but Iron Man hasn't dominated the MCU the way Wolverine has the X-Men universe.

To see that we can look at the other characters. If Iron Man is the Wolverine of The Avengers, then Cap is the equivalent role to Cyclops. So ask yourself this question, how has Cyclops been used in the X-Films compared to how Cap has been used in the MCU?

 

[Shikamaru]

I have yet to see anyone here provide sound evidence to how Iron Man is excessively overused other than him being more popular with moviegoers, which has nothing to do with what's happened on screen so far. Sure, maybe AoU and Cap 3 will change that, admittedly I'm just as worried, but that still has nothing to do with what's occured so far. I felt the need to repeat it.

I think people are (either consciously or subconsciously) angered by the fact Iron Man has gained greater popularity among moviegoers than Cap, and that anger creates the illusion that Marvel has excessively used him at Cap's cost. It's for the same reason people subscribe in conspiracy theories. People naturally hate the idea things can happen at random and thus want to point the blame at someone. There's no way Iron Man could be more liked by the audience than Cap, obviously it's Marvel's hand at work.

I prefer Cap over Tony as well. He's my favorite Avenger. In my ideal world, he would also be the face of the MCU. However, I still acknowledge the truth when it's there. There was no Cyclops treatment with Cap, no Iron Man domination over his fellow teammembers past the box office results. Marvel tried bringing both characters to bring both characters to life, Iron Man just happened to be a bigger lightning in a bigger bottle. At least for now.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Good point. We should only be discussing films that have already been released. Otherwise, we are just guessing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I have yet to see anyone here provide sound evidence to how Iron Man is excessively overused other than him being more popular with moviegoers, which has nothing to do with what's happened on screen so far. Sure, maybe AoU and Cap 3 will change that, admittedly I'm just as worried, but that still has nothing to do with what's occured so far. I felt the need to repeat it.

I think people are (either consciously or subconsciously) angered by the fact Iron Man has gained greater popularity among moviegoers than Cap, and that anger creates the illusion that Marvel has excessively used him at Cap's cost. It's for the same reason people subscribe in conspiracy theories. People naturally hate the idea things can happen at random and thus want to point the blame at someone. There's no way Iron Man could be more liked by the audience than Cap, obviously it's Marvel's hand at work.

I prefer Cap over Tony as well. He's my favorite Avenger. In my ideal world, he would also be the face of the MCU. However, I still acknowledge the truth when it's there. There was no Cyclops treatment with Cap, no Iron Man domination over his fellow teammembers past the box office results. Marvel tried bringing both characters to bring both characters to life, Iron Man just happened to be a bigger lightning in a bigger bottle. At least for now.

100% agree. Iron Man has been an importatn Avenger, yes. But, so has Cap. While RDJ is hard to ignore due to his talent, Avengers didn't make Iron Man the overwhelmingly most important character. He and Cap were about equal, and in phase 2, actually Cap's was by far the most important one (and that trend seems to be continuing into Phase 3). Anyone arguing the Marvel films is all about Iron Man is just flat out wrong and basing this on the sole fact he has 3 movies while the other Avengers are at 2 or 1 currently. But, that is the advantage of being first out of the gate. Even if RDJ ends up in more Marvel films than Cap does when all is said and done, that doesn't matter. It's all about how the films themselves distribute the load, and so far, Marvel has been great at it. Not the filmmakers fault only Iron Man has reached 1billion at the BO by himself.

 

[First Avenger]

Did you honestly expect Tony NOT to be featured in Phase3?

 

[First Avenger]

Edit

 

[DeadPresident]

I have yet to see anyone here provide sound evidence to how Iron Man is excessively overused other than him being more popular with moviegoers, which has nothing to do with what's happened on screen so far. Sure, maybe AoU and Cap 3 will change that, admittedly I'm just as worried, but that still has nothing to do with what's occured so far. I felt the need to repeat it.

I think people are (either consciously or subconsciously) angered by the fact Iron Man has gained greater popularity among moviegoers than Cap, and that anger creates the illusion that Marvel has excessively used him at Cap's cost. It's for the same reason people subscribe in conspiracy theories. People naturally hate the idea things can happen at random and thus want to point the blame at someone. There's no way Iron Man could be more liked by the audience than Cap, obviously it's Marvel's hand at work.

I prefer Cap over Tony as well. He's my favorite Avenger. In my ideal world, he would also be the face of the MCU. However, I still acknowledge the truth when it's there. There was no Cyclops treatment with Cap, no Iron Man domination over his fellow teammembers past the box office results. Marvel tried bringing both characters to bring both characters to life, Iron Man just happened to be a bigger lightning in a bigger bottle. At least for now.

Great points. I'll admit that may have colored my assertions about Iron Man. I watched IM1 again last night, and I picked up what I feel is the "best" portrayal of Tony Stark because it balanced his humanity with the billionaire-philanthropist-playboy angle well enough that you could be sympathetic to him while viewing him as cool. My criticism might stem from the fact that as he's developed, and particularly in TA with how he interacts with the other members, he's lost that human aspect a bit and it feels like they've gone full *****e-mode because that's what the audience enjoys, and further cements his popularity. My main points of reference for that are Stark's dialogue with Thor, Banner and Cap throughout, it comes off as talking down to those characters to seem cool. Granted by the end of the movie there's more balance, and a respect between Stark and Cap.

I pick up a disconnect between where Tony started in IM1, and largely how he is in the solo films with how they showed him in TA. Hopefully AoU will show a more balanced side to him, in IM3 he was definitely more relatable than I thought he was in TA. I mean maybe that's what you have to do in team-up movies because everybody shares screen time, but I don't think there should be too much of a departure from his character between solo projects and the team up movies.

 

[Erzengel]

Stark talks down to everyone. To the point where tempers flair and Cap tells him to put on the suit. That's how he is in his solo movies. Even to Fury, Natasha, War Machine.

I mean IM2 was essentially an analysis on Tony Stark by Shield and they recognized he wasn't a team player but knew how valuable he could be as a member.

And in the Avengers, his attitude about working as a team led to a fight with Thor and later in the movie realized that he couldn't do it alone even having Cap take the lead.

 

[Shikamaru]

Great points. I'll admit that may have colored my assertions about Iron Man. I watched IM1 again last night, and I picked up what I feel is the "best" portrayal of Tony Stark because it balanced his humanity with the billionaire-philanthropist-playboy angle well enough that you could be sympathetic to him while viewing him as cool. My criticism might stem from the fact that as he's developed, and particularly in TA with how he interacts with the other members, he's lost that human aspect a bit and it feels like they've gone full *****e-mode because that's what the audience enjoys, and further cements his popularity. My main points of reference for that are Stark's dialogue with Thor, Banner and Cap throughout, it comes off as talking down to those characters to seem cool. Granted by the end of the movie there's more balance, and a respect between Stark and Cap.

I pick up a disconnect between where Tony started in IM1, and largely how he is in the solo films with how they showed him in TA. Hopefully AoU will show a more balanced side to him, in IM3 he was definitely more relatable than I thought he was in TA. I mean maybe that's what you have to do in team-up movies because everybody shares screen time, but I don't think there should be too much of a departure from his character between solo projects and the team up movies.

That's just who Tony is. He has a sarcastic "*****e" sense of humor, doesn't necessarily make him a jerk. It's how he talks to everyone in the MCU. It has nothing to do with some Marvel agenda to downplay the other characters, that's just who the character is. Doesn't mean the film is saying the rest are inferior to Tony either.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Great points. I'll admit that may have colored my assertions about Iron Man. I watched IM1 again last night, and I picked up what I feel is the "best" portrayal of Tony Stark because it balanced his humanity with the billionaire-philanthropist-playboy angle well enough that you could be sympathetic to him while viewing him as cool. My criticism might stem from the fact that as he's developed, and particularly in TA with how he interacts with the other members, he's lost that human aspect a bit and it feels like they've gone full *****e-mode because that's what the audience enjoys, and further cements his popularity. My main points of reference for that are Stark's dialogue with Thor, Banner and Cap throughout, it comes off as talking down to those characters to seem cool. Granted by the end of the movie there's more balance, and a respect between Stark and Cap.

I pick up a disconnect between where Tony started in IM1, and largely how he is in the solo films with how they showed him in TA. Hopefully AoU will show a more balanced side to him, in IM3 he was definitely more relatable than I thought he was in TA. I mean maybe that's what you have to do in team-up movies because everybody shares screen time, but I don't think there should be too much of a departure from his character between solo projects and the team up movies.

Completely agreed. Loved him in IM when he was jokey and sarcastic but not insulting, whereas since then he's become less likeable and too arrogant with his jokes.

 

[DeadPresident]

Stark talks down to everyone. To the point where tempers flair and Cap tells him to put on the suit. That's how he is in his solo movies. Even to Fury, Natasha, War Machine.

I mean IM2 was essentially an analysis on Tony Stark by Shield and they recognized he wasn't a team player but knew how valuable he could be as a member.

And in the Avengers, his attitude about working as a team led to a fight with Thor and later in the movie realized that he couldn't do it alone even having Cap take the lead.

That's just who Tony is. He has a sarcastic "*****e" sense of humor, doesn't necessarily make him a jerk. It's how he talks to everyone in the MCU. It has nothing to do with some Marvel agenda to downplay the other characters, that's just who the character is. Doesn't mean the film is saying the rest are inferior to Tony either.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not as familiar with the entire MCU as I am other franchises. I just picked up a shift from IM1 Stark where there was a balance between humanizing scenes and sarcastic "*****e" to TA where it seemed like the humanizing elements were few and far between. Again, it might be because it was a team-up movie and they only have screen time for the most prominent parts of a character's personality. In IM1 though I remember 3 distinct scenes where I thought "Ok, Tony Stark is an accessible human being": Scene with Yensin before he leaves the cave, press conference where he talks about his father's doubts, Pepper helping him switch to the new reactor for his chest. Those resonate with me more than any other scene he has with Avengers members or Pepper in other films. It just kind of seems like as the universe has developed the scale has shifted to more God-mode Stark dialogue/scenes and less human Stark scenes. You guys are probably right though, it's unlikely that it's a Marvel agenda or anything, but I'm a sucker for the scenes or pieces of dialogue that relate the character to the audience. I feel like Stark has been lacking those in the recent movies, although IM3 had a decent arc between him and Pepper.

Completely agreed. Loved him in IM when he was jokey and sarcastic but not insulting, whereas since then he's become less likeable and too arrogant with his jokes.

Perhaps that's because it was established in IM1 and it's now taken for granted, and continuing with the more "reserved" and human scenes would've felt like treading old ground. Personally I really like balanced IM1 Tony Stark over TA Tony Stark, it might be subtle nuances though.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Looks like TWS is pulling ahead of X-Men Days of Future Past

 

[BoredGuy]

Hooo-rah
get 'em, Cap

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I was discussing it with someone and they used the exact word I missed "excessive".

Right now that's Wolverine.

Can Iron Man approach that depending on how Cap 3 and Avengers 2 goes? Possibly but as of right now. Iron Man is in one more movie that Cap. Even with cameos.

I still don't feel Marvel is as dependent on Iron Man as X-Men are as on Wolverine.

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I still think Marvel has an easier time of it considering how many other characters they have at their disposal, not to mention the 1st 3 X-Men movies, especially the 1st, came out at a time when CBM's were taboo.

I do like that Fox seems to be branching out in the near future, but as long as Fox keep serving us movies as good as the last 3 X-Men movies they can use Wolverine all they want IMO.

 

[Erzengel]

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I still think Marvel has an easier time of it considering how many other characters they have at their disposal, not to mention the 1st 3 X-Men movies, especially the 1st, came out at a time when CBM's were taboo.

Marvel does have an easier time, but that's not Marvel's fault. Regardless of X-Men came out first, X-Men is still a team first. I'm not sure if people would want to see a Storm, Cyclops, Rogue movie on their own. Wolverine is the most popular X-Men so that's who they go with. But, I'd love to see a movie of just the Original X-Men.

I do like that Fox seems to be branching out in the near future, but as long as Fox keep serving us movies as good as the last 3 X-Men movies they can use Wolverine all they want IMO.

I count Deadpool, X-Men: Apocalypse and Wolverine 3. Wolverine can technically appear in all 3 movies.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Marvel does have an easier time, but that's not Marvel's fault. Regardless of X-Men came out first, X-Men is still a team first. I'm not sure if people would want to see a Storm, Cyclops, Rogue movie on their own. Wolverine is the most popular X-Men so that's who they go with. But, I'd love to see a movie of just the Original X-Men.

I just think its harder for Fox to branch out, of course it is with only one property, no matter how many X-Men characters there are, and every team movie tends to focus more on 1 or 2 characters. TMNT Raphael always gets the spotlight, in the TF movies its Bumblebee and Optimus, in the G.I Joe movies its Snake Eyes, why? Because they are the most popular characters of their respective teams, same as Wolverine.

Even GOTG did it, Rocket was the character that stole the show, and from the start he was the one people were looking forward to seeing most.

Also, not only is Wolverine the most popular character, Hugh Jackman is also the biggest and most well known cast member, so that is going to be a factor too.

I count Deadpool, X-Men: Apocalypse and Wolverine 3. Wolverine can technically appear in all 3 movies.

Again thought, if he is used as he was in TW and DOFP, I really dont mind, and IMO Deadpool will be a cameo at best, while I think he will have big roles in the other 2. Dont forget X-Force and a Gambit movie though, again Wolverine could appear in both but I dont think he will in those 2.

 

[Erzengel]

I just think its harder for Fox to branch out, of course it is with only one property, no matter how many X-Men characters there are, and every team movie tends to focus more on 1 or 2 characters. TMNT Raphael always gets the spotlight, in the TF movies its Bumblebee and Optimus, in the G.I Joe movies its Snake Eyes, why? Because they are the most popular characters of their respective teams, same as Wolverine.

You can always tell a better story. I think Avengers and GOTG did good job spreading around the action.

You had Cap, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor go toe to toe with Loki.

Also in the movie, you had Thor vs. Hulk, Hawkeye vs. Black Widow, Thor vs. Iron Man.

And on to Guardians? I do agree that Rocket stole the show. But you did have Drax vs. Ronan like twice. Nebula vs. Gamora. You also had Starlord vs. Ronan's henchmen.

On the side, Optimus, Bumblebee and Snake Eyes are my favorite characters. Leonardo my favorite TMNT. But tell me how Snake Eyes was over utilized when it was Duke and Marlon Wayans in the 1st movie and the Rock in the second.

Back to the others, I'm already tired of TF but that's just because of the crappy scripts and not because they overuse Optimus and Bumblebee.

And with TMNT, there has only been 1 movie and I haven't seen it. But in the past cartoons and even the other movies I felt that their was a little bit of a balance.

Even GOTG did it, Rocket was the character that stole the show, and from the start he was the one people were looking forward to seeing most.

Also, not only is Wolverine the most popular character, Hugh Jackman is also the biggest and most well known cast member, so that is going to be a factor too.

I would put Hugh Jackman in the Top 5 CB characters come to life, but I know I'm not in a geek minority who wants to see other characters.

Again thought, if he is used as he was in TW and DOFP, I really dont mind, and IMO Deadpool will be a cameo at best, while I think he will have big roles in the other 2. Dont forget X-Force and a Gambit movie though, again Wolverine could appear in both but I dont think he will in those 2.

If they could go back, because of how entrenched these characters are.

You could do a Gambit movie with Rogue, Sinister, Mystique in it.

Just do these character movies with other X-Men supporting cast and have them connect to a larger world.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You can always tell a better story. I think Avengers and GOTG did good job spreading around the action.

You had Cap, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor go toe to toe with Loki.

Also in the movie, you had Thor vs. Hulk, Hawkeye vs. Black Widow, Thor vs. Iron Man.

And on to Guardians? I do agree that Rocket stole the show. But you did have Drax vs. Ronan like twice. Nebula vs. Gamora. You also had Starlord vs. Ronan's henchmen.

On the side, Optimus, Bumblebee and Snake Eyes are my favorite characters. Leonardo my favorite TMNT. But tell me how Snake Eyes was over utilized when it was Duke and Marlon Wayans in the 1st movie and the Rock in the second.

I wouldnt say SE was over-utilised, but he had a lot of focus, we got more back story and development from him over both movies than any other GIJ member, it was clear they knew who the most popular was.

In regards to GOTG, I wouldnt call the 2nd Ronan vs Drax fight, well, a fight, I thought the fights were a bit of a let down in the movie, thankfully everything else was great.

Avengers had a good balance, but Thor seemed to get the shaft a bit, as did Hawkeye, you are always going to get that in any team movie.

Back to the others, I'm already tired of TF but that's just because of the crappy scripts and not because they overuse Optimus and Bumblebee.

And with TMNT, there has only been 1 movie and I haven't seen it. But in the past cartoons and even the other movies I felt that their was a little bit of a balance.

I have always found they focused on Raph in the movies, even in the new one he gets the most focus, I saw it tonight, I enjoyed it, but as a Leo fan myself, he seemed to get the short straw were as Raph got the most focus.

I would put Hugh Jackman in the Top 5 CB characters come to life, but I know I'm not in a geek minority who wants to see other characters.

I want to see other characters too, but again, if they use Wolverine like they have in the last 2 movies, he can have plenty of focus again, if it gets to X3 level, then yeah I will start complaining again.

If they could go back, because of how entrenched these characters are.

You could do a Gambit movie with Rogue, Sinister, Mystique in it.

Just do these character movies with other X-Men supporting cast and have them connect to a larger world.

There are plenty of things they can do, and I think we will see this stuff in the next few X-Movies, Jackman isnt going to last forever as Wolvie.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

Snowpiercer was great until the last act

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Still need to see that.

I am sad to say, I find TWS gets worse on repeat viewings, I definitely think its the worst of the main 3, its still great, but I think the lack of emotion in the ending really brings it down. HOWEVER, I remember this happened with the 1st movie with me, I watched it 5/6 times, and it got worse each time, so I didnt watch it for a while. I saw Avengers, and so watched all the phase 1 movies again, and TFA just clicked with me a lot more for some reason, now I every time I watch it, I really enjoy it, maybe the same will happen with TWS, I certainly hope so.

 

[Erzengel]

Watched it again on vacation. Still the best CBM of the year hands down.

 

[DCW]

Snowpiercer's up on Netflix streaming now. Looking forward to checking it out this weekend.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Anyone know anything about a UK release date for Snowpiercer? Dying to see it!