Comics Official Fans of Reilly Thread

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Well, I feel like an idiot because I got sucked into this sorta flame-war and helped perpetuate it. Anyway, apologies to Wolvie and anyone else who had to scroll past that drivel. And no hard feelings to Won. It's natural for there to be divisions even within this exclusive Reilly fan-club.

Anyway, that having been said... It's hard for Reilly to come back now, but there should atleast be more mentions of him and a new storyline with Kaine would be really welcome. However, if it's possible for Aunt May, Jason Todd, Captain Marvel and even friggin' BUCKY to come back, nobody should count Reilly out just yet. It could be done tastefully, but it would be hard, and like a poster said it should be established that Ben is the clone and that there won't be more tests or any more clones than just Ben and Kaine. Ben would work well on the road again, getting into new adventures in different states every now and then (think the "Hulk" series from the 80's) and a revolving supporting cast. He's different enough from Parker for it not to be derivative, and it could definitely play into the 50 state initiative. The only feasible way I can see Reilly being legitimately resurrected is to have the one who died in PPSM#75 to be another clone and there being a switch between that issue and the ASM issue that preceeded it. The original Reilly could wake from a pod in one of Osborn's labs somewhere. But why Norman would do something like that would be hard to explain. However he did do the switcheroo with Aunt May, so it's not unheard of.

 

[spidey-dude]

Well, I'm not sure how Ben would fit in a post CW universe, especially with the whole world knowing that Pete is spidey. Lets just say, Ben was brought back, life for him would be a disaster from the get go and as for Pete, I can only imagine it'll get worse than already is.

As Ben is a clone, It'll be impossible for him to return. First Pete would have to be cloned yet again and remember, Ben too was his own person. He carved his own identity, going through various experiences, some traumatic and painful, making him who he is. The likelihood of a similar senario is impossible.

I think that, for Ben to return, he'd have to be brought from the past and into the future, thats the only "logical" explanation but I dont see it happening.

no dude we have gone over this looooads of times in this thread, but the fact is only incomplete (already degenerating clones) die in the way ben did, it was pre-established (throught the skeleton of a clone in the smoke stack) that complete clones like ben do not degenrate, even admitted by the editor of spiderman at the time of bens death. and by that logic it could not have been ben who we saw die in revalations

also for me his role in the current marvel universe would solve the "contaversial" married peter parker

I don't want him bought back under the current joey q regime however as we have all seen the brilliant job they have done on spiderman

more than anything I would like the return of kaine

 

[Mr Jide]

what happeed to kaine anyway? I swaer, he just dissapeared.

Anyway, the clone that dies whilst saving Pete was Ben, he's dead through and through.

 

[spidey-dude]

dude thats not how clones die though, and if marvel want to say it is then it means the skeleton in the smokestack was pete and not the remains of a clone of pete and therefore pete is a clone, and marvel defo dont wanna do that, the editor of spiderman at the time had even publicly said that bens death was not how he should have died (the dissolving) yes continuity wise it is ben but the question of how to bring him back is easy through this loophole, thats all I was pointing out

and ye kaine just dissapeared

 

[Mad Bull]

If I recall correctly, that was in issue #2 of Spider-Man: Planet of the Symbiotes.

Much obliged,

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Kaine was last seen rescuin' the baby, and that was it. A danglin' plot-line. And Ben's death wasn't natural fer a complete clone. The editors at the time forced it just to end it. We've had several pitches on how Ben could be brought back tastefully. But I'd rather it be done under a new EIC who would do it with passion an' not fer shock value.

 

[spidey-dude]

defo agree about a change in EIC before a possibility of reilly returning, altho wasnt kaine seen after recusing the "package" in thunderbolts???

scarletspider cameo

its from marvel zombies (I think the one-shot thats due out soon)
http://surebeatsworking.blogspot.com/2007/02/at-last.html

 

[freemadison]

SERIOUSLY!!?!? I don't visit this board for a couple days and I miss a FLAME WAR!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think Ben was awesome, afterall he is spider-man, I hated his scarlet spidey costume but his spider-man costume was awesome! Ben's purpose in this mythos was and has been served. In a way, his death to me, is like his liberation. He was "born" out of malliciousness to cause confusion, distraction and ultimately the break down and ruin of his, "brother" and to an extent he did but at the end, Ben himself made things right, not just for Peter but for himself.
Peter and Ben were a "family" even after it was thought that Pete was the clone and thats when Osborn knew his long term plan was ultimately a waste of time. Ben wasn't a coward but after finding out what he was, a weapon to destroy Peter's mind and spirit, he made the greatest selfless decision that Peter Parker has ever made (afterall he is Peter Parker). He terminated his "meaningless" life by sacrificing himself to save his "brother" who is himself. So, in a way, Ben died to save himself in every sense of the word. Bringing him back would destroy all of that.

That's an interesting way analyze the situation (although we're unsure whether Ben really believes that he's the clone after Osborn tells him, i mean, he has REASON to be suspicious).

I dont think people realise just how profound his character was. Honestly, bringing him back would be just as bad as Norman filling and pumping goblin juice inside the space of Gwen Stacey's legs.

Think about those two sentences for a little bit....

If people don't realize that he's a profound character and he isn't mentioned fondly (or at all!) in memorandum THEN how is it similar to the memory of Gwen Stacy? Gwen Stacy's death is considered a pivotal moment in the entire comics industry and certainly is the most traumatic event in Peter's life behind Uncle Ben's death. Sure i'd love to argue that the events of "Revelations" are just as emotionally relevant to the character and the fan base, but we all know that it isn't even ACKNOWLEDGED.

It would be cool for Ben to be mentioned now and again, his death was sad, tragic, heroic, liberating and redeeming all in one. He is a legend and always will be but bringing him back to life would cripple all of that big time.

Umm....Ben Reilly is the most bastardized character in all of comics. In that way, he is a "legend" of sorts. The Curse of the Bambino was a "legend" too. Didn't mean that Red Sox fans liked it (well...some of the weird ones probably did). The fact that the Red Sox finally won the series doesn't mean that they are less fans than before. The Red Sox weren't "ruined".

Besides, Ben Reilly and the events of his life are not legendary in the way that Uncle Ben, Barry Allen, Bucky, Jason Todd, and (I can't believe i'm gonna say this) Phoenix are (were t.

Last time I checked, Marvel's Dirty Laundry wasn't considered the stuff of legend.

P.S. Yo CK, Venom/Carnage threads ARE que....Weird.

 

[Mr Jide]

Think about those two sentences for a little bit....

If people don't realize that he's a profound character and he isn't mentioned fondly (or at all!) in memorandum THEN how is it similar to the memory of Gwen Stacy? Gwen Stacy's death is considered a pivotal moment in the entire comics industry and certainly is the most traumatic event in Peter's life behind Uncle Ben's death. Sure i'd love to argue that the events of "Revelations" are just as emotionally relevant to the character and the fan base, but we all know that it isn't even ACKNOWLEDGED.

Gwen's character isn't as deep as Reily's thats why they made the crap, sins past. They tried to give Gwen depth and make her character more profound but ended up bastardizing her.
Remembering someone isn't the same as how profound they are. Ben's life was pivotal also, is highly recognised but Norman's ties to the whole clone saga makes Ben's character all the more profound that many people fail to recognise and who can blame them, its not as in your face, its something you've got to think about.

Umm....Ben Reilly is the most bastardized character in all of comics.

Uh no he's not.

In that way, he is a "legend" of sorts. The Curse of the Bambino was a "legend" too. Didn't mean that Red Sox fans liked it (well...some of the weird ones probably did). The fact that the Red Sox finally won the series doesn't mean that they are less fans than before. The Red Sox weren't "ruined".

Ben's character and what he brought as his own person is legendary to the spider-man mythos simply because he made his own mark, did things differently and things that not even peter could do. Give credit to where its due, Ben Reily is a legend.

Besides, Ben Reilly and the events of his life are not legendary in the way that Uncle Ben, Barry Allen, Bucky, Jason Todd, and (I can't believe i'm gonna say this) Phoenix are (were t.

Last time I checked, Marvel's Dirty Laundry wasn't considered the stuff of legend.

I'm not comparing Ben's legendary status to anyone enlses, thats not how you define a legend. I'm merely indicating his contributions, his initial purpose for existing and what he ended up doing with his existence. Like I said, the whole clone saga was overall a load of BS but Ben was one of, if not the only good thing to come out of it.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Umm....Ben Reilly is the most bastardized character in all of comics. .

No, that prize would probably go to Kyle Raynor.

Jason Todd definitely has less fans than Reilly too. The thing about Reilly though, is even though he may have a lot of people who hate him, he also has a lot of people who love him. I wouldn't call him the most bastardized character in comics at all... maybe the most polarizing. More polarizing than Jason Todd and *possibly* even Kyle Raynor, but much more beloved than those two mooks as well.

 

[M@ssEffect]

Two Spider-Men just because people want to know what Peter would be like if he wasn't married? Not many have even considered that Peter and Ben are two entirely different people as far as personality goes. Ben is the rugged, fun loving grunge man on the road who happens to have a scientists mind and his Uncle's heart. He is NOT Spider-Man. Through and through it just wouldn't make sense to see him running around live and well. The idea sickens me truthfully. As cool as he was, it's not Peter and he doesn't deserve to be presented as "The better Parker" for the simple fact that we have the one true Spider-Man, already.

What I -would- like to see, is a Clone in the Movie series. That I can deal with.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

The one true Spidey who unmasked himself an' became Iron Man's *****, right?

Give me Ben any day.

 

[M@ssEffect]

He was blinded by cheap writing. Don't blame him lol

 

[Rez]

I too would love to see a Clone Saga story handled -fairly- faithfully down the line in the movies. A trilogy would obviously be ideal(For the original CS, The Return/Scarlet Spider Era, and then Ben as Spidey and the reveal that we've all been played), but given how fast the movies work I don't see it happening.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

And since ya need Gwen to die as the catalyst.

 

[kguillou]

If Ben was brought back, what could POSSIBLY be the explanation. Lets see "After Ben was impaled by the goblin glider and falling 100 stories off a building, a mysterious character caught him mid-air and replaced him with another clone and that was the clone we saw die?" Hmm, works for me...

 

[Jack O Lantern]

No the explanation would be that the Ben Reilly captured by The Goblin in Part 3 of Revelations is still alive and the Ben Reilly who died in Spider-Man 75 was a clone from the beginning of the isuue.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

I wrote a fan-fic, it was really long and if I find the book I wrote it in, I'll type it up and post it here.

Also, What ever happened to Miles's brother?
I smell Loop-Hole.

 

[kguillou]

Ok, but even THAT explanation's still not credible, so your saying it would be some other clone that just happened to dye his hair blond. Also, when Ben died he said " Take care of my neice". Ben was the only one who knew about Pete's baby, i dont see how some other clone woulda found out about that and decide to make himself look just like Ben Reilly... but that's just my opinion, i know Marvel doesn't care about petty little continuity details.

 

[freemadison]

Ok, but even THAT explanation's still not credible, so your saying it would be some other clone that just happened to dye his hair blond. Also, when Ben died he said " Take care of my neice". Ben was the only one who knew about Pete's baby, i dont see how some other clone woulda found out about that and decide to make himself look just like Ben Reilly... but that's just my opinion, i know Marvel doesn't care about petty little continuity details.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



ok...(deepbreathsdeepbreaths)...

Here's the popular idea among most clone heads:

1. At the end of Part 3 of Revelations, Reilly sees Osborn for the first time and is swiftly defeated.
2. Osborn had prepared a clone with Ben Reilly's memories up to the point when Reilly was knocked out. Keep in mind...these are comic books and memories can supposedly be duplicated with a syringe and the magic of science.
3. It's not very difficult to have dyed the "fake" Ben Reilly's hair in advance (Norman's got plenty of prep time and surveillance), just like it's easy for him to beat the crap out of this same clone and tear a duplicate costume in the process.

Think back to the original Clone Saga in the 70's. Jackal knocks out Peter by scratching him with his drug-tipped claws. When Peter awakens (pay attention here, this part is good), there's another Peter Parker in the EXACT SAME COSTUME saying the EXACT SAME THINGS because they have the EXACT SAME MEMORIES up until that very moment in time. The other clone isn't "faking it". Now if we can suspend disbelief up until that point, then it's very plausible that Norman (the mastermind of the whole debacle in the first place) can do the exact same thing to Ben Reilly and SURPRISE! dye his hair blond.

Here's the sequence of events that Norman would've had to take:

1. Beat the crap out of Ben Reilly. CHECK (Revelation Part 3)
2. Do the same process that Miles Warren performed on Peter in order to copy Ben's memories and place them in a fully grown, Peter Parker clone.
3. Hire top of the line hairdressers to dye the clone's hair blonde. P.S. Norman has a loooooong time to plan this.
4. Hire top of the line seamstresses to sew a duplicate Ben Reilly Spider-Man costume (or even better, take the "real" Ben's costume and put it on the "fake". It's not like the real Ben will need it where he's going)
5. Put the real Ben in a cryogenic sci-fi-ish tube that will keep him alive and unable to escape. You know...those tubes those clones keep getting put in or coming out of.
6. Take the new Peter Parker clone, with blonde hair, costume, and all and WAIL on him while outlining how you're gonna blow up the Bugle and how he's a clone. CHECK (the extra PPSM 75 pages found only on the Revelations TPB and earlier in this thread)
7. Kill him in the same manner that you would've killed Ben Reilly in the first place.

You know if you think about it. Norman could've killed Peter Parker a MILLION times over. He's had him knocked out, driven insane etc.. but for Norman it's about the "dance". And when he wants to kill Parker, he wants to do it on his own terms and in the perfect way. He doesn't romanticize his battle with Reilly the way he does with Parker. Osborn considers Reilly a "shadow" and a bug he could easily squash and a pawn to be possessed. So it would make perfect sense for Osborn to do both. By making "another" Ben Reilly he can kill Peter's brother in front of Peter and still keep the "real" Ben Reilly to use as a pawn to relentlessly torture Peter with in the future.

Voila. The definitive post of how to bring back Ben Reilly reasonably.

i know Marvel doesn't care about petty little continuity details.

it's true, but it's the kettle calling the pot black dontcha think? no offense of course.

 

[spidey-dude]

brilliant freemad, just one thing you forgot to tell him (i think) that complete clones don't degenerate the way ben reilly died in revalations, anyway I hink these sort of posts make up 50% of my post count

 

[uchiha_itachi]

they really could easily bring him back specially with ideas like tht, they just need to get it done already, surely they must know the demand for reilys return

 

[Mr Jide]

No the explanation would be that the Ben Reilly captured by The Goblin in Part 3 of Revelations is still alive and the Ben Reilly who died in Spider-Man 75 was a clone from the beginning of the isuue.

Lets not go there.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

No, let's. They ****ed it up just to get it over with, so we're gonna take full advantage of their sloppy storytellin'.

 

[freemadison]

brilliant freemad, just one thing you forgot to tell him (i think) that complete clones don't degenerate the way ben reilly died in revalations

I'm so sick of repeating that fact over and over that i feel like it should be assumed. The people who don't want to accept that fact are the ones who are vehemently opposed to a Ben Reilly return. But their opinion here doesn't matter because it is a FACT. A dead clone melting is unprecedented and is actually acknowledged by the creators as being a necessary mistake.

No, let's. They ****ed it up just to get it over with, so we're gonna take full advantage of their sloppy storytellin'.

Exactly.

anyway I hink these sort of posts make up 50% of my post count

Dude, same here. I must have typed "dead clones don't degenerate" at least 100 times.