World Official Green Goblin Appreciation Thread

[Spider-ManHero12]

Here's what happens when you run renegade on Thunderbolt mountain when Norman Osborn is in charge:

A fantastic moment from a great issue. The Goblin was pure brutal in that issue.

 

[greedyslayer]

Thanks the the wonders of the Internet, I've seen all of Spectacular Spider-Man season 2 (why can't it air at the same time everywhere?).

WOW.

This season is very good to the Green Goblin (and everyone, actually).

Spoiler

I'm so glad Norman was the Green Goblin the whole time. But I'm really glad though that the main theory did pan out, they managed to keep us guessing with Menken, etc., and I heart the "*gasp* could it be mom?!" joke, I'm pretty sure that was teasing all the crazy theories on the Internet besides the plausible Norman one.

Oh Harry, you were awesome too--piloting the helicopter, using it to contribute to the fight momentarily (hee, he's now flyboy in my head, and nice hint of prep for if he does end up becoming the Goblin while Daddy Dearest is off licking his wounds), and the art of his expression and the VA's performance make his "Dad!" absolutely heart-wrenching. And I'm actually ok with Harry being manipulative with Gwen--kid's real messed up by now, and I can actually see him concentrating his anger and grief into a conscious manipulation (yes, I again wondering, "wait, is Harry even up for such a scheme," than quibbling over the moral issues with the deception, which were obvious to begin with) And Norman continues being a bastard by letting Harry think he's dead--but I'm so glad we at least know he's alive. Leaving the mystery behind whether or not he survived that or not would've been a good cliffhanger in a way, but I personally prefer that they let us know, 'cause I was real worried they actually killed him off there. I dunno, huge explosion like that looked more lethal than being skewered on the glider. Speaking of which, I like how they also did a twist on the "death"--though come to think of it, skewering would probably be too brutal to get away with on a kid's show. The explosion is the subtle brutality that can sneak in the kid's show--it's a real unique surprise and my breathe caught at it.

Also, I was hoping for something like this, but I can't believe they actually did it, and way better than what I was thinking of: we see Norman practically break Harry's leg for his cover-up. That's a real dark depiction of such child abuse on a "kid's show."

Of course, Norman's totally believable pride in Harry taking the initiative with the helicopter. (And this also felt genuinely like Norman's twisted parental love, his statement of "making things right" afterwards--of course, plans change.)

Norman/Green Goblin, I love you, and I can't wait for the season DVD sets.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

What issue is that Swordsman death from?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Secret Invasion: Dark Reign #1

 

[Hobgoblin]

Well, I finally saw The Final Curtain.

Ooooh, Harry's mind is going to snap so hard when he finds out Peter is Spider-Man you'll actually be able to hear it! t:

He is turning out just fine in Goblin mind games. Love the finaly scene at the cemetery where he asks Gwen what she wanted to tell him. His smirk was priceless. I wonder if Harry will be the one to kill Gwen (or find some way to endanger her life) instead of Norman. That would certainly be a knife in Peter's heart. Having your friends father kill your girlfriend is bad enough, how much worse if your friend does it themselves?

 

[The Joker]

Ok, top five Green Goblin stories. Lets hear 'em. Mine are:

1. The Death of Gwen Stacy. Honestly does this one even need an explanation?

2. Norman dons the Goblin costume again in Thunderbolt mountain. Not the biggest Green Goblin story ever, but a bloody entertaining one. Norman had been haunted by images of the Goblin for ages prior to this. Then he finally snaps after Swordsman runs renegade, and puts his old duds back on, and goes and kicks some ass. Even blowing up his own security guards. "Sigh, I really did hire some dumb security guards. Ah well, I guess I'll have to do this myself. I have to do everything myself".

3. Spidey and the Goblin unmasked. Great double whammy, as we learn who the Goblin is at long last and what made him turn out the way he is.

4. Death of Harry Osborn in SSM #200. Another one that needs no explanation. Great emotional send off for a great character. Marvel just couldn't resist ruining it though

5. Revelations. He's baaaaaaaack!!!

 

[Hobgoblin]

Did you get Revelations already, Joker? What did you think? The full splash page of Norman finally back in full Goblin attire still makes me smile after all these years.

1. Revelations. I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Norman comes to clean house and does it in short order. Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75 will always be my proof that the Green Goblin is Spider-Man's greatest enemy. Over the years, he hired the Jackal, the Hobgoblin, Scrier, Judas Traveler and Gaunt to torment the bug but none of them managed to do the damage that Norman did in just a few hours time.

2. The Death of Gwen Stacy. Listen to the anguish in Parker's voice as he swears revenge on Osborn. How often do you ever see him in such a rage? No premature egloatalation ( ) on Osborn's part as he slowly circled the bridges support tower. He was absolutely reveling in his enemy's agony. Take a victory lap, Gobby. You earned it.

3. The Death of Harry Osborn. I love every damn thing about this issue. The emotional torment that both Harry and Peter go through as they slide toward the inevitable showdown. Even Harry, at times, gives the sense that he really doesnt want to do this. The weight of the years weighs on him, both in terms of his friendship to Peter and his hatred of Spider-Man. Its all very satisfying as Spider-Man and the Green Goblin silently beat each other bloody. Yet, even then, there are sparks of the old friendship.

4. The Child Within. DeMatties was born to write Harry Osborn. If Harry's death is the big finale, then the Child Within is the suspenseful buildup. The death doesnt work if you arent invested in the character. You cant help but feel for Harry: a grown man, beautiful wife, young son and rich as you want. But. He is still haunted by his father's death. Maybe even more so by his father's life. He would trade all of it for the chance to end Norman's mocking voice.

5. Cycles and Circles. A little talked about story, but a powerful, human one from Spectacular Spider-Man Annual 14. After Harry "dies," Peter is angry and bitter. He checks on Liz and Normie, to see Liz has started drinking. He is sympathetic but wants nothing more to do with the Osborns. A chance encounter with an old Goblin hideout lets Peter see things from Harry's point of view and he learns the long, sad history of life in the Osborn home. His dilemma is: What is he going to do about it?

These are the stories I want Marvel to write. Human stories, with real life consequences.

 

[The Joker]

Did you get Revelations already, Joker? What did you think? The full splash page of Norman finally back in full Goblin attire still makes me smile after all these years.

I loved it. Along with Web of Death, it was the real highlight of the awful Clone Saga. Norman settled many scores in this story. T'was fantastic.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I loved it. Along with Web of Death, it was the real highlight of the awful Clone Saga. Norman settled many scores in this story. T'was fantastic.

Yes. Yes it was. t:

 

[greedyslayer]

Was Reilly's Spider-Sense numbed or something? Is that how he took a glider straight in the back?

BTW, my humble opinion on Top 5 Green Goblin stories so far, though I haven't looked through some of the better well-known ones yet (i.e. Harry's Death, Revelations):

1. Spectacular Spider-Man Animated Series' arc
-Animation is my first love, so something with this great movement, as well as superb storytelling and voice acting really does make this first place for me.
2. A Death in the Family
-Whether you hated or liked the art (I know most hate it, but I found the exaggeration of the Goblin kinda charming), the story was incredible, I felt. And after reading The Killing Joke, I understand where people see the huge similarities and accuse them of "blatant rip-off"--but still, the scene works for their particular relationship, and I still love it to bits. (On Norman vs. Peter and Joker vs. Batman--Norman and Peter hate all sides of each other, while Joker is only Joker, and Batman is frankly just Batman. Still, both are very complicated relationships.)
3. Trick of the Light (Peter Parker Spider-Man #25)
-The one where Norman tries to get Peter on his side, but Peter rejects him--though like any encounter between them, no one's unscathed.
4. Marvel Knights arc (#1-12)
-I still want to get the hardcover collecting all the issues. That was EPIC. (Though I still wish a cover hadn't been so misleading--I was all excited over a Peter-Norman team-up in an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario. Which never happened of course, but I still hold up that it eventually will.)
5. The Good Son (Marvel Adventures Spider-Man)
-Because it's goofy and fun and a nice fantasy of Harry finally starting a happy ending that'll stick.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Spoiler

Ben intentionally threw himself in front of the glider to protect Peter.

I contemplated including "Shush" (MK:SM 1-12) in my top 5 list, but I figured that Cycles and Circles was the better choice. I still include Shush as an honorable mention. Also in that list: Spider-Hunt, Legacy of Evil, The Goblin and the Gangsters (ASM 23).

 

[greedyslayer]

Speaking of Circles and Cycles, after your review of it, I really want to read it now. Do you know if it's collected in a graphic novel?

I'm very fond of the MK's 1-12 "Shush" nickname. Though, after considering Batman's Hush more, looking at some reviews and observations, though I've failed to actually read it in full

Spoiler

I think Spider-Man's Shush works way better than Hush, in that at least they don't develop a mystery around a new villain, while at the same time introducing a new supporting character for Bruce, and try to hide that the new supporting character is obviously the new villain.

But, forget Batman. Also, I never completely understood people's complaints of "WHY is it always Norman!?" It's because he's Spider-Man's archenemy! Who loves tormenting him! Still, comics could do with giving him a break once in a while; but if there's a story that makes sense for him, I can't see them avoiding it, even if it results in rather overusing the Goblin.

Also...couldn't Reilly have pushed Peter out of the way? (Though even as I type this, I realize this is the million-dollar question for a bunch of 'heroic sacrifice' scenes in different stories.)

 

[Hobgoblin]

Speaking of Circles and Cycles, after your review of it, I really want to read it now. Do you know if it's collected in a graphic novel?

Not that I know of. My guess, if it is in a collected edition, would be the Son of the Goblin TPB. I dont believe it is there, though. I would just order it online. Its not overly action packed but its an interesting read.

I'm very fond of the MK's 1-12 "Shush" nickname. Though, after considering Batman's Hush more, looking at some reviews and observations, though I've failed to actually read it in full

Spoiler

I think Spider-Man's Shush works way better than Hush, in that at least they don't develop a mystery around a new villain, while at the same time introducing a new supporting character for Bruce, and try to hide that the new supporting character is obviously the new villain.

But, forget Batman.

I liked Hush a lot. The numerous similarities between the two stories are obvious but both are enjoyable.

Also, I never completely understood people's complaints of "WHY is it always Norman!?" It's because he's Spider-Man's archenemy! Who loves tormenting him! Still, comics could do with giving him a break once in a while; but if there's a story that makes sense for him, I can't see them avoiding it, even if it results in rather overusing the Goblin.

I can understand the criticism but I think its unfair. I actually prefer the "modern" Goblin over the stories from the 1970's. However, one thing the "old" Goblin has over the modern one is that when he attacked, he would come out of nowhere. You could almost hear Spidey humming along to himself, not a care in the world, and then Gobby comes out of nowhere and beats the hell out of him. Then he disappears as suddenly as he came, not to be seen again for months. As you said, now its almost predictable that Norman will be the one behind whatever scheme is going on. There are certainly other bad guys that can manipulate Peter's life. Chameleon, Doctor Octopus, Hobgoblin, Kingpin, etc.

Also...couldn't Reilly have pushed Peter out of the way? (Though even as I type this, I realize this is the million-dollar question for a bunch of 'heroic sacrifice' scenes in different stories.)

Sure, but he had to die.

 

[greedyslayer]

Action's cool, but I like any interesting reads, especially character introspection/psychological stuff.

One more thing on Bats: Hush has potential. I really like the visual of him. And the last story with Paul Dini (was that his last one), was pretty cool. A lot of Bat fans I've seen harp about his lack of motivation (and even if they gave him something chaos/random-flavored like the Joker...that's still the Joker's thing, it's repetitive then), and Dini's work seems to have done something to fix that. And the accompanying art was neat.

Anyway, back to the Green Goblin.

I can understand the criticism but I think its unfair. I actually prefer the "modern" Goblin over the stories from the 1970's. However, one thing the "old" Goblin has over the modern one is that when he attacked, he would come out of nowhere. You could almost hear Spidey humming along to himself, not a care in the world, and then Gobby comes out of nowhere and beats the hell out of him. Then he disappears as suddenly as he came, not to be seen again for months. As you said, now its almost predictable that Norman will be the one behind whatever scheme is going on. There are certainly other bad guys that can manipulate Peter's life. Chameleon, Doctor Octopus, Hobgoblin, Kingpin, etc.

Since I really got to know the Green Goblin first in his modern incarnation, I think I'm more attached to him to. But your description of early Goblin as this violent Wild Card ("hmm, haven't kicked the Wallcrawler's/Peter's ass in a while, better get to it") sounds like a lot of fun.

Those are all great alternative villains you mentioned to siphon off all the attention on Norman, but the likes of Ock, Hobgoblin, and Kingpin should still be with just Spidey. I mean, they scheme this huge sprawling plans and Peter gets caught up in them as Spider-Man, but it should rarely be them messing with Peter personally, since that is still Norman's territory--he should be one of the few knowing Spidey's identity, hate both sides of the man (masked and unmasked), and when he fights with Peter, it just has to be real...personal, all about tormenting him.

Hmm...was it mentioned earlier a concern over Norman forgetting his roots and paying less attention to Spider-Man? I know I read before on spideykicksbutt that it would be good to broaden his horizons and give him other people to screw with and non-Spider-Man-related plans...but the comics may be going just a bit too far. There should be a balance between Spider obsession and being a thorn in others' sides, or at least remember that his Spidey's archenemy, and he lives to torment the insect.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Since I really got to know the Green Goblin first in his modern incarnation, I think I'm more attached to him to. But your description of early Goblin as this violent Wild Card ("hmm, haven't kicked the Wallcrawler's/Peter's ass in a while, better get to it") sounds like a lot of fun.

Loose cannon. Thats exactly right. He had plans but he was a little too crazy to see them out, he let his temper or emotions get the better of him. He terrified Peter to no end.

Those are all great alternative villains you mentioned to siphon off all the attention on Norman, but the likes of Ock, Hobgoblin, and Kingpin should still be with just Spidey. I mean, they scheme this huge sprawling plans and Peter gets caught up in them as Spider-Man, but it should rarely be them messing with Peter personally, since that is still Norman's territory--he should be one of the few knowing Spidey's identity, hate both sides of the man (masked and unmasked), and when he fights with Peter, it just has to be real...personal, all about tormenting him.

Agreed. I didnt mean they should know who Spidey really was, just that they could manipulate the hell out of Spider-Man. Peter is Norman's alone to play with, like a cat plays with a mouse.

Hmm...was it mentioned earlier a concern over Norman forgetting his roots and paying less attention to Spider-Man? I know I read before on spideykicksbutt that it would be good to broaden his horizons and give him other people to screw with and non-Spider-Man-related plans...but the comics may be going just a bit too far. There should be a balance between Spider obsession and being a thorn in others' sides, or at least remember that his Spidey's archenemy, and he lives to torment the insect.

Hopefully, Peter will always be Norman's number one priority. But yes, it could get to be repetitive reading. If Norman were to strike up a rivalry with Iron Man, that could be interesting. I still hate the fact that Norman doesnt know who Peter is anymore.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

This was posted in the Doc Ock thread but I had to do one with the Goblin, he is my favorite villain!t:

http://roxik.com/pictaps/?pid=a2036524

Oh and I posted this on the Doc Ock thread so I'll do it with Gobby too.
Favorite Gobby episode from Spectacular Spider-Man series?

Catalysts?
The Uncertainty Principle?
Subtext?
Opening Night?
Final Curtain?

Final Curtain for me!

 

[Silver Spider]

1. Final Curtain
2. The Uncertainty Principle
3. Opening Night
4. Subtext
5. Catalysts

 

[Hobgoblin]

I dont remember all of them all that clearly but I liked Catalysts, The Uncertainty Principle and Final Curtain.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

This was posted in the Doc Ock thread but I had to do one with the Goblin, he is my favorite villain!t:

http://roxik.com/pictaps/?pid=a2036524

Oh and I posted this on the Doc Ock thread so I'll do it with Gobby too.
Favorite Gobby episode from Spectacular Spider-Man series?

Catalysts?
The Uncertainty Principle?
Subtext?
Opening Night?
Final Curtain?

Final Curtain for me!

Catalyst and Uncertainty Principle for me. Mostly due to the fact I haven't seen season 2 cause it hasn't aired here yet. But I like how it introduces Gobby and keeps a bit true to the comics, then takes us for a whirl when they show its Harry. I loved that.

 

[greedyslayer]

1. Final Curtain ('cause it's so fresh in my mind)
2. Catalysts (really awesome intro for him)
3. Uncertainty Principle (fight/characterization scenes, though the Harry reveal real screwed with my head)
4. Opening Night (the rhyming was actually really amusing)
5. Subtext (wiping the floor with all those goons in the bar)

The wiki entry on Norman brought up an interesting idea that hadn't exactly occurred to me before:

"Norman eventually accepts the darkness and it is very likely that he eventually chooses the guise of the Green Goblin to strike fear in his enemies in the same way he was terrified by the 'green, goblin-like' creature of his childhood."

 

[Mutagen]

Just like Batman Begins.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Thats true. The mark of a good character is their psychological depth, imo.

 

[greedyslayer]

It is very Batman; two of my favorite things.

For me, psychological depth is definitely one of my favorite things to look for, and I find Norman/Green Goblin very psychologically complex.

I like the glimpses we get of Norman critiquing the ridiculousness of supervillainy/superheroism. Like here:

"Oh, you think you're so high and mighty...but we're both just a couple of borderline personalities dressed in ridiculous costumes, acting out our power fantasies. The difference between us is that I've always been willing to admit it." (He's talking to the Web-Head here of course.)

And then an actual joke of it here, again addressing Peter:

"I wasn't always going to be the Green Goblin. When I first started out, I was going to call myself 'Mister Coffee.' God...can you imagine how weird the last few years would've been if I'd done that?"

t: Norman should be allowed to be funny more often.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I normally dont like Norman to be funny, it just seems out of character. But that one didnt bother me. And I love that quote about the borderline personalities. Sometimes I do think the bad guys are more honest than the heroes.

 

[The Joker]

I normally dont like Norman to be funny, it just seems out of character.

Even when it's evil wit kind of funny?

"You didn't have a mother. A pig coughed and you fell out"