Discussion in 'The Comics' started by Canemacar, May 10, 2007.
Go ahead and knock yourself out, Darth. t:
Wolvie owns when correctly portrayed as an angry midget/obnoxious runt rather than a Marty-Stu extraordinaire. t:
Not that I actually would sum up the character as just that, but I just couldn't resist. t:
Here's his original thread
Well seeing as how the last post there was in september of last year...
I just read the latest issue of Origins and was struck by the portrayal of an adult Sabretooth being alive in 1918. While it doesn't back up the idea of him being Dog (even though I would have liked that) it blows out of the water the early childhood memories he head of being chained in the basement and forced by his parents to kill for his own food. I had figured those memories were Weapon X implants like most of Logan's anyhow. It would be cool if theywent back and told us some more about him, even if they do it in the regular Wolverine book. They are covering the Lupine anyhow...
That does sound interesting. Although I wish you would devulge more info about the latest revelation. I only buy the 'Wolverine' book and I like the current arc. But I'll have to check out the latest issue of Origins next time I go to the shop.
Origins isn't the best series, but right now they are dredging up stuff from his past. Cyber is guest starring and they are saying that Sabes showed up in Cybers past, in 1918, a date that caught my interest. There are many folks who said Sabes just wasn't that old, something I never did buy.
Another neglected thread, this one on Origins:
Some more here:
...Wolverine sucks and needs to be chained up in Marvel's backyard for a decade or so when his overexposure dies down enough that real comic fans can stomach him again.
Did anyone else hear the Hugh Jackman is shooting a pilot for Fox? That's not Marvel-related?
I haven't heard that no.
Logan's over exposure had calmed down quite a bit now that he is in much fewer books. He is only in one X-book right now besides his ongoings. It makes him easier to avoid if you're not a fan.
Come on now, lets calm down a bit. Wolverine does not suck - he is a very cool character that is a bit overused. Wolverine is just a great charcter - period.
He's the only X-man to sustain his own book. He's had an ongoing since 1988. If he honestly sucked, they would have cancelled it long ago.
^Lets see X-Men titles, solo book, New Avengers, always fighting the Hulk - cant be that bad.
You just described why non-Wolverine fans can't stand him. He's still everywhere.
^ I know, thats why I said it. Trust me, those of us who really like Logan hate him in everything also. I can not believe that he is still in New Avengers.....ugh.
Just read the latest issue and so far I am still loving it. Of course Loeb has no regard for prior continuity -- since when is Wild Child that old? I mean they did his origin in X-Factor with Spike unless that was all a lie... But still so far the story has me intrigued. Can't wait to see how it ends.
^Yeah its got me curious also. Really like the arc though.
Okay, I'm going to make my one post and hopefully you'll never see me in this thread again. Here are the reasons I don't like Wolverine, the main ones off the top of my head anyway.
Obviously, the overexposure is disgusting, especially to someone who doesn't like him. I'm glad Whedon has toned him down to a manageable level. Heck, I don't even have a problem with the Logan in AXM. But I'm a Spidey fan as well, and I can't even read New Avengers because he's been relegated to a background character while Logan once more shines in the spotlight.
He's written as being far more powerful than he is. What I mean by that is several things. First is the healing factor, which has just gotten completely out of hand. Logan should be dead by now, plain and simple. And it gets tiresome watching him get hurt over and over just to instantly heal right back up. Another is his actual strength. Logan is always shown as being able to cut through anything that gets in his way. The adamantium makes him a bit stronger, but not that strong. I believe he was rated at 800 pounds last I saw, but it doesn't really matter. To cut through really hard materials, you don't just need a really sharp, strong object, you need sufficient strength as well. Logan doesn't have it. Give a child a knife and see what he or she can and can't cut through. On second thought, don't.
The final major issue I have with the character, and what initially caused me to dislike him, is his apparent attractiveness to almost every female in the MU. I grew up a JOTT fan, and it disgusted me that Jean could be attracted to this hairy little runt when she was supposed to be in love with Scott. As if that wasn't bad enough, apparently Marvel decided Logan has a fetish for redheads and spent a little time trying for Mary Jane Parker, wife of Spider-Man. Apparently Logan doesn't have any problem with going after the wives of his teammates as long as they're redheaded and attractive. Kind of shows what a hypocrite he is with that whole honor thing.
I'm sure I could think of some smaller things that I don't like about the guy if I wanted, and I didn't even touch on Movieverse, but I'll turn this back over to the people who actually like the guy unless my points are directly addressed. Just wanted to get my 2 cents in. t:
^Now if you post and run you will never see what others think about what you think you think even though you might not want to know what we think we think.
But I pretty much disagree with most of what you have written - but you do have some good points. Bottom line is Logan is a great character - MU has jacked him up a bit throught the years and have sucked every last drop to get the cash from him - but that can not be helped. Wolverine is a great character on his own, away from any team and away from any "race". Different writers will put a different spin on ANY character - and trust me, Logan has gone through MANY MANY writers.
I never said I'd post and run, I said I'd post and reply to any comments that were made about what I said. I just don't figure I'll spoil your fun too much by badgering you about Wolverine's flaws overly much. And trust me, he has them. A lot of them. All of our favorite characters do. It's just a matter of which ones we can tolerate, and which ones we find interesting.
And all of the X-Men have had numerous writers, not just Wolverine, but the fact is that Marvel has turned Logan into a completely different character than what he debuted as. It's a long road going from a mutated wolverine to an unstoppable ladies' man/bad boy/killing machine/invincible god.
Wolverine didn't really try to get with MJ, IIRC. He just flirted with her to get a rise out of Spidey.
Logan's first response upon seeing MJ, in ASM, was something along the lines of, "What's a babe like her doin' with a geek like you?" Kind of the same attitude he has/had toward the Jean/Scott relationship, just replace 'geek' with '[email protected]$$'. We all know how that went.
Next encounter was during that terrible arc in MK: Spider-Man. Peter comes home to Stark Tower to find Logan hanging out with his wife, staring at her with a smirk on his face. The conversation goes something like this:
PP: Oh nothing...except I get home from work and find Avengers hanging out in my home like it's a singles' bar!
L: You're out of line there, bub. I don't do that.
PP: Oh, yeah? Can Scott Summers confirm that for me?
That's gotta be one of my most-loved comebacks of all times.t:
In the next issue, during a training exercise, Wolverine 'accidentally' stabs Peter in the gut. Never mind that Peter is faster, more agile, and has a danger sense, Logan is just that good. But back on topic, I'm not saying that Logan was necessarily trying to kill Peter, but these are two guys that have fought before and Logan has clearly expressed an interest in MJ at this point. And unlike Scott, Peter refused to sit by and take it, so how did Wolvey react? With violence, the only way I've ever seen him do so.
There were some other incidents, most notably when MJ was caught sneaking into Stark Tower and Wolverine made the mistake of bad-mouthing her to Peter. For that, he was punched through an 'unbreakable' glass window. The most notable one would be during "The Other" storyline, where Logan asks MJ out after Peter dies as a way of giving her a place to channel her anger and grief. Again, you suddenly have this 'honor' that is totally out of place compared to his past actions.
Okay, I'll let you guys (and girls) get back to your Wolverine-centric talk now. I wouldn't want to hijack his thread.
Brand, you are welcome to post here anytime. I agree with you about the strength needed for cutting. There was an early scene where Logan was leaning out of a car window to slash the tires of another. Yes, he would have the sharpness to cut, but I still believe the rotation of the turning tire would have ripped his arm right out of the socket. This would be especially true when he had just the bone claws, yet the authors had him cut through stuff just as well. It's good I am forgiving, these things have not made me like him any less.
^But with his adamantium bones, they would not have ripped out, would they? Must hurt something bad though........
Yes, that should have caused him a lot of pain. The adamantium would have protected the 'bones' (and I preferred it when the claws were just implants from Weapon-X) but they would still have hurt quite a bit.
One example I can think of off the top of my head is all the times Logan has cut through a Sentinel. Now obviously, those metallic behemoths must be made of some pretty strong metals to support that weight. Logan is stronger than the average human, but not by all that much. Now try to imagine this scenario. Say you have a really sharp knife that absolutely will not break, no matter how hard you hit it. And you take this knife and swing it as hard as you can against a big piece of steel. Would you cut through the steel? No, you wouldn't. But how is your hand going to feel? Good luck keeping your grip on the knife. t:
I'm loving Loeb's work on Wolverine too. You, photojones2, and I are probably the only three people on these forums who are. Haha.
I wouldn't say Loeb has no regard for prior continuity, though. It might seem as such, but without the entire story being complete, it's not a fair statement to make. Being that this new Wild Child memory just cropped up, it's entirely possible that it never happened and is being triggered by whatever's going on. if it -is- real, and Creed forgetting stuff is real, and Logan forgetting everything is real, and Logan's "real"/new memories are popping up... then it makes Wild Child's origin in X-Factor fair game to be erased, as his stuff would have been faked as well.
Next issue's going to be a blast.
Metal bones do not metal joints make. The soft tissues and ligaments would tear quite nicely with no damage to the bones themselves. This is a common misconception. Logan's head can be severed by disjointing the spine. In fact it was specifically mentioned in the Xavier protocols on how to kill logan -- sever the head and keep it away from his body so it could not reattatch itself.