Okay......... Bob Kane

[Ibn]

Alright, from previous thread experience I've come to find the hate for Bob Kane at an all time high. I understand that Bill Finger contributed to the creation of the character. Could someone please tell me exactly what he did for the character? What did he do that Kane didn't? Also, didn't Bob Kane create all the classic villains (Joker, Catwoman, Two Face, etc.)? And if so, why is there still this venomous hate towards him if he, in fact, did create the majority of the character and universe? Also, can somebody please refer to me some good Bill Finger stories? Would there by chance be a Bill Finger collection out there? Much Appreciated.

 

[Motown Marvel]

this page has pretty much everything you need to nkow about the situation:
http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm

the short end of it though....bob kane came up with a drawing of a character that he named batman. he wore red and grey, and had a domino mask (like robin's mask). thats all bob had. no story, so supporting cast, just a drawing named batman. he took that to bill, bill suggested many changes to the cotume, which resulted in, more or less, the costume that batman wears today. then it was bill finger who came up with the whole story for batman and all the supporting characters and villians.

 

[BatScot]

Raise the Finger!

 

[Nightwing 52]

Alright, from previous thread experience I've come to find the hate for Bob Kane at an all time high. I understand that Bill Finger contributed to the creation of the character. Could someone please tell me exactly what he did for the character?

Finger was the one who came up with the idea of putting "the cowl" for the suit. Originally, he had a domino mask and wings. Which is why Finger referred to some of Da Vinci's work and recommended to Kane that he used the cowl look. Along with adding the ears to it, and the cape instead of wings. Finger was also the one to suggest having Batman's eyes left out when he wore the mask.

Kane and Finger were the ones who remodeled The Joker. It was Jerry Robinson who came up with the name "Robin" that also outlined the character for them.

 

[batmaluco]

if you’re ever in a situation where you’re worried that you’re not getting proper credit for what you’re doing, you can say to your editor, ‘Hey, I’m feeling like Bill Finger over here. And I don’t want to get Fingered.’ And they’ll understand. Everybody gets it. I guarantee it."

LOL!
Raise the Finger!

 

[Ibn]

this page has pretty much everything you need to nkow about the situation:
http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm

the short end of it though....bob kane came up with a drawing of a character that he named batman. he wore red and grey, and had a domino mask (like robin's mask). thats all bob had. no story, so supporting cast, just a drawing named batman. he took that to bill, bill suggested many changes to the cotume, which resulted in, more or less, the costume that batman wears today. then it was bill finger who came up with the whole story for batman and all the supporting characters and villians.

Wow. Thanks man. Bill Finger got about a thumbs worth of recognition on the Batman special edition. So, in actuality, Kane did create Batman, but Bill Finger MADE Batman. That absolutely sucks. If I ever get the opportunity to do a Batman project, I'll make sure it reads "Created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane".

 

[Joker]

actually, no you wont...if you do that Bob Kanes family will sue your ass because he was a greedy bastard and had it put in his contract that no one but him will ever recieve credit for creating Batman

 

[Motown Marvel]

Wow. Thanks man. Bill Finger got about a thumbs worth of recognition on the Batman special edition. So, in actuality, Kane did create Batman, but Bill Finger MADE Batman. That absolutely sucks. If I ever get the opportunity to do a Batman project, I'll make sure it reads "Created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane".

yeah, uh, that'd be illegal. DC would never let it happen because, like joker said, the kane estate would sue the s#!t outta them. the closest i've seen anyone do was : batman created by bob kane, with special thanks to bill finger. they were able to get away with that, i dont know why they do that in all batman books.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I think DC can find a loop hole if they wanted.

Fine, have the byline for Kane.........but they could credit the rest, Gotham City, etc.......to Finger.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I think DC can find a loop hole if they wanted.

if they could have found a loophole, they would have done it by now. we're talking about high paid corporate lawyers that work for DC going up against a small family estate with limited funds for lawyers. like i said before, the closest i've seen to giving finger credit without overstepping their legal bounds was the "with special thanks to bill finger".

Fine, have the byline for Kane.........but they could credit the rest, Gotham City, etc.......to Finger.

no they couldnt.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Kane didn't engineer anything to keep Finger out. People need to do a little research. Because Kane alreayd submitted the character to DC BEFORE Finger made the redesign and came up with the story/etc... Kane was the only one that got credit. That's how things worked in those days.

Kane wasn't the nicest guy, and people forget that around 1989, he lightened up and in his autobiography, he gives Finger the credit he deserves. But he didn't attempt to cut Finger out of the loop, DC did that. And sadly, Finger just let it happen, he never bothered trying to get any credit, so he's not quite the victim people make him out to be.

Honestly, people take things too far, either figuring that Kane was some kind of king *******, or going so far as the thinking Kane deserves no credit and his bones should be pissed on. Get real, people.

 

[Motown Marvel]

true, how things worked back in the day figured into bill getting the short end of the stick, not all blame should be put on kane. but if kane really wanted to make it up to finger and truly recognize the fact that he too deserved credit, he would have taken the proper legal action to allow such credit to be given, which he easily could have done. i dont say this to make kane out to be the villian, because he should certainly be respected and credited for taking a signifigant role in what resulted in one of the greatest fictional characters of all time. but still....

also, finger wasnt the type of man to go begging for credit, which may very well have been a mistake on his part, but he shouldnt have to be begging for it in the first place. and because he was never given the appropriate credit, he died penniless.

 

[Ibn]

Kane didn't engineer anything to keep Finger out. People need to do a little research. Because Kane alreayd submitted the character to DC BEFORE Finger made the redesign and came up with the story/etc... Kane was the only one that got credit. That's how things worked in those days.

Kane wasn't the nicest guy, and people forget that around 1989, he lightened up and in his autobiography, he gives Finger the credit he deserves. But he didn't attempt to cut Finger out of the loop, DC did that. And sadly, Finger just let it happen, he never bothered trying to get any credit, so he's not quite the victim people make him out to be.

Honestly, people take things too far, either figuring that Kane was some kind of king *******, or going so far as the thinking Kane deserves no credit and his bones should be pissed on. Get real, people.

See, I'd always imagined it to be something like this. I sat and watched the Batman Special edition and watched Bob Kane describe how he came up w/ the idea. The whole time I was thinking that either he is the single greatest b.s.'er of all time, or people today are going way overboard w/ hate for him. I always imagined it to be the latter. I think some people take pleasure in the idea of a sort of comic book martyr. I sat and watched bob kane talk about the joker and penguin like they were his own. As I listened, I couldn't help but get the feeling that this man might just possibly be responsible for atleast a good chunk of the batman world afterall. And it's not like the concept of DC screwing over people was a new concept. Yeah Bill Finger got screwed, but guess what, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster got it worse, and they never got the finances they should have. I don't ever see rebellious threads dedicated to them. Mr. Brown, would it be too much trouble to summarize what Bob Kane said about Bill Finger? Unless the book is mainly about Batman anyway, in which case I'll buy it. But yeah, Bill Finger got screwed, and should be right there w/ Bob Kane when the credits roll. I seriously think that it's possible for that to one day happen. I mean, Bob Kane worked w/ this man. Surely his wife knew him, and what he contributed to the character. If Bob gave him credit in his book, then I believe that the concept of adding Bill's name to the fold wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[super85]

Kane wasn't the nicest guy, and people forget that around 1989, he lightened up and in his autobiography, he gives Finger the credit he deserves. But he didn't attempt to cut Finger out of the loop, DC did that.

Well, Kane says something like "Now when my partner is long gone I can admit that he never got the recognition that he deserved" or something along those lines. Finger died in the mid 70s, back then Bob Kane still used to say that he was drawing the comics and a few artists like Infantino etc inked him and Kane himself was the creator. He kept saying for a long time that he still worked on the books while he actually hadnt done anything in years.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Nah....DC just doesn't want to deal with it. They don't care. And, most importantly, they don't want to make public this issue. So, they do nothing. It's pretty clean and cut like that, I feel.

 

[super85]

Nah....DC just doesn't want to deal with it. They don't care. And, most importantly, they don't want to make public this issue. So, they do nothing. It's pretty clean and cut like that, I feel.

Well, DC did put the "Written by Bill Finger" text on the Batman Begins deluxe DVD mini-comic (some versions had it on a t post it on the comic,mine has it on the actual comic) and rumour is that the Kane estate started *****ing about that, and thats just silly,Finger doesn't even have any relatives to pay royalties to.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Really? That's wierd, I don't see how "written by" could be wrong, since Kane was never a writer.

 

[The Batman]

Kane didnt lift a damn finger to help out finger....what.so.ever. Good looking out for a childhood friend....letting him die a penniless man at the age of 60...and waiting 15 years after his death to say "My Bad!"

In fact, in an issue of Batmania magazine, a fanzine dedicated to Batman, kane spent much of a letter trying to defend himself against allegations that finger helped out. it was in the same letter that he announced the 60's batman tv show. So no, mistake or not with the copyright, kane was an arrogant guy

 

[The Batman]

And by the way, finger WAS screwed worse than siegel and shuster. Siegel and Shuster got their byline in the superman books and media, and was paid a hefty sum for the last twenty plus years of their lives. Did finger get that? No, he died penniless, haunting bars and getting drunk

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Dying drunk doesn't sound like such a bad way to go. I'd like to go out like that lying on a beach somewhere. (I'm serious....no joke...)

What I'd like to know, is did Finger try to fight it? Did he want a byline? Did he kick Kane in the nuts over this? I mean....what was the relatinoshipo between both men during they're Batman work? What was it after? I'd like to know those things, b/c they count for something.

And DC is just trying to sweep this under the rug.....I mean, ask yourself. Why would they make this an issue? It can only mean bad business for them.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Dying drunk doesn't sound like such a bad way to go. I'd like to go out like that lying on a beach somewhere. (I'm serious....no joke...)

What I'd like to know, is did Finger try to fight it? Did he want a byline? Did he kick Kane in the nuts over this? I mean....what was the relatinoshipo between both men during they're Batman work? What was it after? I'd like to know those things, b/c they count for something.

And DC is just trying to sweep this under the rug.....I mean, ask yourself. Why would they make this an issue? It can only mean bad business for them.

http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm
scroll down and read the article labeled:
Wizard Magazine (issue #135) published an article on Mr. Finger.
i believe that covers the issue of your first question.

as for the second, i do not believe DC is trying to sweep anything under the rug, but rather they realize that theres pretty much nothing they can do legally.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, I wouldn't say it was a conspiracy.......it's just something that means nothing to them and would only bring bad bussiness........so they have no interest in it. I think they could find a loop hole, if they cared.

 

[Ibn]

And by the way, finger WAS screwed worse than siegel and shuster. Siegel and Shuster got their byline in the superman books and media, and was paid a hefty sum for the last twenty plus years of their lives. Did finger get that? No, he died penniless, haunting bars and getting drunk

Right - after the movie came out. You just proved my point. DC KNEW that THEY were the creators and they STILL got screwed.
How exactly does everybody know the gory details surrounding Bill Fingers demise?

 

[Madzar]

It would be very nice if somebody post some very early sketches of batman that Kane and Bill made.

 

[The Batman]

Right - after the movie came out. You just proved my point. DC KNEW that THEY were the creators and they STILL got screwed.
How exactly does everybody know the gory details surrounding Bill Fingers demise?

No...your original point was that siegel and shuster had it worse than finger....when its not true at all.

Neal Adams rallied the comic community to give those two their due...and they were paid a good amount of money for the rest of their lives. They are fully recognized as supermans creators, with their heirs carrying on their legacy.

Not a damn soul went up to bat for Bill Finger....and he died....peniless....with barely anyone besides die hard fans knowing his contribution to the mythos. He left no heirs, so no one could fight for him.

And your telling me siegel and shuster got it worse. Lol.