Origin stories? Who needs them?

[Chris Wallace]

Hancock was based on a seven issue indie comic by Rob Liefield. Well, okay. Maybe "loosly inspired by in an almost unrecognizable form" would be a better way to put it.

Still, Liefield started in the middle of the story, and didn't get around to the origin before he decided to call it quits.

I did not know that. The book must not have been a big hit.

 

[Scooter]

For the most part I agree. I don't think more than 5-10 minutes needs to be spent on T'Challa's backstory-for my tastes-as I would rather see the majority of the film be devoted to him ruling with knowledge & wisdom & not trying to figure out what to do.

I would devote the majority of the first film to T'Challa's "back story". But then, I envision T'Chaka having a big role in the film.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm not a huge fan of that angle. It sounds like it makes T'Challa a supporting character comig out of the gate.

 

[Scooter]

Why? T'Challa would definitely be the focus. It's his origin.

 

[Chris Wallace]

But not if someone else is the Panther throughout 2/3 of it.

 

[Scooter]

The makes little sense. His origin is how he became the Black Panther. That necessitates a time when he wasn't the Black Panther. There's a lineage to this Panther thing, and I think the "mantle", in many ways, transcends or supercedes the present owner. It would be interesting to explore that.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Like I said, as much as I am pro-origins in general, I don't want a "Black Panther Begins" type of story.

 

[The Major]

I did not know that. The book must not have been a big hit.

I don't recall it ever being published. Not in the direct market anyway.

 

[The Major]

The makes little sense. His origin is how he became the Black Panther. That necessitates a time when he wasn't the Black Panther. There's a lineage to this Panther thing, and I think the "mantle", in many ways, transcends or supercedes the present owner. It would be interesting to explore that.

BP's origin definitely could be good in film. Using ether Kirby's or Priests version, of course.

What's better is that it sets up his rivalry with Klaw early on.

Chris:

It doesn't need to as detailed like Batman Begins was. Just set it up in a five to ten minute prologue then have T'Challa be BP for the rest of the movie. He can discuss his past about what happened after T'Chaka's death with Claw and other characters in their encounters.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That's what I said.

 

[Scooter]

BP's origin definitely could be good in film. Using ether Kirby's or Priests version, of course.

Or a new adaptation that culls core elements from the comics while passing them through a fresh, imaginative filter. Details are fun, but mostly ancillary. Focus on the themes. Capture the spirit of the books.

It doesn't need to as detailed like Batman Begins was. Just set it up in a five to ten minute prologue then have T'Challa be BP for the rest of the movie. He can discuss his past about what happened after T'Chaka's death with Claw and other characters in their encounters.

T'Chaka could be an interesting character on film. He shouldn't be dead five minutes in. I would envision T'Challa becoming the Black Panther, completely, only towards the end of the film. It's the journey that's interesting.

But enough of that, because this thread is getting a bit off topic.

 

[The Major]

Or a new adaptation that culls core elements from the comics while passing them through a fresh, imaginative filter. Details are fun, but mostly ancillary. Focus on the themes. Capture the spirit of the books.


T'Chaka could be an interesting character on film. He shouldn't be dead five minutes in. I would envision T'Challa becoming the Black Panther, completely, only towards the end of the film. It's the journey that's interesting.

But enough of that, because this thread is getting a bit off topic.

That would be an interesting approach.

Could absolutely see good films from those ideas.

 

[steelio2006]

im sorry but we see origin movies all the time nowadays. im open to just start the story goin in and (thru credits show origin or have flashback).

 

[The Major]

im sorry but we see origin movies all the time nowadays.

That's because most comic super-heroes haven't been known to the public.

The audience needs to know them before they can care about them and origins can do that very fast.

im open to just start the story goin in and (thru credits show origin or have flashback).

I have no problem with that type of thing. TIH did an excellent job with that technique.

 

[Evil Twin]

I agree. How would you do any Green Lantern movie without some form of origins?

I wouldn't as I think the awe and wonder of the discovery of the ring and its capabilities are too good to pass up.

But, playing hypothetical, I'd probably start on Oa, with Green Lantern recruits training, establish that it's a cosmic police force along with the capabilities and weaknesses of the rings, discuss a problem that's arisen, and then transition to Earth with the Guardians alerting Green Lantern of the problem, perhaps interrupting a character establishing moment.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That's because most comic super-heroes haven't been known to the public.

The audience needs to know them before they can care about them and origins can do that very fast.

Precisely. And, since NO superhero movie has followed the comics to the letter, we comic fans can't very well go in thinking we know everything when so many liberties are taken along the way.

 

[luca_frontino]

I'm bumping this thread in the wake of the announced reboots of The Fantastic Four and DareDevil.
And don't forget to take into account the possibility of Marvel Studios rebooting Spider-Man and The X-Men.

So, about Spider-Man: in a possible reboot would you really re-do an origin story?
To me, in no effin way.
And I'm against origins for all characters.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Origin stories are for fanboys, the general audience couldn't care less.

It's dumb. Even James Bond gets two origin movies these days.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

So, about Spider-Man: in a possible reboot would you really re-do an origin story?
To me, in no effin way.
And I'm against origins for all characters.

Short flashbacks. Short flashbacks are enough. Without wasting the whole movie for the typical "The Life Before THe Origin/Origin/The Beginning/Early Victories/Defeat & Doubt/Victory!" formula. We had that in Superman The Movie, we had it in Spider-Man, we got it in Batman Begins... it's such a bore.

The audience can have their own THOUGHTS and IDEAS about the origin of the characters, imagine that! There can be mysteries! It's not necessary to flesh everything out!

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

Thanks for bumping.
To refresh the subject:
I know now that Marvel is getting their rights back little by little their going ‘control freak’ on their properties but I think rebooting anything is a stupid idea. What they did with Hulk and Punisher was a waste of time…and money. Why don’t they just do a sequel, a good one? Just get new actors on board like usual. That’s all the difference it’ll need. And if their hands are really itching that much, it’s not like any important retcons can’t be done in those same sequels *coughsm3cough*.

EDIT: On the other hand, it's not like Hulk or Punisher were such complete reboots. I don't think Marvel's gonna risk it to become redundant with their origin stories.
See, that's where keeping the origin story to a minimum is a good idea after all.

Oh and btw, Watchmen is truly the best origin-less story out there now. All the back story was kept to a bare minimum. That’s what I was talking about, that’s what I wanted to see.

 

[Jordacar]

I'd kinda love to see Marvel take another crack at the FF's origin, even though they probably won't and the next movie would surely be better off without it.

 

[LostSon88]

Origin stories are a necessity in most comic book films because the general audience needs it. Don't be close minded and say they are not necessary just because your geeky ass already knows it...

QFT.

 

[luca_frontino]

Origin stories are not needed. In the real world you don't know the origins of everyone you met in your life.
As for the reboots, I want them to be set in completely new continuities but without origins.
I say no to sequels. Better have them requels.

 

[LostSon88]

1. In the real world, superheroes don't exist. And in the real world there's only a handful of beings out there with an origin story half as interesting as those given in the superhero medium.

2. Getting to know someone in essence is learning about their 'origins'...so don't tell me you've never been interested in the backstories of the people you've met in your life.

Without explaining some elements of a characters origins, what reason does the viewer have to really care about the character if they have no idea the who's and why's they are doing what they do...

If Iron Man for example had no origin and simply had him going right into action, my main question would be, "Who the hell is this guy, and why should I care?"

Origins stories allow an opportunity for the viewer to get to know the person behind the mask/armor and in turn get to know them on a more personal level...that is IF the origin is done well.

 

[dude stannis]

Origin stories can also dilute the hero's first appearance. Compare Batman '89 to Batman Begins. In '89 it's shadowy mysterious badass mofo giving two junkies the beating of a lifetime, in Begins it's good old Bruce putting what was shown to us twenty minutes ago into practice.

If Iron Man for example had no origin and simply had him going right into action, my main question would be, "Who the hell is this guy, and why should I care?"

Because he's the good guy and he's out to stop the bad guys, because he's the guy in the badass iron suit blowing up tanks. Is that what you said when Han Solo was outflying star destroyers? "Who the hell is this guy and why do I care?"? Is that what you said when Rambo snapped?

Who the hell is Snake Plissken? Why should I care?

Who the hell is Ripley? Why should I care?

When I fork out ten bucks to see a movie called Blade, do I pay the ten bucks to see Wesley Snipes unleashing hell in a vampire rave or do I pay ten bucks to see a skinny homeless kid drinking rat blood?