Origins

[Flame on!]

Is anyone else sick of seeing the origin of a particular character in the movie versions? Okay, so flicks like Superman, Spider-Man and to a lesser extent, Hulk dealt with the origins rather proficiantly, albeit slightly bastardized. Daredevil, X-Men, and the original 4 Bat-flicks dealt with flashbacks and storytelling to explain the origins with mized success. Batman Begins, Fantastic Four and The Punisher spoon fed the seeds of the hero in a slightly insulting fashion, but whereas Begins led some credability with pay-offs in motivation and character, the FF was laughable. Both FF and the Punisher would've been better served dealing with the origin in either flashback or another storytelling device.

What do you guys think?

 

[roach]

while you and I know who the FF are and how they got their powers there are poeple out there who wouldnt know. I can hear the questions now..."Why is this guy shooting people and wearing a skull on his chest?"

 

[Flame on!]

I'm not saying don't have the origin. I'm just saying that is not always necassary to devote 30-40 minutes to it. For example, the FF would've worked a lot better if they told thier story of thier origin on a chat show or something. Okay, so that's a crude example, but there has to be something other than we've been 'treated' to so far.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

First movies are always gonna be bogged down by that. But, at least they get outta th' way fer sequels.

 

[Silver Sable]

I don't mind if their origins are flashbacks or intros

 

[Flame on!]

Well in the right hands, anything works. But we never saw the origin of Bond (well, we will but that was after 20 movies). We saw a young Indy in the third Indiana Jones film. Why are comic book movies any different from those heroes? Do we need an origin every time? Could a movie work without one?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

As already stated, they can't. You got people with powers, you not only have to set up WHY but what their motivations are. Indiana Jones, he's an archaeologist durin' WWII and we learn why he has to be such a badass at th' same time...th' set-up is all right there in th' story. Fer heroes, an origin is th' integral part of th' story.

 

[co2]

Origins are often the best part of a character because it defines him/her. And the best stories are those that come back and challenge the hero on those core beliefs or choices.

 

[Flame on!]

Origins are often the best part of a character because it defines him/her. And the best stories are those that come back and challenge the hero on those core beliefs or choices.

Whilst I agree for the most part, I think folk are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying 'don't have the origins'. I'm asking if they necassarily need to be in the first film, in linear format? Isnt it running the risk of becoming cliched? Say a new flick about the Flash came out. Chances are the first half an hour would be his origin. How imaginative. Same thing could be said about numerous other heroes. Weak attempts to link the origin with the plot (ie. DD/Kingpin/Jack Murdock, FF/Doom) are downright lazy and have been hit n miss at best. C'mon people, think. We shouldn't go into a superhero flick already knowing what's going to happen for the first half hour.

 

[Flame on!]

As already stated, they can't. You got people with powers, you not only have to set up WHY but what their motivations are. Indiana Jones, he's an archaeologist durin' WWII and we learn why he has to be such a badass at th' same time...th' set-up is all right there in th' story. Fer heroes, an origin is th' integral part of th' story.

Which is why Unbreakable is one of the best 'superhero' stories out there. The origin was integral to the plot, and not some incidental chapter that spoon feeds the audience.

 

[The Question]

Well, FF probably would have worked better if they told the origin through exposition/flashback. I mean, that's how they did it in the very first issue of Fantastic Four. FF also probably would have worked better if they hadn't had that cheesy comedy montage in the middle, actually had Dr. Doom be Dr. Doom, and wrote a movie that actually had the pulp fiction/Doc Savage feel that the comics have.

 

[Flame on!]

Well, FF probably would have worked better if they told the origin through exposition/flashback. I mean, that's how they did it in the very first issue of Fantastic Four. FF also probably would have worked better if they hadn't had that cheesy comedy montage in the middle, actually had Dr. Doom be Dr. Doom, and wrote a movie that actually had the pulp fiction/Doc Savage feel that the comics have.

Exactly, but I think we've reached a point were writers are feel compelled to stick the origin at the start because that's pretty much a convention of the genre.

I was thinking maybe that if there was a Flash film, how would I do the origin? I mean, I know how I would do the origin in terms the sequence of events, but I'm talking about how it would be structured narratively.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Flash I can see done in a FLASHback.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It depends on the movie; I can't think of a movie thus far that would've been better served without the origin. On the other hand, some-like Black Panther-don't really need it.
And they tried Punisher w/o an origin once before...

 

[lateforwork]

I honestly feel that all creativity is literally ebing drained from Hollywood, so it is sad, but shouldn't come as a surprise that when they do have a big movie to do, they stay as close to possible as wherever they got the idea from.

 

[The Question]

Exactly, but I think we've reached a point were writers are feel compelled to stick the origin at the start because that's pretty much a convention of the genre.

I was thinking maybe that if there was a Flash film, how would I do the origin? I mean, I know how I would do the origin in terms the sequence of events, but I'm talking about how it would be structured narratively.

Way I see it, start with Wally established as Central City/Keystone City's local celebrity and hero, and have him talk about Barry with the flashbacks.

 

[Dwarf lord]

Which is why Unbreakable is one of the best 'superhero' stories out there. The origin was integral to the plot, and not some incidental chapter that spoon feeds the audience.

Wasn't Unbreakable a mystery about everything? It wouldn't have made sense to put it at the beginning.