Overlooked plot point/hole in the "Club Of Heroes" arc

[RobC]

It had more to do with him saying that all Morisson has been capable as of late is weak storytelling than the fact that it's a throwback to the silver age of Superman comics.

Right, gotcha, sorry, misunderstood your reasoning for a moment.

I agree that silver-age elements can be brought back, Silver for a start deserves a bigger angle in Bruce's life. However things like Bat-Mite? I just don't see it. For me, I don't want it in any way shape or form, and I can't understand anyone who does, but, if they do, fair play to them.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Like the rpenguin said there has always been a HUGE GAP in Batman's post-crisis history! It was the phase when Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson fought together. The early days of Batman are covered with all those Mad Monk, Legends of the Dark Knight stories and so on! We don't know much about these years when the ICONIC DYNAMIC DUO were on their mission to protect the innocent! So Morrison's view that these years where the time when Batman was really happy, the TIME of his LIFE; is kinda cool. The world was a nice place, Gotham City, too. Batman had SUCCESS! And then everything became darker and darker. And now we are marching out of that territory again!

 

[The Guard]

We know a ton about every era of Batman's career. There are all kinds of miniseries and one shots and LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT-style stories about it. There was most definitely a period of time when Bruce Wayne was happier and more human, when things were more hopful, and when he had a family. I don't mind Grant bringing some of the Silver Age elements back to the forefront. As far as I'm concerned, they never left. They just belong to a different part of Batman's career.

 

[RobC]

Yeah but whilst we don't have lots of defining books, I mean only DV in terms of Grayson, we do have a lot of one shot stuff.

I just can't see what he hopes to gain from bringing back Bat-Mite.

Before this run I used to think extremely highly of Morrison, Arkham Asylum was awsome, Animal Man was cool and his JLA stuff was good as well.

Now though...

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

We know a ton about every era of Batman's career. There are all kinds of miniseries and one shots and LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT-style stories about it. There was most definitely a period of time when Bruce Wayne was happier and more human, when things were more hopful, and when he had a family. I don't mind Grant bringing some of the Silver Age elements back to the forefront. As far as I'm concerned, they never left. They just belong to a different part of Batman's career.

We don't know much about the DYNAMIC DUO era. It's the stuff of the 40s,50s,60s were we do not know what counts and what not. And we don't know much about the time when Dick went to college.

Batman the loner = A lot
Batman & Robin = not much
Batman & College Robin = not much
Batman & Jason Todd = the post-crisis continuity started from there, so we know

 

[RobC]

Strange Apparitions has some of college era Robin.

But agreed, otherwise there isn't much of the original Batman and Robin.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Strange Apparitions has some of college era Robin.

But agreed, otherwise there isn't much of the original Batman and Robin.

Strange Apparitions doesn't even count! It wouldn't even fit into the post-crisis continuity without tweaking. You have to say things like "yeah, that part of the story but this didn't". EVERYTHING before Denny O'Neil became editor of the Bat titles is not really defined. In "Strange Apparitions" Bruce Wayne even says to Silver that Alfred helped Batman with some cases. Who does that fit into the modern continuity??? Superman had a complete reboot, so everything before MAN OF STEEL didn't count. But for Batman it was always like "yeah, those Silver Age stories don't count, the Golden Age stories don't count, but this story there from the 70s does, that Brave&Bold one doesn't AND SO ON". So we can't be SURE what exactly happened back then. Did Batman & Robin (Dick Grayson) participate in dark and gritty stories? Or were the funny and colorful? Did Batman really go into space back in the day? That's the GAP.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

that is why Morrison's "EVERYTHING HAPPENED" approcha is so good. Don't worry about time. yeah, who can all those stories happen to one man, he must be about 60 years old. BUT THAT's not the POINT. Batman is a comic book character he is IMMORTAL. That's the STRENGTH of the medium, that is why I oppose all those attempts to introduce an "aging system" into comics. Like anyone want's to see a 60 year old Batman or a replacement for him! It's THE SIMPSONS effect. That is why they are still on air.

 

[RobC]

Um, no-one said anything about an aged 60 Batman, calm down

I was merely using Strange Apparitions as an example of Batman and Robin where Robin is at college.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Um, no-one said anything about an aged 60 Batman, calm down

I was merely using Strange Apparitions as an example of Batman and Robin where Robin is at college.

I know that! I just wanted to point out a few things!

 

[The Guard]

We don't know much about the DYNAMIC DUO era. It's the stuff of the 40s,50s,60s were we do not know what counts and what not. And we don't know much about the time when Dick went to college.

Are you honestly telling me that you have never read a Post Crisis story about Dick Grayson as Robin fighting alongside Batman?

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Are you honestly telling me that you have never read a Post Crisis story about Dick Grayson as Robin fighting alongside Batman?

Name them! There are just a few.

 

[RobC]

Actually i'm going to defend this, I can only think of Contagion/Cataclysm, and even then he's Nightwing.

 

[Cain]

^ Robin: Year One? Turning Points? Dark Victory? the now infamous Batman #408 where Dick got shot?

But yeah there were just a few for the most part post-crisis when it comes to Batman & Robin it's Bruce with either Jason or Tim.

 

[RobC]

I knew of DV, that's his introduction right? I don't think the dynamic duo era has been touched upon that much. Maybe because there is so much Pre-Crisis stuff out there.

 

[The Guard]

Name them! There are just a few.

Name them? You're asking me to single out Batman and Robin stories out of all the Batman stories I have read over the years? I'll be the first to admit that I can't do that. But the fact that there aren't many don't mean that they don't exist. Now, Pre-Crisis had more of the "older Robin" stories than you will find Post Crisis, but they do exist. They're usually "flashback" or "throwback" stories. Although I believe we're meant to assume that things were like they were just Pre-Crisis, where they were partners with issues.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Name them? You're asking me to single out Batman and Robin stories out of all the Batman stories I have read over the years? I'll be the first to admit that I can't do that. But the fact that there aren't many don't mean that they don't exist. Now, Pre-Crisis had more of the "older Robin" stories than you will find Post Crisis, but they do exist.

Exactly, exactly! So we don't know that they experienced in these years in the modern continuity!

They're usually "flashback" or "throwback" stories. Although I believe we're meant to assume that things were like they were just Pre-Crisis, where they were partners with issues.

? PreCrisis they were never partners with issues. That's a modern retcon.

 

[Cain]

I knew of DV, that's his introduction right? I don't think the dynamic duo era has been touched upon that much. Maybe because there is so much Pre-Crisis stuff out there.

Yeah it is now considered his introduction to the mythos. It took the place of the Year Three arc from the late 80's the same way that TLH replaced Year Two.

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Yeah it is now considered his introduction to the mythos. It took the place of the Year Three arc from the late 80's the same way that TLH replaced Year Two.

it's a shame. I think "Year THree" is better. Too bad it was never collected in a tpb, so many new readers don't know the story.

I still have the original ones

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

^ Robin: Year One? Turning Points? Dark Victory? the now infamous Batman #408 where Dick got shot?

well, this must be all. And they are basically re-tellings. Batman#408 "Did Robin DIe Tonight?" is the FINAL Robin I story, so I am still right: Not much about when they were the ICONIC team.

 

[Cain]

well, this must be all. And they are basically re-tellings. Batman#408 "Did Robin DIe Tonight?" is the FINAL Robin I story, so I am still right: Not much about when they were the ICONIC team.

I never said you were wrong notice the part in my post when I typed "But yeah there were just a few for the most part"?

I was just lending RobC a hand. I don't get why Year Three was never collected either. To me it was much better than Year Two which ended up getting the TPB treatment. But it doesn't matter to me either cause like you I also own the original 3 issues.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly, exactly! So we don't know that they experienced in these years in the modern continuity!

So? We don't know what Batman experiences from comic to comic when it's not seen on the page. But we certainly know the nature of it, and that's what those flashback stories show us.

PreCrisis they were never partners with issues. That's a modern retcon.

Not in the 60's, no. But toward the early to mid-eighties, before Crisis, pre-Jason Todd? You bet there was some of that. Otherwise, why would Robin ever have left to become Nightwing?

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Not in the 60's, no. But toward the early to mid-eighties, before Crisis, pre-Jason Todd? You bet there was some of that. Otherwise, why would Robin ever have left to become Nightwing?

No. They had a perfect relationship. He left to become Nightwing because he became too old and felt he should stand on his own feet. In other words: He grew out and didn't want to be a sidekick. There was no conflict about it, he even gave Jason Todd his costume.

 

[RobC]

Yeah, I always got told that he left of his own accord, there wasn't a defining incident.

Not read Y2 of Y3, but always hear highly of them. Maybe I will eBay that stuff...

Or get DV, which do you guys reccomend?

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

Yeah, I always got told that he left of his own accord, there wasn't a defining incident.

Post-crisis Batman fired him after an encounter with the Joker, which didn't make a lot of sense, but well. I can live with it.

Not read Y2 of Y3, but always hear highly of them. Maybe I will eBay that stuff...

Year Two is collected in a tpb, but don't get confused, it's not a sequel to Year One, it's actually nothing like Year One and it doesn't even cover a whole year (but probably takes place in Batman's second year). Barr actually plotted the story long before "Year One" and it was called that way for marketing reasons. It is a re-telling of the Joe Chill story and features a Batman that doesn't really act in character. He even used a criminal as a shield against gunfire. It was an interesting "experimental" story, but I don't like it that much. "Year Three" doesn't play in Batman's third year, it just has flashbacks to that era. Tony Zucco gets out of prision.

Or get DV, which do you guys reccomend?

I think it's better than TLH, at least it's fair and all this stuff. Well, it's Loeb. Like him or don't like him.