Overlooked plot point/hole in the "Club Of Heroes" arc

[RobC]

I like Loeb, actually out of the partnership it's Sale that I find the hardest to digest, his art just isn't my thing.

It seems from what you're saying Y2 and Y3 aren't actually Y2 or Y3 stories at all :S I might go for DV now.

 

[The Guard]

No. They had a perfect relationship. He left to become Nightwing because he became too old and felt he should stand on his own feet. In other words: He grew out and didn't want to be a sidekick. There was no conflict about it, he even gave Jason Todd his costume.

He grew out of Batman's shadow and didn't want to be a sidekick anymore. That would tend to be conflict in the context of their partnership and on Dick's end of things, wouldn't it? I'm not saying they fought constantly, but if Dick was ok with being Robin and a sidekick, wouldn't he have remained Robin, and under Batman's shadow?

 

[Parents-Gun-Bat]

He grew out of Batman's shadow and didn't want to be a sidekick anymore. That would tend to be conflict in the context of their partnership and on Dick's end of things, wouldn't it? I'm not saying they fought constantly, but if Dick was ok with being Robin and a sidekick, wouldn't he have remained Robin, and under Batman's shadow?

...
Pre-Crisis: no conflict.
Post-Crisis: conflict that came out of the blue

Do you still live with your parents? Did you move on because of a conflict or simply because you were old enough to stand on your own feet?

 

[RobC]

I don't think there was a conflict as in they fought, or struggled with each other, it was more of a conflict of interests, Robin wanted to strike out on his own.

It was a good conflict, a healthy natural one, rather than a damaging one.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Strange Apparitions doesn't even count! It wouldn't even fit into the post-crisis continuity without tweaking. You have to say things like "yeah, that part of the story but this didn't". EVERYTHING before Denny O'Neil became editor of the Bat titles is not really defined. In "Strange Apparitions" Bruce Wayne even says to Silver that Alfred helped Batman with some cases. Who does that fit into the modern continuity???

sorry, i have to argue that, as it doesn't make sense. I MIGHT be confused by what you're trying to say, so correct me if i'm wrong.

You're saying that Strange Apparitions doesn't count in current continuity because Bruce told Silver that Alfred knew Batman because Alfred helped Batman with some cases, correct?

Now, are you asking HOW does that make the book fit into continuity? or are you really asking WHO does that book then throw into current continuity based on what Bruce told Silver?

Either way, i think it's silly to say Strange Apparitions isn't in continuity because of that. In reading the book, it can be taken as a simple cover up for Bruce and NOT as a reference to past adventures, which it probably was in reference to originally.

 

[Nepenthes]

I generally take the view the that any event - for example Strange Apparitions- did not not occur intil that event is referenced in present time. Alfred mentions the time Joker ran for Mayor and there you go, suddenly we know that Strange Apparitions did indeed happen somewhere in the past context of this story. This cannot apply to everything e.g. like the death of Bruce parents or Joker shooting Barbera or whatever, but it does help keep things in perspective when reading certain troublesome stories. Likewise, Batman has never actually fought the Floronic Man when he was comprised totally of bioengineered cannabis plants, until the time when Floronic Man actually shows up and that past event becomes important to the present story unfolding, that he was once made of cannabis and perpetually stoned.

 

[RobC]

Yeah it's like re-referenced then it's 'in' so to speak. I always put Strange Apparitions in continuity, just after TLH and jus before TKJ. But then I put *all* my book in order that makes sense, even if they're not in continuity. So I have Arkham Asylum just after A Death In The Family.

 

[Nepenthes]

^ Yep. If you want to get metaphorical you can view a story as tapestry in progress and continuity as the threads going into it. Each thread is a different event of series of events in the past and they're picked up and woven into the current story. If they're left dangling it doesn't mean it never happened, just that it's irrelevant for the context of the story that's happening right now. Irrelevant meaning it makes no difference if they did or they didn't. I was just using Strange Apparitions as an example, I like the story and it doesn't rely on or mess with much continuity outside of the story, so hey, it's in.Your odering is pretty good, I'd probably fit it like that too.

 

[RobC]

Yeah, I have a few sticky problems, like Venom which takes about 8 months continuity wise. I have my rough order, and I enjoy it that way. I rarely take notice of 'official' continuity lists, a lot of them leave out one-shots or have things seriously muddled.

I did see one list once, it was a total DC one, it was awsome, running JLA/Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman and all the rest, it was about 500 pages long, but looked incredible.

And to an OCD guy like me, it was like meth...