PC Police On FIlm

[Black Narcissus]

I agree that there should be more women as lead characters and behind the camera, LGBTQ characters, and more minority actors in roles. But at the same time I truly believe there are great directors who don't have any of that in their films for the most part, but I don't see them doing it with malice or being ignorant.

Scorsese has not had a female driven film in 30 plus yrs or so. I don't consider him sexist.

Whedon and the whole BW fiasco online was nasty to see.

Mad Max: Fury Road became a female empowerment film on various parts of social media, but even then it was picked a part by some feminist because a few shots were showing just a bit of cleavage or considered using the ''male gaze'' etc.

 

[Napoleon]

This article sums it up nicely for me:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...stry-says-no-more-to-social-justice-warriors/

I really hate this new wave of social film critics, critics that can't review films objectively but instead review them on whether or not it agrees with their ideologies at all. Entertainment Weekly's like this to name one. I've seen so many critics reviews of Fury Road do nothing but wax poetic over how "progressive" it is rather than give a detailed aesthetic and narrative critique. It's just the lazy way of doing it IMO, and while a socio-political critique does have its merits, relying on that alone is discrediting all the other elements of the craft.

Another thing is this anti-masculinity sentiment; masculine virtues are seemingly not allowed to be celebrated in this day and age and alpha maleness is frowned upon. These people are basically so pro-feminism that they come across as even more sexist than anything.

 

[Napoleon]

This article sums it up nicely for me:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...stry-says-no-more-to-social-justice-warriors/

I really hate this new wave of social film critics, critics that can't review films objectively but instead review them on whether or not it agrees with their ideologies at all. Entertainment Weekly's like this to name one. I've seen so many critics reviews of Fury Road do nothing but wax poetic over how "progressive" it is rather than give a detailed aesthetic and narrative critique. It's just the lazy way of doing it IMO, and while a socio-political critique does have its merits, relying on that alone is discrediting all the other elements of the craft.

Another thing is this anti-masculinity sentiment; masculine virtues are seemingly not allowed to be celebrated in this day and age and alpha maleness is frowned upon. These people are basically so pro-feminism that they come across as even more sexist than anything.

 

[Napoleon]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I agree that there should be more women as lead characters and behind the camera, LGBTQ characters, and more minority actors in roles. But at the same time I truly believe there are great directors who don't have any of that in their films for the most part, but I don't see them doing it with malice or being ignorant.

Scorsese has not had a female driven film in 30 plus yrs or so. I don't consider him sexist.

Whedon and the whole BW fiasco online was nasty to see.

Mad Max: Fury Road became a female empowerment film on various parts of social media, but even then it was picked a part by some feminist because a few shots were showing just a bit of cleavage or considered using the ''male gaze'' etc.

If you agree with this, what exactly is the argument? The idea isn't that Scorsese is sexist or any such thing. The idea is that studio policies are. All you have to do is look at the first two new Star Wars films and compare it to the output from Marvel for 7 years now.

On the Whedon/Black Widow thing. Joss wrote and directed those scenes. If he didn't see what he put on film, I think we need to revoke his feminism champion banner right now.

I agree that people take stuff too far all the time, but just as many people dismiss all criticism of these situations with the brush of SJW. You can have a discussion on roles and what they mean beyond the niceties. Just because you like a film, studio or franchise doesn't mean it can't have problems on a social level and that others can't talk about it. Film is after all art, it is suppose to invoke such discussion.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This article sums it up nicely for me:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...stry-says-no-more-to-social-justice-warriors/

I really hate this new wave of social film critics, critics that can't review films objectively but instead review them on whether or not it agrees with their ideologies at all. Entertainment Weekly's like this to name one. I've seen so many critics reviews of Fury Road do nothing but wax poetic over how "progressive" it is rather than give a detailed aesthetic and narrative critique. It's just the lazy way of doing it IMO, and while a socio-political critique does have its merits, relying on that alone is discrediting all the other elements of the craft.

Another thing is this anti-masculinity sentiment; masculine virtues are seemingly not allowed to be celebrated in this day and age and alpha maleness is frowned upon. These people are basically so pro-feminism that they come across as even more sexist than anything.

What is lazy about this? Is it truly lazier then talking about the special effects? Because I think going past the surface into the social ideas of a film is far more worth then, "I loved it, redefined the genre, best movie ever", which many a fansite linked in review threads do here.

The problem with your masculinity argument imo, is that it assigns virtues to an inherently sexist idea. Think about what masculinity has represented over the years, and you see why people have problems with it.

 

[Napoleon]

What is lazy about this? Is it truly lazier then talking about the special effects? Because I think going past the surface into the social ideas of a film is far more worth then, "I loved it, redefined the genre, best movie ever", which many a fansite linked in review threads do here.

Because I don't want to hear somebody prattle on about their identity politics when I read a film review. I want to know whether or not a film is worth seeing ultimately, with the review going into detail why or why not based on things such as the technical and narrative aspects, acting, etc.

The problem with your masculinity argument imo, is that it assigns virtues to an inherently sexist idea. Think about what masculinity has represented over the years, and you see why people have problems with it.

There's no more wrong with masculine virtues than there is feminine virtues, and to dismiss one as being all pure and good and the other as evil and toxic is narrow minded and sexist.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because I don't want to hear somebody prattle on about their identity politics when I read a film review. I want to know whether or not a film is worth seeing ultimately, with the review going into detail why or why not based on things such as the technical and narrative aspects, acting, etc.

How does this make it lazy?

Also you might not want to hear it, but you also don't have to read it. If you aren't the intended audience, you probably don't want to read it. But others find those kind of reviews useful, they matter to them. Why do you have a problem with that?

There's no more wrong with masculine virtues than there is feminine virtues, and to dismiss one as being all pure and good and the other as evil and toxic is narrow minded and sexist.

I wouldn't say that at all. Traditional masculinity isn't exactly based in equality, at least not how it is portrayed in media. At its root Feminism is about equality. And it makes sense. Masculinity was born in a culture run by men, a world based in male superiority. The virtues installed at that time would favor keeping that status quo. Feminism was born out of a time of inequality for women. Not that many don't pervert and hurt Feminism, many do. But its inherent goals are a push for equality imo. I also don't find all aspects of traditional masculinity awful, but many are imo.

 

[Loki882]

Napoleon Except that most people DON'T do that, so that argument is flawed from the beginning. It reeks of trying to discredit people who disagree with you instead of actually talking about the issue at hand.

I haven't heard anybody call Scorsese, or Spielberg, etc sexist, or misogynist. What people DO complain about is how the industry overall seems to treat women/minorities/lgbt people not great. Be they actors, writers, directors, etc. It's a systematic problem that goes beyond a handful of directors, and it's been this way for a LONG time.

 

[Napoleon]

How does this make it lazy?

Also you might not want to hear it, but you also don't have to read it. If you aren't the intended audience, you probably don't want to read it. But others find those kind of reviews useful, they matter to them. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because it reeks of entitlement, as in "THIS MOVIE DOES NOT PANDER 2 MY POLITICAL IDEALOGY/IDENTITY POLITICS!!!!!! **** THOSE DAMN DIRECTORS WHO WON'T BOW DOWN TO MUH DEMANDS!!!!! INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE STUFF THAT DOES, I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET AND TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL GUILT FOR LIKING IT!!!!! EVERY MOVIE MUST KOWTOW TO MY VIEWS!!!!!"

I wouldn't say that at all. Traditional masculinity isn't exactly based in equality, at least not how it is portrayed in media. At its root Feminism is about equality. And it makes sense. Masculinity was born in a culture run by men, a world based in male superiority. The virtues installed at that time would favor keeping that status quo. Feminism was born out of a time of inequality for women. Not that many don't pervert and hurt Feminism, many do. But its inherent goals are a push for equality imo. I also don't find all aspects of traditional masculinity awful, but many are imo.

Maybe at some point feminism was about equality, but this new wave is nothing but a bunch of spoiled, entitled young clicktivists looking to get offended who go with the crowd, don't think for themselves, and don't know what they're talking about. In other words, cultural Marxism.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because it reeks of entitlement, as in "THIS MOVIE DOES NOT PANDER 2 MY POLITICAL IDEALOGY/IDENTITY POLITICS!!!!!! **** THOSE DAMN DIRECTORS WHO WON'T BOW DOWN TO MUH DEMANDS!!!!! INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE STUFF THAT DOES, I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET AND TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL GUILT FOR LIKING IT!!!!! EVERY MOVIE MUST KOWTOW TO MY VIEWS!!!!!"

One, I don't really read many if any reviews doing what you just described. Secondly, even still how is that lazy?

Also, on the entitlement front. What would you call wanting other people's views disappeared from the internet because they annoy you? Again, you don't need to read those reviews at all. I have read a few reviews on Game of Thrones which I felt were fishing a bit too much for my liking. I just never read those writers again. Stopped effecting me.

Maybe at some point feminism was about equality, but this new wave is nothing but a bunch of spoiled, entitled young clicktivists looking to get offended who go with the crowd, don't think for themselves, and don't know what they're talking about. In other words, cultural Marxism.

Considering studies show still a healthy amount inherent sexism in our culture, I can't help but disagree. On a less scientific note, considering the reactions I see on the internet anything considered to be intended "for girls", I really don't agree.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

"Masculine virtues"....

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

"Masculine virtues"....

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Why? Virtue not masculine enough for ya?

 

[Sawyer]

Masculine Virtues is actually the title of my next erotic novel.

Spoiler Alert: There are no women involved in the story.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You can put every so called 'masculine' trait under the microscope and come away with numerous reservations of their virtuosity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Masculine Virtues is actually the title of my next erotic novel.

Spoiler Alert: There are no women involved in the story.

:I really do adore you Sawyer.

You can put every so called 'masculine' trait under the microscope and come away with numerous reservations of their virtuosity.

I am not exactly sure what you mean here, but I think I agree.

 

[Sawyer]

:I really do adore you Sawyer.

I was being serious!

 

[Snow Queen]

Masculine Virtues is actually the title of my next erotic novel.

Spoiler Alert: There are no women involved in the story.

Next? What were your others?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The Black Widow uproar over AOU was pretty dumb though.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Next? What were your others?

Mostyl HENRY CAVILL fan fiction.

 

[Napoleon]

You can put every so called 'masculine' trait under the microscope and come away with numerous reservations of their virtuosity.

I could do the same with many feminine traits.

 

[Black Narcissus]

If you agree with this, what exactly is the argument? The idea isn't that Scorsese is sexist or any such thing. The idea is that studio policies are. All you have to do is look at the first two new Star Wars films and compare it to the output from Marvel for 7 years now.

On the Whedon/Black Widow thing. Joss wrote and directed those scenes. If he didn't see what he put on film, I think we need to revoke his feminism champion banner right now.

I agree that people take stuff too far all the time, but just as many people dismiss all criticism of these situations with the brush of SJW. You can have a discussion on roles and what they mean beyond the niceties. Just because you like a film, studio or franchise doesn't mean it can't have problems on a social level and that others can't talk about it. Film is after all art, it is suppose to invoke such discussion.

Well, for me is the criticism that comes from some SJW just for sake of doing it. Before everyone got on the Fury Road bandwagon, Miller was starting to get criticism over bringing in the vagina monologue lady to work on the film, and this quickly went away after those Man rights dudes showed up. At the same time I do find whitewashing characters to be awful and if you're a filmmaker and doing a film in LA or NYC...If you don't show ANY minorities, I just can't fathom that filmmaker being unaware how awful this is etc.

 

[Sawyer]

Next? What were your others?

Mostyl HENRY CAVILL fan fiction.

That and a biographical Tom of Finland adventure series.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Black Widow uproar over AOU was pretty dumb though.

I honestly don't think it was dumb at all. But nuance and the conversation is lost in these arguments when everything is either the worst thing ever, or completely brushed aside as nonsense because it is impossible for something to be sexist if it is popular.

I could do the same with many feminine traits.

Oh, but you see the problem here is femininity was defined by males for hundreds of years. This is exactly why I believe so many males have a problem with feminism imo.

 

[DDS]

LMAO we're really bringing Braitbart into this.