PC Police On FIlm

[Sawyer]

LMAO we're really bringing Braitbart into this.

I was thinking the same thing. Not really the greatest source to back up your ideas.

 

[Snow Queen]

That and a biographical Tom of Finland adventure series.

Mostyl HENRY CAVILL fan fiction.

No Luke Evans? Sawyer, you disappoint me.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I always try to give the director and story of a film the benefit of doubt first. I remember some criticism about the film 'Whiplash' being awful to the one female character, but the story didn't really ask for more from that character. I kinda hate that criticism against the film.

That critic gave the film a lower score because of that.

 

[DDS]

Sometimes the far left progressive crowd goes overboard, I'll admit, such as when BLACKLIVESMATTER ransacked Bernie Sanders, or Anita Sarkessian's take on Fury Road on Twitter, which I didn't agree with at all.

But most of the time, I'll take them over the opposition.

 

[Snow Queen]

Wait, we're citing Eli Roth now?

Rule # 3. Hire really attractive stand-ins. Crew members are horny. They get frustrated that it’s not the 1980s anymore and that there are sexual harassment laws that prevent them from hitting on every girl at work. But movie sets are still kind of fair game, a place where people can openly flirt. But crew members often won’t hook up or have a ‘locationship’ because they work with each other again and again. That’s where the stand-ins come in.

The stands-ins are crew, but they’re not necessarily there every day. And if they’re the ones standing there for 45 minutes while the crew sets up the shot, everyone wants to look cool. People may say this is sexist, but it’s very basic human psychology: When you have pretty girls on set, the boys behave. Period. You’d think it would whip them into a frenzy, but it’s the opposite. When there are no girls on set, that’s when they’re at their worst.
On Cabin Fever we had two attractive actresses and it became a real problem. (We were in the woods with 30 guys and two girls.) After the first week, we hired a bunch of female production assistants and the boys calmed down (we didn’t have money for stand-ins).
On Hostel and Hostel: Part II, I made sure that I had beautiful stand-ins and the crew loved it. They were always so happy; they just wanted to take a moment to look cool and feel like girls were still interested in them. They’ve learned not to go after cast members because they’ll get in trouble with the producers or a jealous director (ahem), so the stand-ins keep them happy. A smile from a pretty girl goes a long, long, long way.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, for me is the criticism that comes from some SJW just for sake of doing it. Before everyone got on the Fury Road bandwagon, Miller was starting to get criticism over bringing in the vagina monologue lady to work on the film, and this quickly went away after those Man rights dudes showed up. At the same time I do find whitewashing characters to be awful and if you're a filmmaker and doing a film in LA or NYC...If you don't show ANY minorities, I just can't fathom that filmmaker being unaware how awful this is etc.

I agree the criticism towards Miller is wrong and unfounded. But that doesn't mean all such criticism is. You mention whitewashing of major cities, with real world diverse cultures. Why do you agree with this, but not necessarily when it comes to possible sexism in film?

 

[Rocketman]

I don't think Hollywood is sexist for not producing more female-led properties in the action/superhero genre. They've tried like hell with stuff like Resident Evil, Underworld, Catwoman, Elektra, Tomb Raider, Aeon Flux, Sucker Punch, Barb Wire, Tank Girl, the list goes on and on. They either bomb financially, or they bomb critically and they pump out sequels because of miniscule/barely-existent profit.

During arguments like this, people conveniently forget about Aliens, Kill Bill, La Femme Nikita, Divergent, Lucy, The Hunger Games... That list goes on and on too.

This is a non-issue that people want to jump on. If a movie is good, it'll be successful, and it'll set a trend. It's really as simple as that. Theres's no agenda against anyone. The agenda is to make money.

 

[Napoleon]

I honestly don't think it was dumb at all. But nuance and the conversation is lost in these arguments when everything is either the worst thing ever, or completely brushed aside as nonsense because it is impossible for something to be sexist if it is popular.


Oh, but you see the problem here is femininity was defined by males for hundreds of years. This is exactly why I believe so many males have a problem with feminism imo.

I don't have a problem with feminism when it comes preaching independence and personal responsibility. For example Reese Witherspoon wanted to see more women focused films, so she founded her own production company to do just that. She didn't complain or berate anyone, she put her money where her mouth was and did what she wanted to actually help her cause. THAT is positive feminism, and I wish more would follow her example. But most of the feminists I see just simply hate men and do nothing to actually improve women's lives, they just sit around and complain, and it irks me to no end.

LMAO we're really bringing Braitbart into this.

Just because YOU don't like the site doesn't make what they say invalid.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think Hollywood is sexist for not producing more female-led properties in the action/superhero genre. They've tried like hell with stuff like Resident Evil, Underworld, Catwoman, Elektra, Tomb Raider, Aeon Flux, Sucker Punch, Barb Wire, Tank Girl, the list goes on and on. They either bomb financially, or they bomb critically and they pump out sequels because of miniscule/barely-existent profit.

During arguments like this, people conveniently forget about Aliens, Kill Bill, La Femme Nikita, Divergent, Lucy, The Hunger Games... That list goes on and on too.

This is a non-issue that people want to jump on. If a movie is good, it'll be successful, and it'll set a trend. It's really as simple as that. Theres's no agenda against anyone. The agenda is to make money.

Is this where I point out that male superhero flicks bombed for years and were horrible? They still make those. They going to stop making male spy movies because U.N.C.L.E. didn't do great? How many male led franchises have done as well as Twilight or the Hunger Games? Why not more and more female lead franchises then?

Also, you say the list goes on. Please, keep going. Lets see how many female led action/adventure movies there are compared to male ones. I am sure the numbers will be very, very close.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't have a problem with feminism when it comes preaching independence and personal responsibility. For example Reese Witherspoon wanted to see more women focused films, so she founded her own production company to do just that. She didn't complain or berate anyone, she put her money where her mouth was and did what she wanted to actually help her cause. THAT is positive feminism, and I wish more would follow her example. But most of the feminists I see just simply hate men and do nothing to actually improve women's lives, they just sit around and complain, and it irks me to no end.

So instead of arguing against social problems, ones should just shut up and get on with it? I don't think that is how social change works in America. Never has. Whether it was throwing tea off of ships or marching through the streets in the south.

Also, do you really miss the irony of this statement? You are literally sitting here complaining about feminist. Exactly what you just complained feminist do to men.

Just because YOU don't like the site doesn't make what they say invalid.

I am now totally curious to read this site.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I agree the criticism towards Miller is wrong and unfounded. But that doesn't mean all such criticism is. You mention whitewashing of major cities, with real world diverse cultures. Why do you agree with this, but not necessarily when it comes to possible sexism in film?

Nah, you have me wrong or I'm just most likely not making sense. lol I did create the one thread on here bout women directors.

There are some extreme feminist out there who are brutal and reacted the wrong way towards Whedon, but I do understand the criticism there, just not the way they went about. A great rebuttal piece would have been better than a straight up attack. The director from JW said some real stupid **** regarding women directors recently, and those think pieces written at him were a fantastic way to go about.

 

[Sawyer]

Is this where I point out that male superhero flicks bombed for years and were horrible? They still make those. They going to stop making male spy movies because U.N.C.L.E. didn't do great? How many male led franchises have done as well as Twilight or the Hunger Games? Why not more and more female lead franchises then?

Also, you say the list goes on. Please, keep going. Lets see how many female led action/adventure movies there are compared to male ones. I am sure the numbers will be very, very close.

Yep. Weak argument.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The uproar over BW in AOU was dumb because... They aren't IN a relationship. They aren't sleeping together, or dating or anything. She is saying, "Hey... Maybe we can be together? And if you are worried about children... Well that can't happen. If you are worried about someone looking at you like a monster... Well, trust me, I've REALLY been a monster."

All the other views on that scene, all the complaints about how somehow this is saying women that can't conceive are monsters, or that BW is assessing her personal worth as being lower because she can't have children, or that Bruce is betraying Betty, or that Black Widow is just being a damsel... It's all pretty obtuse and silly to me.

Once again... They aren't in some committed relationship, Tasha at best was feeling Bruce out that they COULD start a relationship and it wouldn't have the issues that Bruce thinks it would. This was a case of some really overblown criticism, but that's par for the course with the online world of fandom these days.

That said... Yes, I think that it can be legit to criticize any work through a Feminist lens, or LGBT ect. But... Yeah it can be wildly off the mark, like condemning FURY ROAD for the 15 seconds of screen time when Max sees the girls washing themselves when he still has the mask on, and it's like... That moment is about how Max is more interested in the water as well as being this incongruous little scene in the midst of this blasted out wasteland, given what we saw up to that point.

But... Strokes and folks I suppose.

 

[Snow Queen]

I am now totally curious to read this site.

You should be, this place is a goldmine for comedy.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nah, you have me wrong or I'm just most likely not making sense. lol I did create the one thread on here bout women directors.

There are some extreme feminist out there who are brutal and reacted the wrong way towards Whedon, but I do understand the criticism there, just not the way they went about. A great rebuttal piece would have been better than a straight up attack. The director from JW said some real stupid **** regarding women directors recently, and those think pieces written at him were a fantastic way to go about.

I am totally with here. Many react in the worst possible way, and it obscures their point. But I am so sick of people going Fox News on these situations and painting the entire cause with the same brush. Not accusing you of this BN. You just showed the exact opposite really.

 

[Napoleon]

So instead of arguing against social problems, ones should just shut up and get on with it? I don't think that is how social change works in America. Never has. Whether it was throwing tea off of ships or marching through the streets in the south.

Also, do you really miss the irony of this statement? You are literally sitting here complaining about feminist. Exactly what you just complained feminist do to men.

Where did I ever say people should just shut up and go along with it? What I said was it would be much more constructive to actually take action for the issues they care about if it really matters to them. Complaining on the Internet only gets you so far. I feel like you're misinterpreting my arguments and putting words in my mouth to make me look like the bad guy.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The uproar over BW in AOU was dumb because... They aren't IN a relationship. They aren't sleeping together, or dating or anything. She is saying, "Hey... Maybe we can be together? And if you are worried about children... Well that can't happen. If you are worried about someone looking at you like a monster... Well, trust me, I've REALLY been a monster."

All the other views on that scene, all the complaints about how somehow this is saying women that can't conceive are monsters, or that BW is assessing her personal worth as being lower because she can't have children, or that Bruce is betraying Betty, or that Black Widow is just being a damsel... It's all pretty obtuse and silly to me.

Once again... They aren't in some committed relationship, Tasha at best was feeling Bruce out that they COULD start a relationship and it wouldn't have the issues that Bruce thinks it would. This was a case of some really overblown criticism, but that's par for the course with the online world of fandom these days.

That said... Yes, I think that it can be legit to criticize any work through a Feminist lens, or LGBT ect. But... Yeah it can be wildly off the mark, like condemning FURY ROAD for the 15 seconds of screen time when Max sees the girls washing themselves when he still has the mask on, and it's like... That moment is about how Max is more interested in the water as well as being this incongruous little scene in the midst of this blasted out wasteland, given what we saw up to that point.

But... Strokes and folks I suppose.

I saw the movie twice, and I have tried to break down the scene. But honestly I am still not sure what the intent is. But that she calls herself a monster in such close proximity to mentioning not being able to have kids, leaves an ocean of questions on what the intent is. Whether they are in a committed relationship or not really isn't relevant. We are talking about how Widow views herself as person, as a woman.

 

[Rocketman]

I mean, is it not safe to assume that action isn't necessarily a genre for females as much as it is for males?

How many romantic comedies are there exclusively made for men? How about just romantic films? How about Nicholas Sparks films catered mostly to guys?

We can get as silly as you want. Why don't we have any R-rated Pixar films? Where are all the comedies that take place during the Holocaust? If there isn't a huge audience, there isn't a huge audience.

Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey and Magic Mike were not made for males at all, and I don't think the guys give a damn.

If they thought a Black Widow movie would make money, they'd make it. They think in terms of dollars, not in terms of what's PC. We're demanding companies to make products that won't sell... That's not how business works.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where did I ever say people should just shut up and go along with it? What I said was it would be much more constructive to actually take action for the issues they care about if it really matters to them. Complaining on the Internet only gets you so far. I feel like you're misinterpreting my arguments and putting words in my mouth to make me look like the bad guy.

This is what you said:

I don't have a problem with feminism when it comes preaching independence and personal responsibility. For example Reese Witherspoon wanted to see more women focused films, so she founded her own production company to do just that. She didn't complain or berate anyone, she put her money where her mouth was and did what she wanted to actually help her cause. THAT is positive feminism, and I wish more would follow her example. But most of the feminists I see just simply hate men and do nothing to actually improve women's lives, they just sit around and complain, and it irks me to no end.

Any time you mention women arguing their feminist POV, you say they are complaining or berating. You paint them as lazy people who just sit around and complain. Not everyone has Reese Witherspoon's money.

 

[Napoleon]

The uproar over BW in AOU was dumb because... They aren't IN a relationship. They aren't sleeping together, or dating or anything. She is saying, "Hey... Maybe we can be together? And if you are worried about children... Well that can't happen. If you are worried about someone looking at you like a monster... Well, trust me, I've REALLY been a monster."

All the other views on that scene, all the complaints about how somehow this is saying women that can't conceive are monsters, or that BW is assessing her personal worth as being lower because she can't have children, or that Bruce is betraying Betty, or that Black Widow is just being a damsel... It's all pretty obtuse and silly to me.

Once again... They aren't in some committed relationship, Tasha at best was feeling Bruce out that they COULD start a relationship and it wouldn't have the issues that Bruce thinks it would. This was a case of some really overblown criticism, but that's par for the course with the online world of fandom these days.

That said... Yes, I think that it can be legit to criticize any work through a Feminist lens, or LGBT ect. But... Yeah it can be wildly off the mark, like condemning FURY ROAD for the 15 seconds of screen time when Max sees the girls washing themselves when he still has the mask on, and it's like... That moment is about how Max is more interested in the water as well as being this incongruous little scene in the midst of this blasted out wasteland, given what we saw up to that point.

But... Strokes and folks I suppose.

In my opinion the people who complained about it were off the mark. Like I keep saying, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and not everything has some hidden agenda behind it.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I am totally with here. Many react in the worst possible way, and it obscures their point.

But I am so sick of people going Fox News on these situations and painting the entire cause with the same brush. Not accusing you of this BN. You just showed the exact opposite really.

Correctomundo!


Scorsese actually got flack for not showing the victims in Wolf of Wallstreet and focusing on the debauchery instead. I swear to gawd, even the wallstreet journal had pieces about it. That is the type of PC stuff I ain't cool with for example.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean, is it not safe to assume that action isn't necessarily a genre for females as much as it is for males?

How many romantic comedies are there exclusively made for men? How about just romantic films? How about Nicholas Sparks films catered mostly to guys?

We can get as silly as you want. Why don't we have any R-rated Pixar films? Where are all the comedies that take place during the Holocaust? If there isn't a huge audience, there isn't a huge audience.

Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey and Magic Mike were not made for males at all, and I don't think the guys give a damn.

If they thought a Black Widow movie would make money, they'd make it. They think in terms of dollars, not in terms of what's PC. We're demanding companies to make products that won't sell... That's not how business works.

Isn't the question why this is? Perhaps it has something to do with socially created norms for girls and boys? I give you the situation with Target ditching the gender sections. Why? Because a little girl who wants to play with Star Wars toys or a little boy who enjoys playing with horses shouldn't be told they are in the wrong part of a store.

I grew up watching Rambo and Gone with the Wind. Reading Batman comics and Pride and Prejudice. There is no reason any genre should be gender based other then society says it should be.

Now I wrote all this, and realized you just compared gender specific genres to rated R kid flicks and comedies based in on the Holocaust. In which case I ask, are you seriously comparing?

By the way, someone else made the Black Widow film. It made a lot of money.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Correctomundo!


Scorsese actually got flack for not showing the victims in Wolf of Wallstreet and focusing on the debauchery instead. I swear to gawd, even the wallstreet journal had pieces about it. That is the type of PC stuff I ain't cool with for example.

I found the Wolf of Wall Street complaints rather funny, considering I don't ever remember anyone complaining about the same thing in Scorsese's gangster flicks. He isn't glamorizing that world not in the least.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I found the Wolf of Wall Street complaints rather funny, considering I don't ever remember anyone complaining about the same thing in Scorsese's gangster flicks. He isn't glamorizing that world not in the least.

 

[Napoleon]

This is what you said:



Any time you mention women arguing their feminist POV, you say they are complaining or berating. You paint them as lazy people who just sit around and complain. Not everyone has Reese Witherspoon's money.

But even if they don't have that money, they can still make a change. Fund projects that reflect their views. Support the stuff that caters to their interests. That way, when the industry sees a demand for what they like, they will make more of it, because that's how economics works, among other things. And just to clear up something I said earlier, they are 100% entitled to write about whatever they want, as it's a good way to spread the word, but I also have the right to be critical of it, since it's available for public viewing. I was rather unfair on that point.